My husband and I for years prayerfully considered whether homeschooling was right for our family or not. The public school that our children were attending had to close down because it was in a rural area (low enrollment and small taxable area meant less state aid, etc.). When the school decided to close and consolidate with another town (25 minutes away for Preschool - 3rd grade and high school and then 35/40 minutes away for 4th - 8th graders), we thought what a perfect time to put our passion and desires into action. Our decision to homeschool came a year before we actually began. We prepared, prayed, bought curriculum, remodeled a room in our basement into an amazing classroom area. We are one quarter into homeschooling and I'm concerned that it isn't right for my dd9. She is a bright girl, got all A's in public school and is grasping the homeschool curriculum well also. However, she is a strong willed and manipulative person by nature. I recognize the fact that most kids will try and push their parents farther than they would another adult in most any area but when do you say....ok....enough. Every day, my dd is grumpy with me, short tempered, sighs and complains, throws little temper tantrums and some days has all out meltdowns. I'd like to give you an example of our day. I work part time. 30 hours a week. My two youngest children go to my parents from 7 to 1:30 pm. I pick them up and we go straight home. School begins by 2 to 2:30 pm every day. We usually get through Reading, Language Arts, Math, Science and Spelling every day and have Health on the days when the meltdowns are minimal. We're typically done with our learning time by 5:30 to 6:00 pm with some evenings coming back downstairs to finish something if needed or on a Saturday working for an hour or so to finish anything that didn't get completed during the week. My husband and I have concluded that it wouldn't matter what time of day we had our school time, our dd would still be difficult and complain. One minute she thinks she knows everything and is upset that she has to do something.....the next minute....I hear WELL I DON"T KNOW.....so she is upset because she doesn't know the answer. Ugh. It seems to always be "something" that isn't just right according to her. She is a type A personality, does better with structure and no surprises or change in schedule....typically. I told myself that if we tried it and it wasn't for us that I wouldn't let my pride interfere with doing what is right and sending her back to public school. MANY friends and family are in strong disagreement with our decision to homeschool. How do I know if this is going to get better or if she is just simply going to respond to others better than me because she is too comfortable at home where she doesn't control her emotions or words as much. I know she didn't and doesn't behave this way with others like she does with me. She got rave reviews from her public school teachers. Some people are amazed when I make comments about her behavior at home because they never see that side of her. I forgot to mention that my husband is an over-the-road truck driver, so he is gone Monday through Friday. I am basically a single parent in some respects 5 days a week. We have 3 children. DD14 freshman in public high school, dd9 who we are homeschooling and ds4 who we homeschool part time. My husband is very supportive and has the title of "Principal" with one of the grandma's being the "Superintendent". We discipline. We correct. We discuss. We take away privileges. We ground kids to their rooms. We are a christian family so we are not against using the rod of correction (fanny only and not when angry). I don't see her heart changing. Why? I know God has instilled in this particular child a strong will (like her mother....that could be the key there) for a reason. She has such amazing potential and I desperately want to instill in all of my children the love of learning. What do I do:?: Any solid advice for the discouraged? Thank you in advance for listening.
I think I could have written this! I wish I had advice but all I can say is hang in there! DS is going through the same thing and every day I feel more worn down--already. We homeschooled him K-3 and he went to a parochial school for 4th grade. Fifth grade is rough. He is a bright kid but wants to argue, complain, and not do his work. Then two seconds later is in tears because something he said he knew he doesn't. I have found relaxing the routine has helped a lot. It may take us longer during the day and sometimes we work on the weekends some and he is much more calm--for now. I have had multiple parents say it is an age issue and they will outgrow it so we wait. We have had to set very strict rules about school and when he crosses the line something WILL happen. He is late for school he goes to bed that many minutes earlier, he complains about work he goes to his room until he is willing to work, he does poor work he will redo it until it is right. Being consistant is key and letting her know that manipulation will not be tolerated is very important. Someone else will hopefully have help for you!
I thought I could have written that about 13yo ds. I don't know if I have a solution....maybe not even something that will be taken as encouragement, but I can tell you what I've learned about ds through this. He has been strong-willed his entire life. (even in the womb he would kick against your hand!) We planned on homeschooling all along but I chickened out and sent him to K at public school. He was having meltdowns and/or being stubborn at school every day. We started homeschooling him halfway through 1st grade. He then went back to ps for 2nd grade. We then homeschooled from 3rd through part of 6th grade till we moved and then put both kids in public again. He is now in 8th grade and at home. All of that background to say that it doesn't matter what building he is in or who his teacher is--he is stubborn and hates school work unless it is a subject matter that catches his interest. He does, however, now understand that he doesn't have to love it or even like it, but he has to DO it. We have been working on his overall attitude toward things. He is finally understanding that he is in control of how his life "feels", if you will. I have a notion that your dd is in that phase of the game. She will have to figure out for herself how she wants to feel during the day about school, but regardless, she still has to do it. I wouldn't give up yet. I know how hard it is when you don't know what the final outcome will be. You really haven't had her home that long. She will adjust. And there is a good chance that she will settle in and give you the same kind of work that she was giving the teachers at school. If she is a routine kind of kid, she might be trying to settle it up within herself to adapt to this big change. Another idea might be to have her do at least some of her subjects while she is at grandma's during the day. She might do better work in the morning than in the afternoon. I know it is hard for me to find motivation by the time I'm halfway through my day. I hope you are encouraged to stick with it a bit longer. Everyone needs their own time to adjust. My dd is 10yo and I know she takes a bit longer to adjust, especially when the change involves anything that affects her and her friends.
I see a few things here, some have been mentioned. Why have you concluded that? You may very well be right, but here are many factors to take into consideration here! First of all, this is a BIG change for all of you! Was she consulted about this? Did she have input into what happened? Not that you need to do what she says, cuz you don't! However, with that temperment (which is like my oldest's), she NEEDS to have some say, and NEEDS to know what's happening before it happens! My ds has ALWAYS been like that! If we didn't think ahead enough, and made a quick decision to do something, he could not handle it! If we were at the park and didn't warn him at least 5 minutes ahead of time that we were leaving, we would have to literally pick him up kicking and screaming because we hadn't given him time to process it. When we DID give him the warning, he'd be able to process it, and be fine with leaving when the time came! Another thing: Do you know her learning style? Maybe the curriculum you're using grates on her. Maybe she needs more hands-on stuff, or more workbooky type stuff. It REALLY helps to know their learning style! You can Google Learning Styles and there are some that tell you what they are. DON'T pay for a test or anything, unless you can't figure it out from what you read. Next is the time you're doing school. A LOT of people's bodies are tired about the time you're starting school. She's gotten up quite early if you're dropping them off at 7am! By the time you pick her up, she's already had a long day, and now you want her to sit and think and do schoolwork at the time her body is calling for Siesta Time! They've found that people who really do have Siesta (nap/rest) time are more productive, because it help their brains rejuvenate and be able to work better! When I'm tired, I can get crabby too! Jackie and I both have done a rest time during the day with our kids since they were tiny. The kids must have a quiet time. They don't have to sleep, they can read or do other things as long as they're quiet. YOU need that time as well! After working, you pick up the kids and come right home to begin schooling. There's no breather. If you were to take a reading time when you get home, for at LEAST 30 minutes, you may both be more ready to concentrate on schoolwork! One consideration: She's been crabby, so you expect her to be crabby. If you expect it, she will live up to your expectations! Work on a more positive outlook on things yourself, and that may help her also. (Not saying you're a crabby person, just thinking of possible ideas...) Expect positive things, and encourage every little positive thing she does, and try , as much as you can, to ignore the negative things. Every now and then when my kids were younger we'd have "family pow wows". We'd ask the kids how they were feeling about things, how their curriculum was going, etc. That sometimes opened up our eyes to problem areas. The kids weren't trying to be bad, they were frustrated, and just didn't know how to express it well. We'd walk through things, and ask them how they responded and how they thought they should have responded. My dh and I would also work through things with the kids. We'd apologize for things we did wrong, and we'd discuss how to communicate better. We also let the kids help set up the rules and consequences for disobedience. When they had a hand in those things, they understood them better. AND, since they helped set up the consquences for their actions, they couldn't say WE were the mean ones! I tell you what, once we started those family pow-wows (once a month, or less if the need arises), things got much better! The kids felt better able to communicate, knew we were listening (which is very important!) and things didn't escalate so much! I agree with what another poster said, Can your dd do some of the schoolwork at the grandparents house during the day? Then she'd feel like she's accomplished something and doesn't feel so overwhelmed with doing it all in the afternoon and evening! Are you taking time to read out loud to them? That can be "snuggle with mommy" time. Maybe with your dh gone all week, and you working, then rushing to get school done, she's missing the relaxed, fun time with mom??? Read aloud time can be a good bonding experience, then you'll have somedthing in common to talk about. Right now it's dad's work, mom's work, grandma and grandpa's house......it's all separate stuff. Find some fun, bonding things to do together outside of work and school! Another thing is, at her age/grade, and your little one's too, more hands on, family stuff is good for them! Too much bookwork, rushing to get this book done during the school year.....NOT as important as building that family relationship and encouraging a love of learning! REALLY! They often don't remember the book learning, but they will ALWAYS remember the snuggling and reading, the hot chocolate and laughing, the jumping in the leaves, the building a pyriamid out of legos or sugar cubes, the building a fort with branches, twigs and grass to see how the nomads lived, etc. THOSE are the kinds of things to do now while they are younger. That builds a strong, confident, happier base, and when they are older, and ready to hit the books more, they will do better at it because they have learned to love learning! Okay, so, my advice is to back away from the books for awhile. Think of some fun "learning" things to do--walks in the park, visit a museum, make cards for people in a retirement/nursing home and take them to the people personally, etc. She WILL be learning, and will learn more that way than pushing a bunch of book learning! I always had them do math, but I sometimes let other things slide if we were able to have an experience that would make a great memory! I did LOTS of hands-on stuff with them when they were younger, and they still know a lot of the stuff we did that way. The bookwork? Eh, not so much! Lots to think about, but hopefully it helps you see that you need to allow time for transition, and that you and she CAN do this! Some things may need to be changed up, but I think your dd sounds very intelligent and can do a wonderful job! Please let us know how things go! (Whoa, I think my answer is longer than your questions!)
Thank you all SO much for sharing your thoughts and words of wisdom. I sincerely and I mean sincerely appreciate each one of them. I am going to have to print these out and read them to my husband so that we can talk about all of these things and prayerfully consider each one and which ones to try first. I certainly want our family life to improve which is probably one of THE main reasons I personally wanted to homeschool. Thank you. I'll keep checking in and keep you posted.
Wow! some good ideas here. (I think I might borrow some myself) My younger ds who was an "angel" in ps...now at home throws fits galore! One argument involved the spelling curriculum which his beginning complaint was "It is dumb and I hate spelling." not very helpful and just made me angry. But then after a discussion...we found it was because it is tied to mistakes...you don't get to study the words...and when you miss three then you study them until the next day, he felt like I was stacking the deck against him, and he couldn't get a "good" grade. We had to have a long discussion about what our goals are. In this case, learning to spell the most words possible...rather than a good grade. I don't even keep grades except for math and attitude. Once he understood how effecient it was. he doesn't have to study 25 words he already knows half of...he can learn more words per week...well then he was on board. although on the three and out days he still gets a bit frustrated. So anyway, my point is, digging deeper might help. We also had a conversation about what the goals and expectations of home schooling was in general. I had to let the boys know that while I could tailor the lessons to them individually and make them more meaningful...that didn't mean I was the entertainment comittee and even if subjects are considered "boring" doesn't mean we are not going to learn them. I hear ya though...we are doing this same sort of exploring at our house.
Your dd needs to see her heart is wrong in God's eyes. It is coming out in her actions and her speech. Out of the abudance of the heart the mouth speaks. Let God and His word do some surgery. I can certainly point you to verses if you would like. You are her parents and her attitude needs to change. If not, she will be a teenager acting this way and then a young adult. A habit is hard to break. Writing Scripture is positive, memorizing it is good, too. I knew some teen boys who had to write the book of Proverbs as corrective measure.
We did that, in a way, Smiling Dawn. We'd talk about what happened, explain it to them, THEN have them find scriptures that dealt with that topic. That helped them see it wasn't just mom and dad disciplining them, it was truly something that God would wish them to work on! I think the other things that have been mentioned will help ease things up for her, which will help her more easily work on her heart issues!
It definitely is a "heart" issue with dd9. I told her last night as we tucked into bed that "giving up wasn't an option". I had talked to Daddy and he doesn't want us to give up. I told her that there would be some things that she will have to do whether she likes it or not but that there were other things we could change up a bit. We would figure out what works for us. I know after really listening to her that she misses playing with other kids. Youth group basketball starts tomorrow (Saturday). She'll get to be with other kids then. She does get to play some days in the late afternoon with neighborhood kids who are friends and old classmates. She has a little girl in town that she spends the night with sometimes on the weekends. But during most weeks, she is mostly with her younger brother at Grandma's during the day. She says it's "boring"....not much to do. She typically has some minor homework that she is expected to do while at Grandma's. I've been trying to really "listen" to what her complaints and objections are....and ponder over those. She wants field trips. I do know that. She has been wanting to go to the zoo since day 1. The zoo is an hour away so it isn't a quick run to the zoo but something I need to schedule time for as autumn weather has arrived where we live. We did one day talk about classroom rules. She was directly involved and was asked to come up with ideas as to how we should try and handle ourselves when we get upset/angry. Going into the bathroom and washing our face with a cool washcloth, taking a couple minute break, take deep breaths. We were but haven't yet created our own school handbook of sorts...where we sign a contract agreeing to abide by the rules we decide upon. I think maybe we should do this. We have implemented a reward system of sorts. I have a behavior chart for both of my children. For each day there are the numbers 1, 2 and 3 with a sad face and a happy face above the numbers. Basically when they act up, I circle the #1. If they act up again, I circle the #2 and so on. After 3 episodes of poor behavior, they get a sad face for the day and you lose your chance to get a sweet treat out of the snack box (fruit roll ups, a piece of candy, etc.). If you get 5 smiley faces in the week, you are allowed to pick one item out of our treasure box which contains all kinds of small fun items. So when I make a circle around a number....she has another meltdown and it then it escalates....which eventually leads to more circled numbers. Maybe I should chuck the behavior reward system?? What do you think?? I do know that another thing she has complained about multiple times is that brother gets to just "play" if you will. He gets to build with blocks or do educational computer cd's but it isn't seatwork like what she is doing so I think she thinks that is unfair. He's only 4, sharp little guy but with our limited time, my focus is getting through her lessons versus planned lessons for him. We read stories together, he does some workbooks (loves to work mazes) but his attention span isn't as long as he interrupts more, needing constant direction. He has a hard time with waiting his turn and being quiet while we finish a lesson. How do you handle multiple children when some of them are preschool age boys?
First...(((hugs))) My Kindergarden age boy does a lot of playing. His work doesn't take long. You are doing very good. I appreciate your open communication with your girl. Keep it up! I know a homeshooled family that has movie, game, video nights on Friday. Mom keeps track of attitudes and chores not accomplished during the work week. Time is taken away from thier evening of fun. And evidently it is fun. The kids, mom and dad all look forward to their Friday Night Fun! But the time is taken away from this evening by going to bed. She said sometimes they have missed the entire evening and have gone straight to bed after dinner. This works well for her family. This is something her and her dh have worked on. I am seeing family time as important. Mom and Dad working together to make it special, to make it desirable for the family. I also see her children learning to pitch in and take care of their home. A reward system is God's idea. He came up with it first. If you can come up with a way to work for your family, good! I should pipe in that my oldest dd wants field trips, too. Glad your girl will get to be with her friends. Hang in there!
Just a bit on reward charts....my ds had a very similar system when he was in public school (he's the one your dd reminds me of). Instead of circling a number, his teacher would have colored cards (0-green, 1-yellow, 2-orange, 3-red). When he would get home I'd ask him what he did that day. All he could EVER tell me was what color his card was....which was typically red. What we found with ds was that his sin was ever before him. Not that that is always bad...David was aware of the same thing and remarked about it when he was at the point of repentance. HOWEVER...ds was so focused on his perceived failure that he had no HOPE. What makes it worse is that I tend to be a sin zapper myself and I wasn't offerering him any way to repent and be forgiven in our system. So....at hubby's suggestion, I began to find ways to show him God's discipline method with us. Instead of "you broke the rule, here's your spot with permanent marker", we would deal with the heart issue of each infraction with natural consequences. (Love and Logic saved our sanity!!! whole other topic. ) We also looked for a change of heart in ds and that gave us opportunities to offer GRACE and MERCY to him. Completely changed his whole outlook on life to know that he had HOPE of repentance and forgiveness. My advice: Chuck the chart and deal with the heart.
I am curious to your working hours, is work a nessacary thing for you during the week days? Is there anyway you can schedule at least one day , say Wednesday to make it central as a normal day off so you can do feild trips? Maybe every two weeks a wednesday off for feild trip day? Then she can work hard on doing the work she has so she can get to the feild trip day.. do fun stuff, lunch out, zoo day, bring a pic nic , movie out day even! Play places... etc. Maybe grama can even watch brother so you and she can have Mother Daughter day? I found that my dd needs mom time more so as she gets older.. special time with mom no one else so we two can just be girls! lol We go to mall, or lunch or bookstores because thats where she wants to go, it is her choice day. So that could be helpful too for dd, she would have to earn it by behaving during school time, and I really would change the time she studies, give her an "Independant study" style where you give her alist of things to accomplish during the day, include fun stuff like map out grama's house, and write down what they do during the day like a log book of events. Give her time sheets to fill in the blanks on. Maybe even make a special folder for her to bring her important stuff with her... send a book too so she can read and record what she thought about the chapter she read .. allow her to be short or long on this so its really fun, let her draw pictures if she wants too You could even have her take grama for a walk if that is possible and gather leaves for a fall art project that you can work with her on, or she can do crayon rubbings to create a place mat set for you during her day. then when you see her after work focus on her a lot , Give her five minutes to tell you evvvvvvvverything in her day. then go to ds for his 5minutes. this will give them both special talk time with you and let the other one leave the room during this time if possible, maybe while ds does his need attention work you can allow her to do something extra fun since she completed work while she was "at work" at gramas!
Nicole, It sounds like you are on the right track already. The number one thing to do in a situation like this is to make it plain, "We will not quit." They'll test it, but once they are convinced, it greatly reduced manipulation. About the 4yo, ask your 9yo, "Oh, okay, so please tell me what work you did when you were four that I have forgotten to have your brother do..." And guess what he'll be doing when he's nine? I would recommend that you do any actual teaching in the afternoon when you are home, but that seatwork be taken to grandma's. That would free up time in the afternoon to get out to some homeschool activities, which would probably help everyone's attitude, even your own! Have you joined a homeschool support group? I think it is critically important to keep homeschooling hard headed children. My oldest son was the hardest, but now that he's off at college, I am so thankful for his strong will now that it is submitted to God. Stick it out! Much love, Melanie Young
Are you doing workbooks or typical seat work? Believe it or not - non-traditional school methods can ease the transition a TON!! Unit studies are great..... books can be read which are educational. Sometimes it can be super hard to admit the curriculum choice you made is wrong for your child (believe me - I seem to do this a lot - I had a revelation yesterday if you go to my homeschool blog about that - LOL)..... Example - my dd (3rd year homeschooler) - came to me a week ago and told me she just didn't enjoy the schoolwork anymore, she wanted to go back to what we did last year which was Ambleside Online. Not every child will tell you they need to go back!! My son didn't - yet when I gave him Ambleside stuff yesterday he jumped up out of bed, hugged me and kissed me!! Already in 1 day we see and feel a lot of stress lifted from our family and school. You might need time to "deschool" for awhile.... get out of the mind-set of "this is how school is done" Find out what SHE likes and work a schedule around THAT..... my daughter likes dolphins...and now that she has found out there is a pink one LOOK OUT
I would make sure your curriculum choices and her learning style match up. From what you said it sounds like she is pretty social. Have you thought of live classes? Have you considered letting her pick out a unit study?
These are all amazingly great things to think about and consider. Again, thank you all. I have as much to work on as my dd. My mom and husband are being very helpful as was my pastor's wife this week in reminding me that I am the one in control and she will have to learn to obey. I cannot and am not doing anyone any good by allowing her to slide by with attitude and temper tantrums. Basically it boils down to tough love for a while until she realizes that mom and dad are serious about her behavior....in everything....not just school. She spent the rest of the evening / night in her room. No tv, no nothing except her with her thoughts. She was told to write 25 times "I will honor and obey my parents." She chose to add 5 extra sentences at the bottom that said....I'm sorry and that's true. She apologized that night when I tucked her into bed about what she said and how she acted. I know she will figure it out but it is as hard on me as it is on her I think. My mom tried to explain to me that I do NOT have to feel guilty for disciplining her. It is my job to correct and teach her. One good thing my pastors wife told me was to "detach". I am her teacher during school hours. My pastors wife is an english / spanish teacher. She said....if she would lose her temper at school, she would have some angry parents showing up to talk to her. So, remember to detach....the rules are the rules. She is expected to follow them. When she doesn't, consequences result. She also gave me good ideas as to things to try. I do think though, that I am going to chuck the behavior / reward chart / treasure box thing. It seems to be causing her more grief than good. I do think from what I know and from what others have told me that my dd is a structured type of person. She doesn't do well with change or surprise. If she knows what is coming next, she seems more comfortable. I am using a combination of Abeka and Saxon math. She responds well to the Saxon math. We started Bob Jones but I let that go the first week and ordered Saxon. She is doing well now. I add in our own stuff from time to time like "Super Sentences" and a personal journal. We have a series of books called....A Christian Girls Guide to....Friendship, Being Your Best, Your Mom, etc. We usually snuggle up and read together and discuss the lessons together. We went on a nature scavenger hunt around our small town once. That was fun and both my dd9 and ds4 enjoyed that. We've done experiments in science with bug collecting, mushroom spores, celery and colored water, etc. I think I have been enjoying third grade science as much if not more than my kids. LOL So many things to think about and consider. Just knowing that I need to be firm and not feel guilty for being firm has helped me already. I love my kids SO MUCH that I need to be firm now so that they will become healthy adults. I will check back in and keep you all posted. Right now, I'm headed upstairs to make some popcorn and see who is up for a game of cards.
Nicole, so glad that you have been able to get some positive plans put into action already. Your posts have kept me encouraged with our own homeschooling experiences this past few weeks with 13yo ds. I understand the detachment idea....what's funny is that you'll find that the ability to detach isn't so much to be a teacher instead of a parent at that moment as it is to detach from the feeling of protective mom and realizing that they need to experience the consequences for their actions now so that they will be self-disciplined adults. You mentioned something like that in your post...I'm just reminding myself right now. LOL So glad for you and dd! Keep up the good work, mom!
I haven't had a chance to read through all of the post. So please forgive me if this has been mentioned. One thing that stood out at me is that You said she was an "A" student in PS. And that might be true but with my experience (from others here and in person) that doesn't really mean she knows it all and is at grade level in her studies. Are you sure, that she really really knows what you are working on. You expect her to learn and know things that she might make good test scores on but still not really know it. I mean I was in the top 15 graduating in my class of over 200 and I still do not know anything about fractions, and I have no idea what an adverb is. Most people here recommend deschooling for a while, then starting slow to move into homeschooling so the kids can get used to it.
