I Get Back What I Put In You bring up some very valid questions that many of us ponder. I do feel strongly that God wants His followers to congregate together on a frequent basis. I have determined over the years that I get about as much out of Church as I put into it. Long ago, I decided that my attitude of going to church should not be what "I brought home from church", but rather "what I left at church". I go to church to give and not to get. There are always individuals who need a smile and a handshake, or a home cooked meal or a shoulder to cry on. I believe that God wants us to shoulder one another's burdens and strengthen one another's faith. Another major key to decide upon early in life is that you will not become offended by anyone. Human nature dictates that we jump right to the "offended stage" when in actuality "becoming offended" is a choice that we can control. It doesn't matter to me how effective the pastor is because I'm not there with any expectations from him, but rather to assist. My congregational family is an extension of our home family. I have moved to new communities several times in my life and have always adapted quickly to my new congregations. I like going to church but I love the blessings of associating with the Saints. In the long run, with this attitude, God has always given me more than I have been able to give. Don't give up on God. He is not part of this "instant, I want it now" society. Our relationship with God and our blessings come after the incremental trials of our faith.
Wow! Just...WOW! So well written. This is a truly righteousness heart! I particularly love and highly agree with being offended is a choice. That is my philosophy also.
Not attending church as a family is not an option for us. However, we would love to find a family integrated church. We would love fellowship with other families of like mind. We are also opposed to youth group and age segregated activities, which no one in our church understands.
Lori k. Thank you for your post... I like what you said about being offended is a choice... great point. I find going to church very refeshing and uplifting. I go and there is just something that happens in church that does not happen when I pray at home. I love church, love working in it and love being a part of a church family..
Are you sure you have "no expectations" of the Pastor ? Does that mean that whether he feeds the church with the Word of God or something quite the contrary makes no difference to you ? Some of your thoughts sound good and right but in practice some of them would be unhealthy and even spiritually dangerous for some people. In a world with perfectly trustworthy spiritual leaders absolute trust and lack of expectations from the leader of the church may cause no harm. But that is not the kind of world we live in. The Word of God expects more from the church leaders.
I cannot speak for Lori K, but on my end, I don't have any expectations of our pastor, because what his gifts are and how he uses them are between God and him. Most pastors have been called to do what they do. If a pastor is not using the Word of God correctly, the Lord will deal with him. For the most part, pastors have been to school and/or have exceptional gifts and know what is expected of them as to teaching the Word of God. Plus, most expect more of themselves than I would. I prefer pastors who challenge their congregations and foster spiritual growth, who even make us a bit uncomfortable, but do not brow beat. That is simply a preference, not an expectation. Other people want to just feel good and get a spiritual high that energizes them for the next week they will be out in the world. Some people like/need the fire and brimstone. I would prefer a church with other homeschoolers (we are the only ones) or at least parents more focused on the Lord in their lifestyles at home, but I accept my role as a living example because I believe that is the task the Lord has set before me. The truth is that most people pick their churches on the basis of what makes them comfortable, rather than seeking the Lord as to where He would like them to be, even if it is uncomfortable. However, I think what Lori K is referring to is beyond the pulpit. I guess I feel well grounded in my own relationship with the Lord that I feel don't have any specific need that any one person, including a pastor, can fulfill unless the Lord has called them to do that. As I see it we have an even greater responsibility as a church body to our leaders not to expect too much of them. We need to fill in the gaps and provided strength in areas where our church leaders are weaker; they cannot do everything. I knew one woman who just was in tears every week because her pastor was not sensitive to her. She thought very highly of him and what she wanted from him was a loving father figure, but he was bipolar with a church of over 500 members. Her secret expectation is one that he would never fulfill to her satisfaction. I have this philosophy that we can only be hurt by other people when we have expectations of them, even these secret ones. I have chosen not to give anyone that kind of power over me (except my husband, perhaps, but even then I try to keep my expectations very low). If I had such a need, I think it would be more productive to ask the Lord do with it as He wills. If the need is of His design, then I will accept however He chooses to fulfill it and not look on my own for whom I think should. If it is not from the Lord, I would ask it to be removed from me. Pastors are often expected to be everything to everyone, but that is just not realistic and, unfortunately, it is this expectation that burns out many pastors, whether they try to live up to it or not. In my small church of just over thirty, we have: two people with mental illness, who often take a great deal of time and attention whenever they can and you just never know what they are going to say or do; five people who suffer deep depression and some are, at times, suicidal; three who cannot make it to church do to illnesses; there is someone in the hospital, had some kind of an injury, or having a medical procedure done nearly every month; three families are in financial trouble; and about a third are spiritual newbies. (I cannot image how one pastor with a church five times our size keeps up.) We had a pastor who had depression and two years ago started having a neurological illness that caused her (Nazarenes ordain women) not to be able to walk for weeks at a time. During those times she could not fulfill many of the duties she loved to do, particularly visitation. We, as a church body, had to fill in and, to be honest, it was not that much of a change as some people where already doing that on their own just because they felt they should be, plus we were giving prepared meals to help out her family. She resigned this year, not because of her illness but due to factors outside of the church, and for months we did not have a pastor, but our church remained strong, focused, and cooperative. For those who were spiritually mature, they just did what they always do, follow the Lord's leading, and for those were spiritually weaker, they strengthen. It was quite uncomfortable not knowing the Lord's plan, but it was an opportunity to grow stronger as a church body. People with needs had to talk with other members, instead of the pastor, and that made everyone closer. We will be going through another adjusting phase as we take in our new pastor, who seems to be a highly organized and take charge kind of man with a highly traditional preaching style (differing greatly from what we had previously), and there most likely will be some bumps along the way. Who knows? Some people may leave because it is uncomfortable for them. That would be a shame, but the Lord will also bring to us who needs to be there with us. Our responsibility to God is to be where He wants us to be and do as He wishes us to do. If everyone would do that, there would be no need to have expectations on pastors or anyone else. We would be at peace that all is going according to the Lord's plan. I know that is different in practice, but not so much if you practice it yourself. In this one respect, I envy what missionaries who have learned this out of necessity, because they really live dependent on the Lord with less regard as to what makes them comfortable. Sorry for the soapbox....
My husband and I are currently not attending a church regularly for many of the same reasons you described. We were youth pastors, board member, sunday school teachers, Wednesday night teachers, secretary, lawn maintenance, you-name-it/we-did-it! It was a small church, and we loved the people. We have a young family, and the demands were too great on us. No one should do so much in the church. It's a bad recipe!! We eventually left for a host of reasons, but mostly because we felt God had given us clear directions about what we were doing, but the pastor was alarmed and couldn't understand why we were so quick to move on that direction. It can be so hard to change our way of thinking when it's always been that way and totally unquestioned. We became a part of a housechurch group. It was GREAT!!! It was close, intimate, and real. No one scolded us for not being there. They were in touch with us throughout the week because we were a real family who cared and took care of each other. It was amazing to pray for each other there, because we all knew each other and were invested in each other. No one was just another unspoken prayer request. We now live in remote SW Kansas where housechurch is a foreign word. It isn't a bad word, just foreign. We have met some of the best people and our best friends in a traditional church setting, but overall it's not the way we feel closest to God and our brothers/sisters. Someday God may direct us back into a church, but so far, we've not found that connection with any one church. With all that being said, I do feel that fellowship is vital for our sanity and strength. We need to find Godly people to pray with and eat with and share with. It's just part of being human, and God commands it.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE my church family!! We have sunday school before regular church and there's children's church for the kids that are under 6 grade. IF we want to send them. If not they are welcome to sit with the congregation. AWANA on Wednesday nights and Mon,Tues,Thurs we have exercise/healthy eating classes. It's SO much fun. Church is my junior high age boys social outlet. There's always something going on. As far as judgemental people who make snide comments, I think there is some in every church. unfortunately, but hey, we go to church not because we are perfect but because we are IMPERFECT... ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.. We all have something that isn't quite the way others think it should be... Angie
Another thing is that if I start missing church (January was a hard month) I get phone calls and when I see someone in church they ask if we are ok and how much they miss us at church and to COME back.. LOL.. Makes me feel good that they care. I'm sure there are some in our church that look down on people who don't come regular but I go to worship GOD not to please the people in the church.. Those people should encourage you if you miss not look down on you.. Perhaps it's time to find another church if you are having a hard time with what goes on inside the doors. Pray about it. Sometimes it is a hastle for us to go. Sunday mornings are especially hard. The kids make it very stressful but that's just the devil trying to discourage me. It's the times that I don't feel like going and push to get there that I get exactly what I needed from the message.. Angie
It is amazing of all the different opinions, ideas, and experiences that everyone has. I grew up going to church. Funny thing is that church always put my mom in a bad mood yet she always went. I met my husband at church. When we married we attended church together, then he stopped going to church, then he started going to chruch, and now we don't go to church. We have not gone to church for about seven years and don't miss it. Church usually never uplifted me. I never blamed the church. I thought it was because I am not an outgoing person, nor is my husband. Because of that, we always felt awkward talking to people at church. We did try to remedy this by getting involved. We taught Sunday school, AWANA, VBS, was part of the musical group, and a hodge podge of other things. Our son also began to dread going to church for different reasons. Church was definitely another chore. One of my biggest gripe is how the people kept asking for money. Usually it was not the pastor asking for money. I don't mind giving money to the church that really needs it, but I do mind giving to people or organizations that don't need it. They certainly needed it a lot less than we did. For example, there was a push to give money to the pastor to build a room onto his home. We were told that they were very cramped with three people and desperately needed a room. By chance we went to their home. Their home was a mansion and well decorated compared to ours. A new room they needed not. My experiences with churches is that they take, take, take with grumbling and give nothing back. A lot of people don't have the same feelings about churches as I. I am glad that most people get spiritual fulfillment from church.
