Oh, sorry, I misunderstood! Yes, I think this is possible, that someone in a coma might hear and accept, without the rest of us so-called conscious people knowing anything about it.
Agreed. Coma's are pretty mysterious, so we will never know. Although...I do sorta want to stray form the point a bit if I may..... My Mom's grandpa passed away when she was in her teens, and his wife passed away before mom was born. On the night of his death (he had been unconscious most of the time), my mom was laying in bed and she saw a two figure mist, and knew it was her grandma and grandpa holding hands, saying goodbye. Also, when I was young my Pa passed and we were extremely close. He died of cancer from the Copenhagen he chewed (I loved that smell) one day while playing outside a few years after his death I stopped and smelled the distinct smell of his Copenhagen and suddenly I felt so warm (it was late fall) I knew he had just given me a hug (I tear up just thinking about it/feeling his love/missing his presence). Now...those stories weren't meant to cause a discussion about Spirits/Angels (because I know some people don't believe that stuff can happen) the point was that if she made it into Heaven then she will let you know in her own way. My mom's grandparnts appeared to her, and my Pa gave me a hug in our yard and a familiar scent. To this day I feel the bottom of my bed shaking and I know it's him just saying Hello. (Believe it or not, my convicions are strong on this one. lol) AGAIN, point being...if she made it she will let you know in some way or another.
Considering we've gone from prosperity doctrine to ghosts, I'd say "stray from the point" is the new name of this thread.
My wife will tell you that, when she was a small child, her grandpa appeared in her bedroom to say "Good night" as he often did, just as she was falling asleep. He lived a few miles away, and it was around the time he died. We hear enough of these stories to know they happen. In most cases, it seems to be a warm and encouraging act - and especially to a child.
Such an interesting subject and so little time do I have, but I wanted to say this: In the Bible we are warned not to contact the dead, which always made me wonder if we should not do it, doesn't that suggest that is possible...? And, I guess, they are not told they should not contact the living...? Or maybe it is just angels bring comfort or demons playing tricks? So many things we have yet to learn that we do not yet understand! Heaven must be a wondrous place!
Wow! :love: When I had to have emergency surgery I was bleeding out and I knew that I was dying. The surgeon talked to my honey and didnt feel I would make it through surgery but of course they were going to diligently try to save my life. My only unpeaceful feeling was when I looked at my honey as they wheeled me off into the x-ray room, I felt like I was disappointing him. I was in and out of consciousness but I do have vivid memories of things that happened in the er. After I saw my honey they took me into x-ray, dh said they kept him with me to hold me on my side while they were x-raying me. I was not able to move, I felt paralyzed. I don't remember honey being in there with me. Then when I thought all hope was lost I saw a man leaning over me with little reading glasses and he said it would be, "okay". Behind this man was light shining behind his head, at that point I felt peace, like everything WAS going to be okay. The man didnt tell me who he was but I felt he was the surgeon. I dont remember anything after that except waking up from surgery and asking what they did. A man came into my room who looked exactly like the guy in x-ray, small reading glasses and all, and I said, "you are my surgeon". He said, "how did you know?" I said, "you were in x-ray with me and told me I would be okay". He replied, "I was never in x-ray with you". I told him what happened and he was touched by what I said.
Oh, my goodness. I don't have time to read all the post. But, wow, did they ever wander. Back to the lost and unreached. There are people (don't know how many) who have never heard the name of Jesus. There are also people who have heard of Jesus, but don't really know who he is. Muslims have heard of Jesus, but they don't think he is part of the Trinity and they don't know that He died for their sins, unless someone tells them the truth. There are also the people who have heard the Gospel story many times (several to hundreds of time), but only think of it as a nice story without any real application to their life. I would put a great number of Americans in that category. So spreading the Gospel message is not just going out and telling the story from the Bible. That is part of it. I believe it is also in living it out. And, let me be first to admit I am not always good at doing what I am going to outline below: Living the Gospel out means holding a nursing homes resident's hand, no matter how they smell or what they look like or what mental capacity they have. Living the Gospel out means giving food/money to help the single mom who can't afford nutricious food. Living the Gospel means spending time with young people who might have tough attitudes to deal with. Living the Gospel means visiting people in prison, whether the deserve to be there or not. Living the Gospel means listening to a grieving widow and letting her cry on your shoulder. Living the Gospel means praying for the drug addict, the prostitute, and the criminal without thinking they are beyond God's grace. Living the Gospel means living an honest life and honestly loving others so they can actually see the change that Christ makes in our lives. Living the Gospel means visiting with our neighbors and continually speaking of God's love and then acting out that love. Now, we may not be able to do all that at any one time. BUT, we can do some. If we do this along with sharing the message, people may begin to see that it is real and not just a story.
Okay, I dont read for a few days....spend almost 2 hrs reading this 18 page thread with more twist and turns then a good novel! I've forgotten half of what I wanted to say, think it's best to not even touch on some. But I think it all comes down to a couple points... 1) Giving goes way beyond money. I heard it said once as "Time, talent and treasure"... 2) Love thy God with all thy heart, mind and soul. And love thy neighbor as thyself. So who am I to judge? Who am I to think what anyone else should do with their money, including buying power windows. The only one I can judge and control is MYSELF. It is up to me to have a relationship with God, to grow that relationship and to apply that relationship to my life. To ask myself how I can love my fellow man. Time... to cook a meal, to babysit, to help a mom in the parkinglot of Walmart to unload her groceries when she has 3 little ones, to hold open a door for someone, to give a smile or a kind word. Talent...again, cooking a meal, making a quilt for a charity (like the Victory Junction Gang), knitting blankets for premmies at the local hospital, baking a special cake for a friend's birthday for free, being compassionate and loving to someone in need of a hug or an ear. Treasury ... more than just giving money, what about giving something I know has value that I could sale but instead make the choice to benefit someone else? It's real disheartening to be judged. To be told I must give a certain amount of money and that's all that matters. That someone else here on earth decides whether or not I am saved.... no one person here on earth can know what is in my heart or where I am in my relationship with God. It is up to me to learn, to grow and to do what I feel I am led to through prayer and guiding by my God. I think it comes down to something said in another post....how differently we all are made like the trees. We all may do things differently, but dont you think it can all be done different ways to work for the Glory of God?
I must clarify this point about power windows! It was meant as an example, not as an indictment. When we buy something, do we limit it to what we need or do we spend on things we don't need - resources that could be used to make a real difference in the lives of others? Maybe it's buying a house that's bigger than we need, or a flat screen TV when the big old TV is working just fine, or an expensive vacation overseas when a week enjoying the local scenery would suffice, or whatever. It's a mindset, not a 'law'. It's a reference to biblical principle, not judgment of others. "It's only $10" - but $10 can buy a treated mosquito net that saves the life of a child.
I was searching the Internet to remember what John Wesley owned when he died (it was almost nothing) and came across these excerpts about him. While at Oxford, an incident changed his perspective on money. He had just finished paying for some pictures for his room when one of the chambermaids came to his door. It was a cold winter day, and he noticed that she had nothing to protect her except a thin linen gown. He reached into his pocket to give her some money to buy a coat but found he had too little left. Immediately the thought struck him that the Lord was not pleased with the way he had spent his money. He asked himself, Will thy Master say, "Well done, good and faithful steward"? Thou hast adorned thy walls with the money which might have screened this poor creature from the cold! O justice! O mercy! - Are not these pictures the blood of this poor maid? Perhaps as a result of this incident, in 1731 Wesley began to limit his expenses so that he would have more money to give to the poor. He records that one year his income was 30 pounds and his living expenses 28 pounds, so he had 2 pounds to give away. The next year his income doubled, but he still managed to live on 28 pounds, so he had 32 pounds to give to the poor. In the third year, his income jumped to 90 pounds. Instead of letting his expenses rise with his income, he kept them to 28 pounds and gave away 62 pounds. In the fourth year, he received 120 pounds. As before, his expenses were 28 pounds, so his giving rose to 92 pounds. Wesley felt that the Christian should not merely tithe but give away all extra income once the family and creditors were taken care of. He believed that with increasing income, what should rise is not the Christian's standard of living but the standard of giving. His first rule about money was Gain all you can. Despite its potential for misuse, money in itself is something good. There is no end to the good it can do: "In the hands of (God's) children, it is food for the hungry, drink for the thirsty, raiment for the naked. It gives to the traveler and the stranger where to lay his head. By it we may supply the place of a husband to the widow, and of a father to the fatherless. We may be a defense for the oppressed, a means of health to the sick, of ease to them that are in pain. It may be as eyes to the blind, as feet to the lame: yea, a lifter up from the gates of death!" Wesley added that in gaining all they can, Christians must be careful not to damage their own souls, minds, or bodies, or the souls, minds or bodies of anyone else. He thus prohibited gaining money through industries that pollute the environment or endanger workers. Wesley's second rule for the right use of money was Save all you can. He urged his hearers not to spend money merely to gratify the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eye, or the pride of life. He cried out against expensive food, fancy clothes, and elegant furniture: "Despise delicacy and variety and be content with what plain nature requires." Wesley had two reasons for telling Christians to buy only necessities. The obvious one was so they would not waste money. The second was so they would not increase their desires. The old preacher wisely pointed out that when people spend money on things they do not really need, they begin to want more things they do not need. Instead of satisfying their desires, they only increase them. Wesley's third rule was Give all you can. One's giving should begin with the tithe. He told the one who does not tithe, "Thou dost undoubtedly set thy heart upon thy gold" and warned, "It will 'eat thy flesh as fire!'" But one's giving should not end at the tithe. All of the Christian's money belongs to God, not just the first tenth. Believers must use 100 percent of their income as God directs.
CornishSteve, I love reading and hearing about God's servants. I have read a biography about George Mueller and it tells many true incidents about what happened in his life. He took care of hundreds of orphans and to my understanding most or all of his money went to this effort. There were times when he didn't know where the food (or other resource) would come from, but God always provided. The one story that stands out is when they had no food. He had the children sit down at the table with empty plates, because HE knew that God would provide. There was a knock on the door and a food and milk were provided (from two sources). I can't remember the details, but you get the idea. In my mind I know that God will provide, but in my heart I doubt it often. I do give some of my money and I have never been asked to give it all away. I want to be the kind of person who is willing without hesitation to do whatever God asks. I want to walk minute by minute with God. The thing that gets in my way is my own stupid human thinking and reasoning.
You're right on all counts. Years ago, when I helped a friend of mine in Wales to research his ancestry, we learned that George Muller had seen this friend's great-grandparents off at Bristol docks as they traveled as missionaries to India. Muller was an extraordinary man of faith - and a true friend to other believers. The unexpected "knock on the door" is our role in the story - only we're providing the mosquito net when the child's mother prays in faith, or a goat to help the family praying for help in desperate circumstances.
Wow! 'Been away for a few weeks and thought I'd check in to see what was happening at my favorite "Spot," which I used to visit so regularly. Reading this thead has been such philosophical "fun," and I've enjoyed holding this gem of a topic up to the Light with you all and examining it from so many perspectives! Steve, there truly are few greater thrills in life than what you just described! Some people say it is our duty to "give until it hurts." I see no flaw in that saying. On the other hand, the thrill of giving is intoxicating--to the point that once you've experienced it, there is the temptation to give lavishly, even "foolishly," for the shear JOY of giving! It's partially about seeing the needs of others being met, and it's also an act of worship. Sometimes, as we attempt serving beyond our means, the LORD fills in the gaps and sustains us. Oh, the thrill of testing our wings of faith instead of only relying on our earth-bound feet! (Editing this to link it back to the OP, with which I concur--especially with this statement: "I think God does bless with material things, but He also blesses us with grace and forgiveness and peace and a renewed life. Those material things will fade away, the others can stay with us for eternity." I agree: the "prosperity teaching" has major flaws in it.)
I think if we allow God to move in our lives we will see an abundance of change to our thinking. We who visit "the Spot" have already gone against the grain when we chose homeschooling. I personally have been on a journey and God has been showing me how to approach the whole idea of homeschooling. In fact, I have found out that God's view on education is much different than mine. I read and now understand in my heart that God's first priority in my son's life is NOT academic. How am I connecting this to the topic on this thread? Good question.. We have been "trained" by the world that we have to look out for number 1. We have had multiple examples of people in front of our eyes enjoying the good life, that apparently cannot be had without a certain amount of money. We are told that giving away everything is foolish. We "must" provide for our retirement. We must have a back-up plan and enough in savings to carry us through for several months. I think giving as much as God requires is difficult, because it takes a paradigm shift in thinking. I want SO much to be the type of person who can honestly say, "Whatever You require Lord, that is what I will give/do." I am not there yet, because I let my own thoughts and desires get me bogged down. p.s. I am not saying preparing for the future is bad. But, IF God asks us to give it all away, we should be willing. He won't leave us struggling; He won't forget us.
Actually, that is exactly what the verse is saying. The rain is a blessing, not a cursing or a trial. It's not saying that bad things happen even to Christians, it's saying that God loves and blesses His enemies. Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
The purpose of Romans 1-3 is to show that all are under sin. All know better and all have violated their own conscience. God is fully just in sending the sinful to hell because they chose sin when they should have chosen righteousness. But this is not the Gospel. Not true. However God could have done it, He has chosen to spread the gospel through man. Consider: Mat 9:36 But when he (Jesus) saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd. Mat 9:37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few; Mat 9:38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest. Luk 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. Luk 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. Here is Jesus, seeing the harvest, and He tells the disciples to pray that God would send labourers.
