I think the article in interesting and it definitely has some good points. And while I don't see anything other than hs'ing in my future, there are certainly those who shouldn't be doing it. My ds went to 2 years of ps -3 different schools. Only one was what I would say is a horrible school & horrible teacher. There are kids who thrive in ps, even without the individual attention they could get at home.
I think one of the problems is that while you can get good schools...good teachers...good ideas in public - private - homeschools; the basis for government provided education is not to empower individual citizens with knowledge. It is to produce a workforce adequate to meet the need of industry (whether that be private or government) It is also important that the masses be educated enough to do what needs to be done, without seeing what might be done. Imagination is not helpful.
For me, that is not a good enough reason to accept what they have done to this country. I understand that not all parents can homeschool and that does not make them bad parents, yet for every one that cannot - there are probably thousands that can, and don't. Why? Because they have been taught that spending the whole day with your chidlren is abnormal. They have also been taught that parents are unqualified to parent and educate at the same time. In addition, while they have been subscribing to this general philosophy they have allowed the "districts" to play politics with their children and skew the curriculum so as to make our society worse off than we were with each passing generation. Nope. I have no use for public schools. I adore my teacher friends but they are still playing for the wrong team and will blindly go along with what they have been told to do. Just my opinion.
They have neutered parents in to thinking they cannot raise their own children or teach their own children or even make decisions for their own children. They constantly beat in to our heads that they are the professionals and we need to leave everything up to them. I know there are some wonderful teachers and some people who go in to education really feeling they can make a difference and they really care. I actually think I see that a lot more where I am from than where I live now. Where I live now, it is all about a game and a power trip. Everything is so government run and they do not want parents involved or otherwise. They constantly directly and indirectly tell parents that we cannot raise our own children or make any decisions or otherwise.
The only people that i have really heard anything about how abnormal it is and how unqualified parents are to teach is from kids. And from the kids that have said it that i know, its been because of homeschooled kids whose parents homeschooled them just to get them out of ps and never let them socialize with other children so the kids grew up socially retarded and didnt have much of an education. I have never heard a school teacher say that parents are unfit to teach. Many of them are against kids not seeing other kids while they're in school and seem to think that most homeschool kids don't get education, but teachers are just people like anyone else and anyone with an ounce of common sense should realise that teachers just got a degree in college, they're not God. The people playing politics with the children are the senators passing all the crap laws that the schools have to adhere to if they don't want their funding pulled. I will never put my children into public schools when i have some, but if I'll be harsh on anyone it will be the government... which probably won't get me too far but the schools usually do what they do because they don't have another choice besides quitting.
Go look at the goal of the Teacher's Union. Everything I said is spelled out pretty clearly in their mission statement. And they have said many times that parents have no business educating their kids. This is a fact whether you've heard it or not. I've been doing this a long time, I've heard it all and all I'm saying is that I have no use for any of them. It is a corrupt, politically motivated environment that has nothing to do with producing hard working and educated adults. It is used to produce VOTERS. Voters who will believe the brainwashing they receive after 13 years+ of being told how to think.
If you put something in cold water and heat it up to boiling, the animal will stay in and boil to death. I think this refers to lobsters and frogs. But if you try to drop them straight in to boiling water, they will fight to get out. That is what public schooling is. We are all so used to it and we are taught from birth on up that it is normal and natural and so on. But there is nothing less normal or natural than what is going on in the schools. Fact is, the shoe fits. The word "cult" sounds so drastic, but it fits. Just the way so many public schoolers react to hearing someone homeschools says a lot. I know they don't all act that way, but not all cult members are on board with their cult in any cult really. They do not act for the better of the person or the children or anything. They only work for the better of the leader of the cult with little to no regard for those that they are claiming to be there for.
I wasn't going to, but I feel like I should chime in here on behalf of those who work in public education. I was a teacher for the past 8 1/2 years (I recently resigned for personal reasons and will be homeschooling next year). I do agree that public schools have many, many faults. I cringe at some of the things that my children come home telling me has gone on during the school day. There are those within the public school system who most definitely shouldn't be there and who are there for the wrong reasons. But, in my experience, it is not the majority. I have worked with some absolutely wonderful teachers. These ladies (and a few gentlemen) devote their time, energy, money, and love to their classrooms and their students. They give up time they could be spending with their own families to attend after school activities, parent/teacher conferences, book fairs, parental involvement activities, professional development, etc. And most of them do it without complaint and without compensation. They are there because they love children and want to help children become successful adults. You have to consider, as well, what the teachers in public schools are given to work with. It is a nearly impossible task to teach 25+ children at an individual level all at the same time. If all of these children came from homes where there were two loving parents who were there to help with homework, provide nutritious meals, and ensure that they were in bed at a decent time at night it might be a bit easier. But this is not the reality many children live with. Just this week one of my teacher friends received a call (at home after hours) from a parent who needed someone to take the child while mom checked herself in for psychiatric help. This child has been through things that the rest of us don't even want to imagine. And when she isn't being successful at school, the teacher will be held accountable for that. So, please, give teachers a little respect. Most of them are doing the best they can. If you feel that public school isn't the best place for your child and you want to homeschool then do it. But, be thankful that there are teachers who are willing to be there for these children who are much better off at school than they are when they get home in the afternoon.
I have a problem understanding just how personal an education can be when the teacher has anywhere from 15 through 30+ students to work with in a limited amount of time per day. If the junior high schools in your area are anything like the schools around here, all the students have six to seven classes a day. I can't figure out how a teacher can focus "enough" personal time on each individual student. Assuming one class runs 45 minutes, more or less, then that individual time sure is spread awefully thin. Now remember, I am speaking from my experience with our schools. Your daughter's school might have smaller classes that run longer than ours. I do not know. ...and I agree with you. No school, private, homeschool, or public is perfect. They all have a fault somewhere. But for me, the negative in the public system far outweights the negative in the homeschooling environment. Again, I am speaking from my experience.
I am glad you joined in! We have a few other teachers here at Homeschool Spot, or parents who taught in public school once upon a time. I agree with you. I believe there are a lot of teachers who went into their jobs ready to serve the student. Two of my daughters graduated from public school and I remember really liking one of the teachers because she really cared. But it doesn't change the fact that the teachers are still limited by a higher power. They are part of a system that requires them to tie one hand behind their back and teach according to political correctness. It appears, to me, that many schools have tossed out the individual student in favor of a grading system that is intended to make the school look good. In the end, many students are still graduating when they aren't ready. As long as they graduate, then the school gets a pat on its back. But what exactly does the diploma represent? I know what I believe it should represent. I also know that my standards are not that of the public system, good teachers or not. Then on the other hand, it must be almost impossible to set up a system that can completely individualize the curriculum for every student when there are so many to a class. I know I couldn't do it. Your post is really great because it reflects what makes a caring teacher. A person who desires to work with so many students when it is no doubt difficult and a person who desires to help those who sadly come from a troubled home. I think that is great! Oddly enough, these are some of the problems that have aided in my choice to homeschool. Classes are too large and sometimes the troubles brought into the school by some of these students creates an environment that I do not believe is a suitable place for learning. Granted, these are only a few of the reasons. When I really give it thought, I think the difference between a "bad" public school and a "bad" homeschool is that it is a lot easier to rebuild what is faulty in a homeschool, assuming the best interest is in the child. In a public setting, it is almost impossible to rebuild what is faulty. There is just too much to work with and too much government sticking their noses into things. Again, thanks for joining in! Hearing the other side opens up discussion and brings about food for thought.
I can't join in this conversation anymore because all I see are complete prejudices. Some of you ladies are just making blanket statments which really surprises me considering we as homeschoolers get the same thing done to us all the time and we don't like it when it is done to us. Yes my daughter does get personal instruction at her junior high because the teachers are fabulous and have taken time before and afterschool and during class to help her on a personal level .They have also corresponded with her and I via email on many occasions. They all know that I homeschool as well and not one ever, including the principal, has ever once said anything negative to me. The people I deal with are not what some of you describe which brings me to my next point of how can those of you who have never had a child in public school, never had a personal experience to base your opinion off of make such blanket statements regarding this topic? I just find it funny that the ones here who bash public schools with everything they have also seem to think that their opinion is the way it is all over when that isn't even close to being true. So you can all carry on with this but since I do happen to have personal knowledge and experince I hapeen to have a different opinion. And we all know how well that goes over here at the spot.:roll:
I think you are taking it personal and it is not meant to be. I for one said this was just my opinion. I also said that I adore my public teacher friends. My neighbor is a teacher at the local junior high. This debate is not about individuals. It is not about this teacher or that teacher. This school or that school It is about a SYSTEM. A system that is failing miserably. Sure, tons of people will jump on the bandwagon to save the polar bears - where's all that outrage at what the SYSTEM has done to the humans? If you say your daughter is thriving then by God she's thriving. It isn't about YOU. Or your daughter. It is obvious that the schools have an agenda. And please tell me why a Teacher's Union, who spell out in their mission statement that their purpose is to represent teachers and not school children, has ANY say in educational policy? Why do they fight tooth and nail against vouchers? Because it will hurt the poor public school kids? Please, give me a freaking break. It is about money. More specifically it is about greed, corruption, and power. This is what I rail against. Not YOUR daughter. Not YOUR decision. Not a specific TEACHER. Not a specific SCHOOL. The failing system of Big Education. Like I said - one child's success - even a million successes - are not enough to justify what this "system" has done to America for me personally. (And I'd just like to say that I am about as far from fitting into "the mold" here at the Spot as anyone can be and I have never felt anything but welcome.)
That's okay, Tiff - I worked in public schools for twenty years. I saw good teachers who genuinely cared about each and every student they taught. I saw teachers who genuinely did not like kids! And tons of them all in between. Some really liked teaching, they just weren't all that good at it. Others had all the methods, all the general knowledge, could individualize like nobody's business - but they didn't enjoy it. I've known principals and central office administrators who had been out of the classroom so long they pretty much had no idea what happened in there anymore. And I knew some who were very much in touch with classroom teachers and parents as well. I've been in schools where if a parent showed up to volunteer, they were received gladly and given something important to do, and others where if a parent showed up they were all but ushered out with a "here's your hat and what's your hurry, bye now!" And all this just within the same school district (I'm in Louisiana, so it's by the parish here). Never mind from one state to another or one region to another.
I agree with this, absolutely, including liking individual teachers, but certainly not policies of the NEA. I would like to add: Public school is necessary as a default educational system and that is what it is! If you see it from that perspective, you will have reasonably low expectations of it. As I see it, if a child thrives there, which I think is great, it is still going to be below that child's real potential. Obviously, my idea of how a child should be educated and trained is far from the default educational system. Also, the default educational system creates a wedge in the parent-child relationship. Some parents welcome this because they have time to themselves or they have to work, but it has had a far-reaching affect in our society. One other thing, as to the effect on society: education by its very nature is religious. The default system tells us that education can be and should be exclusive of religion, but then the children are still believing something often based on their education. Just talk to some German students and you will see what I mean.
I truly sometimes wish that the PS's around here would meet our needs - but they don't. I love the VP at the elementary school both my kids were at.... but they are WAY overcrowded and there is nothing I can do about it, I wish I could. I see my 2 fd's in PS and one is thriving the other is really struggling - but class moves on. She memorizes and spits back out and I wish she could/would get more. THEY just don't have enough resources. She is ESL and there isn't even a resource teacher in this particular school that can help her, she is pulled out of class to have the teacher (or assistant) read her the questions - and no one seems to be concerned about this at the 8th grade level. Her reading level is about 4th-5th grade and again no one seems concerned. It is all about money in some schools. My other fd who is in 10th grade was told she couldn't take a summer school class at home through Seton (an accredited private school in our state) and would HAVE to take it through the county at the wonderful price of $600!! Yeah right - I called the main office for the county and they said doing it through Seton is no problem since there would be an official transcript! I think the problem also lies with the parents. They over-trust the system and then at the same time complain about their child's behavior when they SEE their kid less than an hour a day! I saw this a lot in our old neighborhood - both parents working..... kids come home to an empty house.....do whatever..... parents get home 7-8pm sometimes and then wonder why their kids didn't talk to them. It's a sad cycle honestly. MonkeyM - you and your daughter are truly an exception! I remember when you were looking into having her go to PS and you were NOT just sending her anywhere - it wasn't an easy choice - but you looked at all options and also really LOOKED at the school. YOU cared where she went. She does seem to be doing really well and for that honestly I am thrilled for you. But at the same time - you spent YEARS developing an honest relationship with your daughter. Most people send their kids off at age 4 or even younger to a daycare/pre-school and never have that relationship foundation. I think a lot of the problem is that adults "want more" constantly - and for that they need 2 working parents. We have forgotten in this country the meaning of family. I remember even though my mother worked - she was home every day when I got home 95% of the time even when I was a teen. When she wasn't there - she was STILL home by 4-5 to make dinner and we ALWAYS sat down together for that. Do we really need more "stuff" to make our lives "better"? Ok - now I'm rambling But you know I only do this one time per month - LOL....
The last time I checked the majority of us attended public schools which gives us plenty of experience as to how the system operates and I know I am not the only parent who has children who attended or attend public schools and it is because of my personal knowledge and experience that I happen to have a different opinion. Edited to add: This isn't to suggest that your opinion isn't welcome. :love: This is a discussion and people will not always agree but I do appreciate that we can all share.
To quote this article by John Taylor Gatto "School also trains us to accept a gigantic government with multiple police forces whose need is to control all significant decisions, even in private lives. The monstrous government with its comprehensive surveillance, its theft of your money, its ability to confine those who resist indoctrination, is the perfect mirror imitation of a command economy where "work" is mostly defined in corporate boardrooms, where the wishes and plans of a few CEOs and their families are imposed on the lives of all. These are the new nobility, bidding fair over the past several decades to extend their rule over the entire planet. Welcome to the American empire which has replaced both Republican and Democratic forbears. School is the processing center for its mercenaries, who, of necessity must needs be made incomplete. This could not have happened without first rendering our people frightened of personal sovereignty, by making them childish and dependent. But is it now too strong to be overthrown?" As odd as this article is I do see the point in this section. I know several really great teachers who are Christians as well. And the sound across the board with them is we are unable to teach the way God intended. I still don't think that having 30+ kids in a class room with one teacher and perhaps an aide if the school is large enough and can pay one is going to teach our children anything. Not at the pace that some kids learn. So what happens to the kids that can't "keep up" they are placed in "special classes" and yanked out of the normal class room. Where they have missed instruction on a subject that then the parents are told to teach at home. Yes I am speaking from experience here. Personally it all boils down to money. If your child can make the school system a dollar they will use that to their benefit with no regards to your child.
