THIS IS NOT A DEBATE OVER CREATIONISM VS EVOLUTION, THIS IS ABOUT RESPECTING EACH OTHERS BELIEFS AND LISTENING TO ONE ANOTHER, PLEASE DO NOT USE THIS THREAD TO START A DEBATE, THANK YOU!!!! Here is the problem. I grew up in the public schools and DH in Catholic schools so both of us were only ever taught evolution. So, all I ever was taught about evolution was that those who do not believe in it are just crazy religious zealots with seriously mentally deplete conspiracy theory issues, just like my dh was taught. We were both taught growing up that the only people who do not believe in evolution are of the variety that think that the trip to the moon was a hoax and that the sky is just a painting type people. Then I started homeschooling. I learned more about faults in evolution. I researched it and found that much of the holes in the theory of evolution really did exist. Now I have grown to believe that evolution is not real. I feel that this is a case of a bunch of arrogant scientists who have to feel like they have the answers to everything, including the origins of life (but still cannot cure a simple headache or common cold let alone cancer). I think the origins of life is just something we do not know. So I guess that makes me a creationist. I think creationism is fully possible but do not believe in evolution at all anymore. SO, I let dh teach what he wants to the children and I teach what I want. I respect his beliefs and those of others, but I feel it should go both ways. He is not interested at all in why I changed my mind. Fine, he does not have to be, but then, like in an true debate, he should not try to debate it. A debate is not where one person loudly dictates something or mocks the other person. That it just called a joke or harrassment or disrespect. I am fine with not discussing my beliefs. But dh will bring it up. Then he won't give me a chance to defend myself and he will start laughing and being animated and saying stuff like I believe the sky is a painted tapestry. He started telling the children to turn in their physics and astronomy books because none of it is real. ha ha ha ha. OK...I just sat patiently. There came a point where he was just so far out there that there was no point in talking about it. After he left, I explained to the children about how it is important to not mock other people's beliefs and their religions and so on. DH had stormed out of the room because he told me he cannot stand how I am. By how I am, he does not mean I was saying or doing anything wrong. It was stictly as I have described. DH is a die hard athiest now, which is a change from how he was just a few years ago. He knew I was a Christian when he met me and we even used to do church together and other such things. (I know why he has had a change, but that is not the point of this post). Anyway, I think I handled it just fine. It is just so frustrating though. We were supposed to go to the movie "Adam" tonight and I had been wanting to go since I heard about it but now he is so mad at me that he is in his office stewing over it so I don't think we are going.
Ummmm, why's he mad at YOU? Sounds like he acted badly, not you. I don't have anything helpful to say; I'd probably have smacked him for belittling me in such a juvenille and hostile way IN FRONT OF THE KIDS! I've got outrage for you, but no wisdom.
A couple of things might be helpful: 1) Terminology, just so you're both talking about the same thing. Evolution explains how complex life forms emerged from simple life forms. It does not address the question of origin of life. From your discussion above, it sounds like this was an issue, so maybe it's something worth noting. 2) Our Christian faith rests solely on what Christ has done for us and how we respond in faith. It doesn't depend one iota on what we believe about evolution, etc., so we can't judge faith based on such topics. In all honesty, I can understand why someone would not respect a view of science that they believe is wrong. It would be like you being asked to respect someone's view that the sun orbits the earth. In the realm of science, most things are black and white, right or wrong. In that sense, science is not like our faith. Scientific conclusions can be tested by evidence; faith is quite different. It's fair to expect someone to respect your faith - but it's also important to separate faith from all the peripheral things we add to it. The issue, though, is all about attitude. For sure, we men can be stubborn and unduly direct and can say things in a far more critical manner than is justified or meant. I do it all the time - and regret it afterwards. Personally, I'd suggest you explain how hurt you feel about being ridiculed in front of the children, because your husband may not realize quite how he came across. I hope I'm not guilty of the same fault - coming across insensitively - in putting these points across, and I hope you have the opportunity to discuss and resolve this matter quickly.
sounds like to me that he has some problems with himself, you said that he changed his beliefs from a yr ago. maybe he is haveing a "spiritual" battle with himself and things he is hearing from your teaching is getting to him. I don't have any advice to give you but i do think you handled it well, all things said. There is no way in talking to a person when the are so bent out of shape with things. Praying for you!
I do not argue with people who really believe something. I do respect their rights to their faith. As far as science goes, I tend to be better educated than the average person in many areas, including of science. So, someone might present a belief they have, but their reasonings or proofs are faulty. In the field of statistics, you can often tear down a study to show the fault that would give a margin of error. Very little that is "proven" is actually proven. Much of it has to do with controls and other times, it has to do with certain assumptions of facts going in to the study/experiments that could be faulty in the first place, thereby, making the entire premise wrong before the "proof" is developed. If someone really believed the sun revolved around the Earth and it did not harm me or them or anyone else for them to believe it, I would let it go. It is good to let it go often times, rather than to fight to try to prove to the other guy that you are smarter, better, the superior one, the one who is right. Besides, what if the sun did revolve around the earth? Ever do any studies where you attempt to look at something from a completely different perspective? Try to find ways that physically, one could claim that the sun revolves around the earth. I am not saying I believe that, but I am saying...I try to be open minded. Sometimes, the right thing to do is walk away rather than trying to tear the other person down as an idiot for believing what they believe.
I'm going to try not to bust out my /b/ folder and simply state that just because you don't "believe" in evolution doesn't mean your beliefs are in any way more correct.
Mom of a few, I must say the first thing that struck me about your post (about blew me over, actually) was that your dh was taught evolution in a Catholic school! I mean taught is as the only thing, not just a 'some people believe...' thing. But now that I am over that shock, I will say that I am sorry your dh is treating you so poorly in front of your children. I would suggest picking a good time and speaking the truth in love to him about that. Ask him to be respectful of you in front of others, especially your kids. I thought you using that as a teachable moment for you kids was great, BTW. You need to pray for him and get others to pray also, even if you ask it as an unspoken request out of respect for him. It sounds like he is having a crisis of faith. I would also pray that God will help guide you in teaching your children and that He would soften their hearts to the truth and protect them from the lies of the enemy (meaning Satan, not your husband . Hang in there and keep teaching your dc the truth about God while living in loving submission to your husband and He will bless that. [1) Terminology, just so you're both talking about the same thing. Evolution explains how complex life forms emerged from simple life forms. It does not address the question of origin of life. From your discussion above, it sounds like this was an issue, so maybe it's something worth noting.] Well, there is macro evolution and micro evolution. I think she is referring to macro.
Yikes Momofafew. This must be hard for you guys. Here are my thoughts. He's really frustrated. He loves you and to him the idea that you don't accept evolution is a huge disapointment. He can't understand how someone with half a brain could be snookered into discounting all the evidence and believing something because the Bible says so. I'm using that kind of language because I sort of think that's what is going on inside his head. I don't think the anger is so much about evolution but about his expectations of you. So how do you deal with that? I think the first step would be to sit down with him and tell him you won't put up with insults anymore. If his position on the matter of evolution is grounded in evidence and reason then he should be able to talk to you rationally and calmly. Second, tell him that he isn't to insult you in front of the kids again. That is really damaging. Then I think I might open up the matter by asking him to teach the kids and by sitting down with you when you're choosing curriculum. He may feel at a real disadvantage with you. Here you are teaching the kids, picking what they read, etc. and he's being slowly moved to the position of the wrong-headed outsider. If he feels the physics and astronomy texts are bad maybe he could supplement with some books or activities of his choice. One thing I'd also look at is my own attitude. I know you said you remained calm but your comments about "arrogant" scientists and scientists not being able to cure headaches and cancer (false BTW. Aspirin, A.S.A and ibu profen can cure a headache and many people now have their cancers cured. Thank scientists for that.) display an attitude just as dismissive as your husband's. Think maybe that he picks up on that? That his yelling is as much an attempt to break through your attitude as your calm is an attempt to break through his? He won't listen to you, would you listen to him? Consider that he may not have been snookered by scientists and public education but may have intelligent, well-reasoned opinions of his own? Take the "sky as painted tapestry," question. He has an excellent point. A YEC view undermines all we know about the speed of light and therefore, everything in the night sky. Sit down and ask him to explain that comment to you, the science behind it so you can understand what he meant by it. Open the door so he can share with you. But keep in mind, you're the one with the power in this situation because you're teaching the kids. So it may be up to you to open up, be curious about his views and invite him into the homeschooling.
The Catholic church's position on evolution is clear, The only place I've ever really seen a lot of Catholic creationists are on homeschooling boards. I've heard the odd comment about a Catholic school teaching creationism but if they are it's contrary to the position of the Vatican. The position of the Catholic church would probably be best summed up as theistic evolution.
The stuff I said about being unable to cure common colds or cancer was not during this conversation. He basically sat there and did 99% of the talking telling the children that I believed that the sky is just a tapestry painting and so on, even though I have never said such a thing and told him many times over that that is not true in the past. The physics and astronomy books are mostly secular. The only one I have is Apologia's Elementary Astronomy book for the small children, and I do not even know if he has seen that one. The rest is all DK, Usborne for the younger children (very secular) and the older children have secular books too 100% ..like used college textbooks and other books that just looked good. Right now, my 14 yr old is reading a book on Stephen Hawkings. DH says to get rid of them all as a way of mocking me. He claims I don't even believe the planets exist. He was the one going off the deep end making fun of me. This was not a 2 way conversation at all. This was about him picking on me and mocking me and then getting angry. I barely even defended myself other than to say stuff like that is not true and I never said that and so on.
I feel so bad for you *HUGS*. So sorry this happened to you, and the kids had to see it. This creation vs evolution is one kind of debate where there are no winners, only losers...
Coming from a similar situation except that we both believe in creation; but one of us is old-earth and the other young-earth. I see it as a wonderful chance to teach our children the sides of both and to make their own decision. DH is adamant that I am wrong and need to teach the children only his point of view. The children and I don't even dare touch on any type of science when he is home as it leads to huge outbursts on his part. It's almost as if he is so insecure on his belief that he only feels better by putting us down. Could that be what is going on with your husband? I did enjoy my dd's comment last week during one of dh's outbursts; "Dad, does it really matter how old the earth is as long as we agree that God created it?". He didn't have an answer to that.
creation/evolution I'd like to post a website for you, but I can't yet because I haven't been here long enough, so I will just suggest that you google Science Against Evolution. It is a website that refutes Evolution -- not a Christian or Creationist website, because it doesn't use the Bible as "proof" of anything, but simply a website that uses logic and evidence to refute claims made by evolutionists and show how illogical they can be at times, and sometimes to comment on other aspects of the argument. And with a bit of humor woven in here and there, too! They have a newsletter, which is all online for perusal now. Naturally, it can't cover every single point, but it does cover many. Enjoy!
