Sometimes when I ask if people have a relationship with Jesus or if they are a Christian, they say, "I have gone to church all my life. This always sparks a reaction in my mind of how to approach the fact that church attendance won't save them. Other people when I ask how do you think you get to Heaven, will say, "By being good." Again, this is obviously not the way the Bible outlines salvation. I do my best (with God's help) to let them know that it isn't what we do, but by having a relationship with Jesus Christ. My intention is that they know that they have to repent and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and that alone saves them. I think it is a good thing to go to church, but it doesn't save us. I think it is wonderful to give tithes and offerings, but it won't save us either. I think it is great to help others, to reach out and share our testimonies, but again, we can't get to Heaven by performing (no matter how charitable it is). So, I believe that good works should be done out of a heart to follow Christ and not religious obligation. He has loved us SO much that my heart should overflow and respond willingly.
I agree that I find many who do not know what it means to be a Christian. It really doesn't matter what we think or what someone teaches us but what the Bible teaches. We have had many discussions on here about salvation and I think we all agree that no one can earn salvation. The provision of salvation is an expression of God's undeserved kindness. (Eph. 2:8,9) However, the Bible is clear that more than a simple "I believe in Jesus" is necessary. I think you are right that our obedience (or good works) should not be performed out of religious obligation. It should be genuine and from the heart. But is is necessary. Hebrews 5:9: "And after he had been made perfect he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him." Serving Christ is something that we do willingly. I really like Psalm 110:3. It states that principle beautifully. Faith and obedience really go hand-in-hand. You can do as many good works as you want but if you have no faith you have no salvation. If you have faith but don't act in harmony with that faith (not avoiding the works of the flesh mentions in Galatians for example) then you have no salvation. (James 2:14, 26) The majority of people (including many Christians) want to have their ears tickled. (2 Timothy 4:3) They want to hear what makes them feel good and requires little effort.
I hear ya. There are plenty of church goes that will never see heaven, plenty of good people will be burning in hell. You do have to do a bit more more than believe-you have to GIVE you life to Him, OPEN your heart to him. Ever had this conversation-Even Satan believes in God, but I don't think we'll be seeing him in heaven either. Yeah-that's always a popular line to toss into conversation LOL But think about it, it makes sense....
Sitting in a church doesn't make you a Christian, any more than sitting in a garage makes you a Buick (or a Toyota, or a Chevrolet, or a Honda, or a Ford, or a .....). It's not about religion, it's about relationship. You can "practice your religion" all you want, but you'll never get it right without Jesus in your heart, being both Savior and Lord of your life. Satan "believes" in God, and knows the Scriptures as well as anybody, -- and trembles -- but it doesn't make him righteous.
And there's where I have a similar delima with people, because I believe baptism is also necessary. Repentance, prayer, etc. aren't enough. I don't find very many people who agree with me, but I just have to keep the door open to those who really want to discuss scriptures. There are a lot of people who truly believe putting their butt in a pew will save them. There are a lot who believe bowing to an idol will save them. All of those people probably came to their conclusion as a result of study and/or prayer (although some blindly follow their parents or friends without question). I never discount how a person came to their conclusion. I simply offer the reason mine is different. It's up to each of us to study for ourselves and question everything we hear. Everything. Like I teach my kids... follow the Bible, not mom & dad. The Bible isn't something to be debated as if salvation is a contest. It's a book of study for people with open hearts and minds. People get hurt feelings and walk away because they don't like being told they're wrong. I like to believe I have a soft heart, and that if someone shows me I'm wrong, I'll change my ways.
http://sharejesuswithoutfear.com/templates/System/default.asp?id=27043 Here's one way to gain the confidence to speak up. This is a book you can buy and read. http://www.campuscrusade.com/fourlawseng.htm Here's another. You can print this off and carry it with you. Better: order some of the tracts and read it with someone you want to share with. http://theromanroad.org/ One more. http://contenderministries.org/romanroad.php Same approach, a little different. Mentions baptism as an act of obedience. http://www.gotquestions.org/Romans-road-salvation.html And once again. http://www.allaboutgod.com/the-roman-road.htm This one has some "what do I do now?" followup.
This is a good conversation. I think one of the hardest thing about being in the U.S. is that we are called a "Christian" nation. Or at least we have been in the past. Our culture is so far from being Christian now, but people still might think that it is "Christian". So, why would there have to be a change of heart to be a REAL Christian. I think in other countries, there is such a difference between Christians and the other religions that maybe it is easier to see the truth of it. I am not sure I am making sense.
That actually makes perfect sense, cabsmom. If I'm not mistaken, that was the general feeling throughout Christiandom before the Great Enlightenment -- people were raised in church, knew how they ought to behave, lived according to the principles they knew were in the Bible (or thought they could get away with), knew the Bible pretty well, taught the Bible, had theology degrees, preached, all that -- but they had missed out on the Most Important Thing: a relationship with Jesus. When they discovered that, real Christianity could then take hold.
Then how do you explain the baby who is stillborn? Or the miscarried child after conception? You think they rot in hell??? I have yet to find a single scripture that says you go to hell if you are not baptised. Every single scripture says you are to get baptised, just like you are SUPPOSE to be a good person, or SUPPOSE to tithe...but the Bible does not say that baptism is a part of what gets you to heaven. Every single emphasis is on the heart and belief in Christ. Period.
We actually don't go to church at all, and don't homeschool for religious reasons, but I still consider us good Christians. Rather than sitting in church on Sunday mornings our family chooses to go hiking, pick up litter around our community, help a friend, etc... I teach my children to be good people, to put others needs before their own, and to appreciate the world around them that God has give them. We talk about God, the bible, but we also talk about all the other religions that are out there in the world.... Not sure if that make us "good" Christians or not, but we are comfortable with ourselves! Danielle
I got this from a wonderful friend of mine, who also happens to be one of the elders at our church. I asked him to explain how works, such as baptism, do not earn our way to heaven. I thought I'd share. As we think about our salvation and place a prerequisite of baptism into the mix, the cross of Jesus Christ is nullified. If the argument that we are required to be baptized before the death of Jesus Christ restores our fellowship with God were to stand then we would be able to gain God's favor through our own actions. Can our own works truly gain God's favor? All throughout the Old and New Testament the fact that man is helpless before God to obtain His favor is evident. To say that baptism is a prerequisite to salvation is in essence to echo the thoughts of early Christians who believed that circumcision was a prerequisite to salvation. As we read Romans the Apostle Paul is confronting this belief. Was there any benefit to a person who was circumcised? "But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of the Jews only? Is He not the God of the Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. Do we then nullify the Law through Moses? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law. What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For is Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? 'Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.' Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 'Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, and whose sins have been covered. Blessed it the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.' Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, 'Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness." How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised." Romans 3:21-4:12 Consider Romans 4:10-12 carefully. Abraham was credited righteousness long before he became circumcised. The circumcision was as sign and "a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised". In the same way when a believer is baptized it is a sign of the faith that they have in Jesus Christ. The baptism is an outward expression of the existing fellowship a believer already has. It is not a requirement but an identification with Jesus Christ as Lord.
