Oh my! I see several of us are posting at once--speaking over each other in this conversation! Ha! I can imagine the conversation if we were all in the same room, talking and laughing together!
OH yes! But the wow in it all! I knew you would come through with good scripture back up, I could only repeat what I have heard! I also want to clarify that I dont believe that just because we all know about Jesus etc means he will be here this instant because "a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day' to the Lord God so we do not really know exactly when. Plus even if it were in that instant it would not mean right now as we do not know if someone in the deepest darkest Frozen most parts of the earth have heard.... or the loner in the middle of the city.... so sence we only know in part....
I like that! The "wow" in it all! They were probably quoting Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. The gospel of the kingdom is in a different format, you might say, than the gospel written in the stars and in the rest of nature--though they agree with each other, being "written" by the same Author. The one format is clearly seen by every person. The other format (the Word) has to be preached to them or read by them, because the specifics of Christ's incarnation, death, & resurrection are not quite as readily apprehended as the fact (from nature) that there is a benevolent God. I think we know the missionaries your pastor knows, Ava Rose! They'd like to be the ones to preach the "gospel of the kingdom" in that nation where the last person resides who has not heard the Word yet. And they'd like to be the ones to lead that person to the Cross. Some day someone will, they say. And they'd like to be the ones. 'Just adding this to your and Amie's discussion to say that there are others who read that verse the same way.
Very interesting thread! I have never heard of the view that a person has heard of salvation through Christ simply by observing nature. I find it difficult to believe that mere observance of nature as seen through the eyes of a non-believer would suddenly create the impulse to completely understand that they have been shown God and to suddenly believe in God, a concept that would require the introduction of such thoughts by man. Not saying that there wouldn't be the questions of "how did this arrive here?", "why are we formed this way?", "Is there something besides this existence that I've been taught?" etc... I just don't feel that the mere acknowledgment of nature is going to fulfill the obligations of "knowing of Christ and who He is and accepting His death on the cross for our sins as the only way of salvation and entering into the kingdom of Heaven". Gazing at a beautiful sunset does not tell a person the "who, what, where and how" of the plan of salvation as described in the Bible. I guess you could say that I am in the "same camp" as those missionaries who seek to physically tell the inhabitants of the earth of Christ's saving grace. I am not certain of scriptures off the top of my head, but I am fairly certain that there are passages which describe the fate of those people who have not heard the salvation plan. I think it deals directly with the requirements of salvation being heard and understood, not just the acknowledgment that a "higher being" exists. It is my understanding that when a person dies who has never been told of the way of salvation, they will receive the opportunity to choose before judgment on their lives occurs. It is my understanding that when a baby who is incapable of understanding the way of salvation dies, it is not held accountable as those who are older and have heard are... hmmm....think I'm gonna need to call my Dad (preacher) and have him dig out those scripture references Interesting, very interesting...thanks for asking this question
What I was saying about nature is that Scriptures tell us that God reveals Himself through His creation. Just like the man who approached, um, someone's DH in Mexico. He saw God in nature and therefore sought to know more about Him. God answered his seeking by sending the missionaries to him. However, sometimes God uses other means to answer those who seek Him. The point was just that nature (creation) prompts all to seek Him.
WARNING: The following statements are MY OPINION ONLY. They are NOT "scriptural" by any means! So please no one make any great theological stuff out of them, lol!!! Everyone has a "God-shaped Vacume". It's an emptyness inside that ONLY God can fill. I think part of the proof of God's existance is the "feeling" of that "something more" that is in every person. Where did that come from and why is it there? To drive up to our Creator. Yes, nature does point us toward God. No, it might not tell us all the details, but it can cause a person to search for God. And I believe that God will make Himself known to those that seek after Him.
Ahhh, that makes sense, that it would cause a person to really take into consideration that there might be more to how things are and work than what he/she has been taught. I agree with you Jackie - I also think people have an inherent need to "fill the void" with something. Unfortunately as we all know, it's not always God they choose.
Yes. Amen, Jackie! And what you said is Scriptural! We are made triune, in the image of God--body, soul, and spirit. But we better not say more, lest we make it theological! (Just kidding! I agree with you!)
I love you gals! This is so fun to read! We are all so careful! How totally Christian! I mean that in the true sence, very Christ like to care so much about explaining and carying how someone accepts the truth!
I am really enjoying this thread as well. Come to think about it, I am enjoying this whole site. We have had some interesting discussions.
:?:I have a question may sound like a dumb question. But, in your opinion what happens to those who proclaim to be good Christians, with whom are preachers but in their day to day life they react to everyday situations and other people in distrust, anger and hatred?:?: :?o they go to heaven because they spend a lot of their time preaching to others but not practicing what they preach? What happens to them?:?: I am not ever really comfortable talking religion, especially since you ladies seem to be so well versed in the Bible and its verses, kinda intimidating, so please understand. (((( ))))
Katie, please don't feel intimidated!!! No dumb questions! There is only one way to get to heaven. That's from asking Jesus to take control of your life and accepting His death on the cross as payment for your sins. As you say, there are preachers who say one thing but do the opposite. I cannot judge their heart, but God can. God knows whether they have accepted His gift or not. But just because a person is a pastor doesn't make him automatically saved.
I don't think it's a dumb question at all. First I think that it is important to remember that preachers are just as human as we are. They are going to sin, just like we do. One of my closest friends is our preachers wife. She says there are some who put preachers up on a pedestal and expect them to be perfect. Others put them under a microscope and dissect their lives- telling everyone about it. It is a daily pressure. However, scripture does tell us in Matthew 7:21-23 This is for anyone who calls themself a Christian.
Thre are many people who claim to be Christians, who have no personal relationship with Christ. Being a good person or doing good works does not make one a Christian. As Jackie said, we cannot judge others, only God can.
I have a question along this line of thought, the ones who claim to be Christian. My husband goes to church each week with Jeannie and me, but in no way lives a Christian life. Not one scintilla. How are we supposed to handle this? Yeah, yeah- pray for him, I know. But, what are we supposed to say to our kids when we're trying to maintain a Christian home with Christian standards and their dad treats that Christianity like a game you play from 10:30 Sunday morning until noon? I really hope to get answers on this.
That's a really tough one. Really tough. Start by not only praying for him, but praying for wisdom for yourself and clarity for your child(ren). When my boys ask why DH (or even me) do something that we tell them they shouldn't do, I start the question game. For instance, I have a bad habit of saying "Oh my G*d". I'm getting better, but it's still a problem for me. When Eli said it and I told him he wasn't allowed, he called me out on it. So I asked him, "do you think it makes God happy when Mommy says that?" Of course he said no. So I asked, "Do you think Mommy should do that?" No again. "Do you think it would make God happy if you did that?" No That takes the focus off of whatever DH or I have done (not that we don't work on our issues so they stop being issues, but you know what I mean...) without saying that it's ok or even that it's bad. We let the boys come to their own conclusions by comparing our actions to the Word and letting them decide if we were in the wrong or not. I don't know if that will work with your Dc or not. Just how we handle it without coming out and saying, "Daddy is wrong".
Lol-, I used to say OMG, too. One day it felt filthy, though, and I just stopped. What I'm having to deal with- among other things- is daddy swearing, including misusing God's name. Jeannie knows it's wrong. She knows I have to be beyond mad to even say the 'd' word. I feel like a hypocrite taking her to church each week, setting standards, then her dad pops stuff like that off and it's supposed to be okay. There's never an apology or even an admission that it was wrong. At least if I say something I apologize.
well, today I had a lady visitor from the church I have been attending. Her husband was a preacher for 30 years. I think he's passed on now but anyhow, I had the chance to ask her this quesion myself. She told me the same thing you all have been saying. I am SO glad that I have this group to come to. You are all so helpful. I enjoy the Christlike attitudes you have. It's so encouraging and uplifting. Thank you again Angela
