I love the Holy Spirit and I know He works in my life. I even sometimes think I have been baptized in the Holy Spirit, but I tried to talk in tongues, but I felt awkward and forced--so I didn't do much. Later, I thought it was probably me trying to conjure up something to cement my "baptism". My church believes that to be baptized you have to have the initial sign of speaking in tongues. I am NOT a Biblical scholar, but the verses they have used speak of many speaking in tongues. I haven't seen in the Bible where it says all MUST speak in tongues to be baptized in the Spirit. I am member of my church, but I feel I can disagree with this point. I can't really remember if the signed statement included this or not. If it did, I almost feel that I should mention it to the pastor. I wouldn't stop attending, but I would like him to know. I also don't mean to usurp his authority or stand up to the congregation and shout my doubts. I don't think this issue is a dividing issue. I love my church and my pastors.
I would encourage you to read I Corinthians chapters 12, 13 and 14. They have to do with the gifts of the Holy Spirit. It is evident after reading these chapters that even back then, people with certain gifts were trying to tell others that they didn't have the Holy Spirit if they didn't show evidence of Him in a certain way. Paul actually tells them in I Cor. 12:29-30 "All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? All do not have the gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?" This tells us in black and white that not everyone will show evidence of tongues. If you belong to an Assemblies of God church, then the list of things they believes includes tongues as a first evidence and it is probably in the membership bylaws. I obviously do not believe that you must have evidence of the Holy Spirit by tongues first because we are told not all have it.
As Southern Baptists, (I probably don't have a lot of credibility on this subject!), we in general believe that tongues is ONE manifestation of the Spirit, and in general SBs don't seek to speak in tongues. Some do, however, including some of my fellow members. But in private, not in church. It's not that we don't believe it's real, or anything like that, but Paul says there are other gifts to be desired. I do know that it can be forced and artificial, learned to be produced at will, and that what sounds like tongues to others can be a forgery of demons too. We believe that the Spirit comes to live within a person at the time of their salvation, and that a way to tell that is a major change (however quick or gradual it may be) in their life. If the gift of tongues will happen, it will happen, so just make yourself open to it, ask God to help you be open to it, and if it happens, it happens, and God bless you!
When you read the verses about toungues be sure to make the distinguishment between tongueS and just tongue. Tongues in every passage I have studied refers to the spiritual gift of speaking in a language you have never learned. Tongue refers to what you are referencing. It is very noticable in the Corinthian passage. As a fundimental Baptist I believe that the Holy Spirit is received apon salvation and that it is outwardly manifested by our fruits. We do not speak in tongue.
Another southern baptist here. I personally dont' believe you have to speak in tongues to show evidence of the Spirit. “Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit . . . for to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as He will” (1 Corinthians 12:4-11) I believe we all have different gifts. Speaking in tongues may not be your gift. You should find out what your gift is. Google "spiritual gifts test" there are some simple ones online that will point you in the right direction of what your gifts are. My main/big gift is Discernment. It's a cool gift to have sometimes. Though sometimes other Christisans don't like people that have that gift LOL I would love the gift of evangelism, or missionary, but those are not my gifts, and forcing them won't do any good, for me or God. My understanding of the gift of tongues is to speak in a language not previously learned so unbelievers can hear God's message in their own language. So I don't understand why, in America, where everyone in the church speaks English, the members are so interested in people speaking in a language no one can understand....what does that do? I mean, if you were to go to my local flea market and bust out into Spanish without ever studying it, then I'd be impressed, that's a useful gift, but what does speaking an unknown language in a church full of English speakers do??? How does it glorify God? If you don't know what the person is saying, they could be cursing God and proclaiming Satan's power right there in your church, how would you know?
Seems obvious, doesn't it? That is when you read that text alone. But many who believe in tongues as stated in the OP believe the Bible clearly defines two kinds of tongues. One kind is referenced in this verse - the ability to speak in one language and be heard in another as what happened on Pentecost. The other kind is a prayer language as referenced in 1 Corinthians 14 "For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit." ---------------------- As for the theology of you don't have the Spirit if you don't speak in tongues I would caution against a works-based belief system. You don't receive the ability to speak in tongues by your own strength. All things we receive of God are by grace through faith. As for receiving the Spirit all Christians receive a measure of the Holy Spirit. The disciples received the Spirit before Christ rose from the dead. Those who are of the Spirit-filled (Pentecostal, Charismatic) variety may believe that Pentecost revealed the fullness of the Spirit poured out so that a Christian could go about and do the works of Christ with boldness ("clothed with power from on high").
1 Cor 5 (NASB) 9 So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 13 Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 16 Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified. 22 So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe. 23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; 28 but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. From this, what I'm getting is that Paul said okay, speak in a prayer language to God, but if you don't also have the gift of interpretation, even your own mind doesn't understand it. The gift should be to edify - the person or the church - and there should be some order in church, not just everybody speaking at once, and there should be interpretation, or it's only so much air being moved around. I know books have been written on how to learn to speak in tongues. (I've never read them.) But if you can learn it, then it's not a gift (for you, that is). What good is a gift that does not edify either the person or the church? Paul here speaks of "ungifted" men - which he distinguishes from unbelievers. Since I believe that the Spirit bestows a gift (or more than one) when He enters at the time of salvation, I must presume that by this he means believers who are not gifted with the same gift, that of tongues or of interpretation. Hearing tongues spoken in church is not edifying to them, nor does it convict the unbelievers present. I also believe that "prophecy" includes fore-telling of things hidden from others, either in the future, or in this passage the things hidden in the person's heart (v25), and it also includes forth-telling, that is, telling the Truth (perhaps as revealed already in Scripture) to somebody who desperately needs to hear it.
Just want to pop in with another comment about churches who tell you that you must speak in tongues as a "first evidence" of the Holy Spirit. I have noticed that my friends who attend an Assembly of God church are also under the impression that every time scripture says "filled with the Holy Spirit" that it means they spoke in tongues. Simply not true. Cabsmom40, not sure if that is also something that you are being taught, but I know that people who struggle with tongues as a "first evidence" are often confused by what "being filled with the Holy Spirit" means. And Lindina, great post concerning a gift not being learned. It is given for use for a specific moment, a season, or, when the Spirit wishes, for a lifetime of continued use.
Controversial topic, I know, but not one to hold back.... The verses that are sometimes translated "baptized in the Holy Spirit" are better translated "baptized by the Holy Spirit" (into the church at the moment of salvation). As for the word 'tongue', it's the standard word for 'language'. Those speaking in tongues were able to speak known foreign languages without ever having been trained in them - or maybe even heard them. The Holy Spirit ensured that language was not a barrier to the spread of the gospel. There's no such need today, which is why I believe there is no such gift today. I don't mean to sound dogmatic; this is simply how I and some others translate these passages.
I think a lot are making great points. I think Steve put it rather well. The purpose of speaking in tongues was two-fold: 1. The scripture at 1 Corinthians 14:22 when read in context is showing that speaking in tongues (a foreign language one had not learned) was an indication to unbelievers that the newly formed Christian congregation had God's approval and backing. The gifts given to those first Christians would point truth-seekers toward God's people. 2. It was an effective tool that aided first century Christians to preach to people of many different languages as was commanded by Jesus. (Matthew 28:19; Acts 1:8) Remember many of the early disciples were "unlettered and ordinary" so having the ability to preach fluently in a language they had not leaned was a true blessing. (Acts 4:13) So, what about today? Paul prophesied this about the miraculous gifts including tongues: "But whether there are [gifts of] prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with." (1 Corinthians 13:8) When would these gifts cease? Acts 8:18 shows that the gifts of the spirit were received “through the laying on of the hands of the apostles.” With the death of the last apostle, the passing on of the gifts of the spirit would stop—including speaking in tongues. When those who had received these gifts from the apostles also passed off the earthly scene, the miraculous gift would cease. By then the Christian congregation would have had time to become well established and would have spread to many lands. As for prophesying it is important to remember these words: "However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond what we declared to you as good news, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:8) What message from God do we need that has not already been given to us? (2 Timothy 3:16,17)
1 Corinthians 13 explains when prophecy, tongues, and knowledge would cease if you keep reading that chapter. Do you think that we have reached "the perfect" or the "then face to face?" That is what the context of ceasing is referring to in this chapter. I'm a little confused at this. Acts 8:18 shows that when the apostles laid their hands on people they received the Holy Spirit. I'm sure you believe that you can receive the Holy Spirit without a long dead apostle laying hands on you, right? If a prophecy goes against the Gospel it is definitely not from God. In Scripture it declares in Ephesians 4: 11And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. It describes how long pastors, teachers, prophets, evangelists, and apostles would work toward buildling up the body of Christ. Note the bolded text.
Embassy, I was just going to post almost verbatim what you wrote. The only time there will not be a need for any of the gifts will be when we are face to face with Jesus and we are made perfect like He is. I was raised in a Nazarene church, married the son of a Baptist pastor, and my kids attend youth group at Assembly. I am well-versed in most sides of any disagreement on scripture. I have come to a place where my prayer in my scripture reading is for God to do away with everything I have been taught by others so that I am teachable by Him through His Word. Tongues is an area where I had always been taught that it had ceased. Well, I attend a non-denominational church now where tongues is not sought after, yet not prohibited. I was recently prayed over for trouble I was having with a harrassing spirit. I had told nobody what the heart of my issue was, yet when I was prayed over the pastor's wife was praying for exactly what my problem was. I went home and talked to Dh about how the Holy Spirit was interceding for me in that He allowed her to pray specifically for my issue without any prior knowledge. Come to find out, she was praying in tongues and I heard her in English; however, everyone else heard her praying in tongues. Amazes me to this day. God used the Spiritual gifts of discerning of spirits, tongues and interpretation of tongues to work together to heal my spirit. That way only the Lord and I knew what my heart issue was (until I was able to confess it openly), yet people were still able to be obedient in intercessory prayer over me. Just thougth I'd share how these gifts work today if we do not hinder, or deny, the Holy Spirit.
I am not sure what the distinction between the two is that you are mentioning. I am referring to where people speak in a language that they do not know. Our church has many occasions where people speak in a language that they do not know and it is very orderly and someone is given the message of interpretation, so we are not left out in the cold. I DO believe that it is a gift, I just don't believe it is an essential sign for all who have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
I think there is still a need. I am just going by my gut (and that is a dangerous thing) but it seems to me that when there is speaking in tongues in my church-- it makes everyone pay attention and the focus shifts to the message we are receiving. I have to disagree that the gift of tongues is not needed. My pastor's wife also told a story of a time that another person and she were praying and the friend started praying in tongues. There happened to be a young boy near by who knew that language. Just imagine--God still reaches people in amazing ways.
Brooke and cabsmom -- these are the kind of testimonies that would tend to convince me. I've only been present in a church where at a certain time of the service somebody started speaking what sounded to me as gibberish -- of course, I knew that it was "speaking in tongues". It was orderly, not the whole crowd talking at once, nothing like that. Then when this person had stopped, someone else began "interpreting". The problem was, this "interpretation" went on a whole lot longer than the "tongues" did, and it didn't make a whole lot of sense either although it was in English. It was very rambling, disconnected, almost like "glossolalia in English" if you know what I mean. And someone brought up before about what if Satan takes hold and is mocking God? I've heard (from a friend who was present) about a worship service where the congregation was "praying someone through" and he began to speak "in tongues". There were quite a few strangers there (it was a sort of revival general public meeting, not just a for-the-church meeting) and all the congregation members were praising God because this man they'd been praying for had finally been baptized in the Spirit and spoken in tongues. A stranger stepped forward and proclaimed that they should not because the man had been cursing God in perfect Russian! which he spoke and the congregation didn't.
