How much slack do you give your children over their religious beliefs? My dd, who is 12, will be 13 in the spring, has a really odd religious belief that says no tv, movies, computer, etc on Sundays. This has really interfered with our family life. As a family, we like to go to movies. However, dh works during the week and the children have school so I do not like to go during the week. Then, since we live in a major metropolitan area, the theaters are overcrowded on Friday nights and Saturdays. Therefore, Sundays are the best times for us. DD wants to control us and try to force us to go to movies on school nights, which is against OUR rules. We say no recreational TV and such before 6pm on school days and bed by 10pm and we would not go to the movie without dh so that removes weekdays anyway as he works. I had forgotten about this horrible rule of hers and this is how today went. We returned some things and I offered to buy her a new Playstation 2 game from the used game store. On the way home, we stopped off at my parents house where my elderly (over 80 yrs old) uncle had just come to town and is here for today only. He lost his wife, our aunt recently to cancer. My mother is disabled and got a Wii for Christmas on the suggestion of her physical therapist. My mom wanted to show this to our uncle so we asked DD to please start the Wii and get it going for us so he can see. My DD said she could not. I assumed she meant she did not know how. So we decided to wait until neices got there to do it. By the time neices arrived, we were leaving. Once home, I told everyone that I really wanted to take the whole family to "Marley and Me." I had had this planned for over a week as the last of our out of town company left today. DD informed me, quite briskly, that she did not want to go. I was shocked. I thought the movie looked good. DH said if she did not want to go, there was not much point in trying to take the rest of the kids as if she thinks she won't like it, they probably won't either. So we gave up on it. Then, planet Earth came on and I wanted her to see the show and she said she could not. I figured she was tired and headed to bed or in the middle of playing her game or something as she was upstairs when I called for her. Then, tonight, I saw that video game I bought her on the table. I asked her if she did not like it. She said "I didn't try it, Re MEM ber, this is Sunday." In an instant, I realized the entire day of her refusing to do stuff is because of this weird religion she is professing to be in. There is not a name for it, she does not have friends in this religion so she is not getting ideas from them. Now I am mad that my uncle, who recently lost his wife, did not get to see the Wii game my disabled mother exercises with because she would not help. (we have a Wii, but we just got it so I was unsure how to get everything going, but she has been playing at her grandparents for a short bit now as my mother got it as a gift before Christmas). I realized that our entire family cancelled our plans to see that movie over her odd religion. I am offended and upset that she controlled our day like this. I want my children to feel free to pursue their beliefs. It is not like she is practicing voodoo or anything. But her weird beliefs are interferring with our family life and with even with her education. If she has homework that involves the computer, she says she cannot do it on Sundays. This does not inspire her to get it done before the weekend. What will happen next year when we plan to add a couple online courses to her program? Does her weird religion control what curriculum we are allowed to use? Her religious Sunday boycott includes educational games (like Rosetta Stone and Word Roots). Often times, weekends are the best time to get in the extras. But her Sunday religious boycott does not allow it. I don't know if I should let it go. It is not a phase and it has controlled our lives for so long. I cannot even have her and her older brother babysit on Sundays because if anyone turns on a TV, she must leave the room. She pretty much spends Sundays hiding in her room or any room that has no TV or computer because she says she cannot look at the screen. Does anyone know if a religion that has this rule? Would you just omit her from all family activities and then ground her or otherwise punish her for schoolwork that is not completed? She has schoolwork during the week, but when she does not finish, I have been giving her the weekend to make up what she missed. If this is not completed before her Sunday shutdown time, should I just implement a punishment that starts Monday? Oh..to add to this..she has tried to push her restriction all the way back to 6pm on Saturdays saying it is so close to Sundays. Should we just tell her she will miss the movies and the rest of us will go without her? I hate to do that as it hardly makes it a family thing when she is pulling this. Please help me with this. This is not a phase. This has gone on at least a year. Thank you.
Wow. (Hugs) It kind of sounds like your dd has a big ego trip on this control she has over your family because of her beliefs. While, I like to see kids that age explore to find themselves, it sounds like your dd does it to see the control she can have over your family. Maybe you should decide to just let her see what it's like not to include her or bend over backwards to accommodate her and her beliefs. Tell her your sorry that she can't join you for family time, you'll miss her but you understand that she's not available. But it's not fair to her siblings for them to have to wait on her to be available and that she knows the family weekday rules so therefore you'll have to go ahead with your weekend plans. I'm sorry about your dd, really I am. I think I'd go nuts if my 14 year old did something like that to us.
I think it's less about religion and more about testing control. Religion isn't simply making up some rules. It's about rituals, shared beliefs, community, outreach, etc. Your daughter may have some beliefs she's exploring but it's not religion. Maybe incorporating some religious studies into your homeschooling, researching why certain religions have days of rest and what they entail, would be helpful. Another approach I'd take is to question her about her idea of Sunday. Why does it have to be Sunday? What's the idea behind not doing it on Sunday? Is it a day of rest? (Is TV not restful?) Is it a day of piety? What rituals does she observe and what is the reasoning behind them? If this is affecting your family then your family needs a detailed explanation of what her beliefs are. And she needs to be able to think critically about her beliefs and be able to defend them. It may be that this idea of religion is a cover for her needing some space, physical and intellectual, of her own. If that's part of the problem, just let her have the space. If she wants to leave the room whenthe TV is on, that's fine. If she wants a day free of schoolwork, that's fine too. On the schoolwork, it might be useful to read about how people prepare for a day of rest, especially Orthodox Jews. If that day is truly important then people don't simply leave stuff undone. They make an extra effort to ensure everything is done before the rest and then prepare for the day by cooking meals, doing chores, etc. on the days before. If you're expected to respect her Sunday off then she should understand she needs to finish everything she needs to do by Saturday. Anytime on Saturday. "Close to" Sunday is not Sunday. So maybe your best recourse is to treat her day seriously. But that means questioning it and making her plan and prepare for it. But also to treat the beliefs of everyone else in the house with the same respect and demand that of her.It's a two-way street.
As a Christian, I am often asked to show biblical references to back up my beliefs--so why not ask her to do the same? If this is a religion that she truly believes in, then ask her for some documentation to go along with what she professes.
I was going to say much the same as Dawn. If this is something she really wants to take seriously, than you should take it seriously, too... but make sure she realizes that it doesn't mean she can shirk her responsibilities. If she can't do schoolwork on Sundays, than she needs to be responsible for making sure the week's work is finished by Saturday evening. If it's not, there need to be some sort of consequences. I wouldn't plan all of your family activities around this new belief. If there's something that can be done on Saturday or during the week instead, than I would do so in order to have the whole family enjoy... but if there's something that can only be done on Sunday, I wouldn't cancel it (like the movie situation). Since she's old enough (I'm assuming) to stay home alone for a couple of hours, I don't think it would be terrible of you to take the other kids out to do something fun without her. It would be a good lesson... if she's really serious about this belief, she'll have to learn sometime that having "unconventional" beliefs like that sometimes mean having to go against the grain in today's society, missing out on fun stuff, etc.
I agree with Angie. Let her enjoy her new religion. You and your family cheerfully oblige, but do NOT go out of your way to accomodate her. Don't berate her or conjure up a conversation about it. Ignore it for the most part and when she wants to, she'll talk about it. Go to the movies and leave her home. So, she won't do homework on Sundays. If you have a consequence for it not being done, apply it. Don't give her the satisfaction of letting it control your lives. Let her see that the rest of you are livng as usual and she can either be a part of the family or not. If you show frustration or force her to cut it out, you may be in for more problems. Don't worry. I think it is a phase. She's 12. Soon puberty, boys, and makeup will take over - making you wish she was back in her religion phase, lol.
I completely agree with Dawn on this. I think it's a test on control as well, and if you don't cater to her, she will begin to think seriously about the value of this "belief".
Well, I saw your other post first, so I know she felt coerced by her gma into making that vow and following through on it has become important to her, for her fear of going to hell. One thing I noticed is that you said this wasn't a new thing, she's been doing this for a year now. So why was it that you were "shocked" to find out she didn't want to go to this movie on a Sunday? To me that's disregarding what you already knew was something important to her! I don't mean that rudely, I just mean, your whole message was about how weird your dd and her beliefs are and how inconvenient it was for you and the family. I agree that it IS inconvenient when the whole family doesn't hold the same belief! We've dealt with stuff like that ourselves. But I also would feel proud of her! YES, proud! You have raised a daughter who has found some conviction that she feels is important, and is standing by that, despite the frustration and anger of her parents/family/others! Jesus himself said that rough times would come, and that following God was more important than family, even! I agree with the others--work with this in a kind and accepting way. It's sooo very important to your dd right now, I wouldn't want to break her spirit! She needs understanding and support right now! And, as you now know why she is doing this, I'd also (as others said) keep her from ever being alone with gma again!
I think you've gotten some great advice! I'm a very different religion than my family, and while I didn't have it when I was growing up, it can make things difficult at times. I think you should find out as much as you can about this religion and be interested in it (that doesn't mean you have to follow it). That way you can understand why your daughter does the things she does...but ALSO make sure she isn't pulling the wool over your eyes so to speak. If the religion says "no TV on Sunday" then she can't just "make up" that she wants to start it at 6:00 on Saturday. By knowing about what she's doing you can help her follow it and respect her beliefs. When it comes to religion, usually things are very specific. She may be trying to follow the religion but also using it to control you because you don't know about it. Once you know the rules that game is up! Also, you don't want her doing anything weird with the religion. Knowledge is power. I agree, if she doesn't want to see a movie on Sunday she should not be forced to. But neither should your family have to re-arrange their schedule around her. And of course religion is NEVER an excuse to shirk your responsibilities. I've never heard of a religion that encourages that! Sometimes teenagers want to be different on purpose. It makes them feel like they are doing their own thing. By letting her do this and respecting her...you may be surprised that all of a sudden the new religion has lost its appeal. If not, be proud your daughter is thinking outside the box!
After reading your other post about why she is doing it--- grandma convincing her she'd go to Hell if she doesn't follow through on a promise--- I'd recommend letting her talk to a pastor/preacher/priest to help reassure her that she isn't going to Hell if she watches TV. There are many churches that now have children's ministers who would be able to talk to her on her own level. Chances are, your daughter will feel more confident in walking away from the promise if she's told it's OK to by someone who she views as authoritative on the subject. And I agree with the others---- limit your MIL's contact with the kids and warn the kids up-front that she isn't in her right mind.
I did not read all the posts so please forgive me if this has been addressed. If this was my own daughter and she made this commitment to honor the Lord, then I would support her and be thankful that she is willing to make such strong conviction at such a young age. Who is to say that she has not been led by the Lord to do this and He is preparing her heart for even greater things? Now as to how that interferes with your family, she must learn that her beliefs/commitments may not be shared by everyone else, so she is going to be left out of some things. That is just part of this type of commitment: sacrificing to honor the Lord. Part of her commitment should also be that she is willing to prepare for each Sunday by having her other obligations completed.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS or Mormon church) teaches that we are to keep the Sabbath day holy. The church does not provide a direct list of do/do nots, because it is left up to interpretation, but the general broad guidelines taught include: -not working on Sundays unless you are in mandatory (ie emergency-service type) fields (since crime, injury, etc don't take the Sabbath off) -limiting recreational activities to those that are spiritually uplifting/God-focused - some feel this means no TV or video games on Sunday, some do not, again this is up to individual interpretation -not buying or selling on Sunday Again, there is no straight-out list of do/do not because we do not want to become like the Pharisees, but we are taught to prayerfully determine if what we do on Sunday will bring us closer to God. The idea being, of course, that the Sabbath is His day, and we should dedicate it to His work. From your previous post, it sounds more like trouble with your MIL, and probably not Mormon in origin, but you did ask if anyone knew of a religion that taught this. The Jewish faith, of course, is similarly restrictive to Sabbath-day activities, but that would be Saturday, not Sunday. ****** What would I do? Well, since I'm in the nonrecreational/commercial Sabbath activities, I am obviously biased. I tried flipping it in my mind - what if my children at that age wanted to engage in family activities, but that wouldn't work because that would press me to do something against my religious beliefs. I will say that my (non-LDS) mother puts a lot of pressure on me to engage in activities I would prefer not to do on the Sabbath, and that I felt as though she felt what I believed in was not important and thus that I was not important. I would say, as far as religious efforts go, that as long as she is consistent in this and is not using it as an occasional manipulation tool, there should be no harm in respecting her decision. She sounds old enough to be left at home alone during family outings. You said she has been doing this for some time, so it sounds like it is a realistic determination and not a "I don't want to go out right now" thing, but only you can say for certain. *********** Please note to all Christians who disagree that this is not intended as a "why don't you" or judgment call but as a simple factual explanation of what we believe. :angel: SG
