I was thinking about the big "S"-socialization just now and a thought popped into my mind. There are many students who master the art of public (private) school socialization and become quite popular only to find out a year or so after school that the popularity was only surface deep and short lived. That is not to say that some of those same people won't have successful lives and great friends, but the kind of acceptance that takes place in middle schools and high schools is not always genuine. Of course, there are some people who graduate and feel lost after realizing that they just aren't the biggest thing next to sliced bread everywhere they go. What do you guys think?
I have absolutely NO FRIENDS left from my early days (up to age 25). None. Scratch that ... those I have are my spiritual family. I'm talking about "friends"... like from high school and college. I was never the big man on campus or anything like that, but I did have friends/boyfriends, etc. We've lost touch, and I like it that way. :wink:
hmm.. I don't know. My sister wasn't popular in the traditional sense, but she was well-liked. She still maintains several friendships from hs and college. My dh was super popular in high school- and honestly it was part of my attraction for him (years after we'd both graduated). EVERYONE wanted to be his friend. I think it's a charisma thing maybe? ds has some of that as well (we went to a halloween party and one boy (a bit younger) he had just met was following him around like a puppy even though there were tons of other kids there.) Dh is still one of those people who maintains friendships without trying- people he hasn't seen in 5 years will call him out of the blue. I wish I could say something from my own experience but socialization for me in ps was a travesty. I learned that I was different, and that I didn't care enough about fitting in to be liked. Being nice wasn't good enough if I wasn't willing to lie, and it certainly didn't make up for not having the 'right' clothes/hair/whatever. Most of my thoughts about how rough that sort of socialization is on kids come from MY experiences (although I wish I could just block that garbage out). My dh, though, is living proof that the wonderful movie high school stuff does happen for SOME kids in SOME schools, and those kids go on to be just as popular later in life. (dh also has numerous friends from his high school days, and it's been close to 18 years since he graduated)
Having just recently turned down my invite to my 20th reunion, this is a timely subject. I saw "popular" kids get away with everything from sexual harrasment to bullying to vandalism, and it really made me leery of anyone who would be accepted by their "in" group. Socialization at my ps looked like an episode of Survivor. Photos of my reunion(along with comments) were posted on FB, and after looking at them, I decided that popularity is only as lasting as the latest fad. None of those "it" people had personality traits that made them the In group. It was all about money, clothes and sports. Some of the "losers, geeks, band nerds, and goth freaks" are the business owners, college professors, and such that are the cool kids' boss! I say all that to say this, PS socialization in my opinion does nothing to train people for the interaction that takes place in a real, actual life. It is shallow and fleeting and based on factors that never include character, charisma, or intelligence.
I didn't mean to overgeneralize, because obviously there are many really good people who can maintain relationship because of that. I also shouldn't stereotype people. I remember being so impressed with a cheerleader that I met when we moved, because she was a sincerely nice person. That is not the case all the time, but I have to remember that individuals are just that- individuals. I guess I just think this socialization idea is an idea gone wrong. People tout the idea of how kids in schools learn how to get along with others by being around people of all different backgrounds, personalities, and such. I think where the idea goes wrong is the fact that they are all at such vunerable ages. They are trying to formulate who they are and they are being bombarded with different ways to fit in. This will not always work in their future.
I COMPLETELY agree. I'm going to open myself up for criticism here because I have no scientific data for what I'm about to... speculate. Extroverts by nature are wired to get along with people. ps might provide some measure for them to fine-tune that, but by Nature they have that gift. Introverts just.. don't. Being social in that context is a struggle. Even as an adult, I don't really know how to segway in a conversation from small talk to indepth stuff, and I really work hard for new friendships. ps taught me nothing socially because it was like listening to people speaking in a different language- I didn't learn it, just learned to be afraid because I couldn't speak it, too, and any misstep with my accent meant I would get beat with a stick. My point is.. I agree. I think if you are already a social creature, ps might provide some small benefit socially (if you manage to avoid the other stuff and don't get sucked into the shallow culture) although I don't think it outweighs homeschool by any stretch of the imagination. And if you NEED to be taught the social ropes, ps is the WORST place for that to happen. Perhaps I don't understand what they mean when they talk about socialization in ps- to me it means being able to get along with most people, knowing how to compromise, knowing when it's time to bow out or stand up for oneself. I feel like it means being able to express oneself clearly, and to have sympathy and empathy for other people. These days, a year after our ps nightmare ended, I can't imagine how I thought ps would begin to teach that to my children... and by the time they got home, they were too tired for me to teach them, either.
Meghan, I agree with you 100% and I have realized that if someone is homeschooled and shy, people will often blame homeschooling. On the other hand, if someone is in public/private school and shy, most people don't blame the schools. I went to public schools all my life and (gulp) I went to 4 different high schools and I was very shy. I was shy to the point of people thinking I was a snob. If only I had had the courage to cry out, "I am not a snob, I am just deathly afraid to speak to anyone." I usually could make one or two good friends, but I never had a crowd around me. The sad thing about only having one or two good friends is that for several years they kept moving away from me. My sister wasn't shy and she was somewhat popular and "went" with a different guy just about every week. I, on the other hand, went on 1 date in all of my school years. Now, I am not really shy. I really give God the credit for helping me with many things including my past shyness. I started slowing coming out of my shell after I started working full-time. I worked in a fast food restaurant for a few years and I also waitressed for many years-you have to learn how to speak to strangers. Fast forward to the present--I am really enjoying my new freedom to speak to just about anyone. I work in a factory and I love meeting co-workers and new people. I try to make a point of introducing myself to new people and if I have time- to get to know them a little. I sometimes wonder what they think of me, but I have been pleasantly surprised by how they approach me after that. Most the time, they greet me or I greet them and it is great. We don't always get to talk much, because of the noise level and the distance between work stations. Anyway, I am taking my post in a slightly different direction, but I want to encourage people who are shy--- You don't have to be shy all of your life necessarily and if you are shy--don't be ashamed, there are many shy people.
Hi all, I don't post here much. Maybe once ever. But, this topic is very near and dear to my heart these days. My dh and I are both introverts and both went all through public school. Dh had a lot of friends but was pretty quiet unless he was in a group he was comfortable with. I had a few friends but could dance and so ended up with all the popular girls on the drill team. Really weird being on the drill team and in IB Organic Chemistry as a Senior. I would get demerits for having to go to chem lab after school causing me to miss practice. Anyway, my friends were all over the map from some of the popular kids (kind of) to the class nerds. But only a few really close friends. Only a few of which I keep in contact with. FF about 10 years and dh and I have our firstborn child. Our son. Who has autism. Years of therapy, me leaving a career in medicine to be his primary therapist working with consultants all over the country I *appear* to have "come out of my shell" but not really. I just HAVE to get along with lots of people to help my son. Well, after a ROTTEN kindy year we decide to homeschool our son for 1st and 2nd. He makes some of the most enormous social progress of his life during those 2 years. (We did 2 years of pre-K so he is 7 and 8 during those years). By this summer he is asking to go to school. After a summer of agonizing, we decide to put him in private school. He is academically and musically gifted and so we figure that the strong curriculum would be of great benefit to him. Plus he knew a few kids there from his 2nd preK and his K years. Well, the curriculum was a great match but the homework load was not. Think 1hr 15mins on average per night for a 3rd grader and 2-4 hrs on the weekends. That does not include his silent reading at night or flashcards. So, after 6 weeks of watching this my dh and I (and our son) couldn't take it anymore. We/he did not spend YEARS and tens of thousands of dollars on therapy for him to get to have social experiences with other kids for 20 mins a day at recess and 15 mins at lunch (first 10 min had to be silent). So, my son, who has the work ethic of a top executive never ONCE complained until about 6 weeks in when he looked at me with his eyes welled up with tears and said, "I can't do it anymore." "No buddy, we don't want you to." We pulled him out of the private school. So, a week off and we put him in public school. No homework. Lighter curriculum but LOUD, CHAOS, very little behavioral control. By this point our consultant has come into town and told us that our son, if he were to be officially re-evaluated, would no longer qualify for any diagnosis. Now we are in our 8th week there and it is a social NIGHTMARE. My son is kind to everyone. He is introverted but LOVES to play and have a big old time with his friends and cousins at home, in the backyard, at family gatherings, at the pool, etc. He is very charismatic. He has all but shut down. Yesterday he spent the entire day at school....7 hrs....and spoke basically to no one. It is too much for his personality. At this point, it is PERSONALITY. If you saw him at home with his neighbor buddies in the backyard you'd never in a million years know that he had autism. But, he is not comfortable enough in a chaotic, overcrowded environment to socially flourish (just like his mom and dad). One of my sisters says, "But public school is REAL LIFE. How will he ever learn to cope with the chaos of REAL LIFE if he isn't in public school?" My dh and I say to that, "REAL LIFE is what you make it. We have never, since our public school days put ourselves so that we are consistently in a place of chaos. We wouldn't thrive in that and so we don't do it." His spark in his eye is fading. We feel we have taken a social step backwards BECAUSE he is in school. He is coming home at semester and we are going to go back to all of our fun stuff, all of our fabulous social experiences, his enrichment school 1day/week and I will be ever so thankful when my wilty little flower is standing upright and blossoming again. Public/Private school works well IF the school is a good match for your child's personality but if it isn't a good match it is day after day, month after month, year after year of stress. That is no way to spend your childhood. I am so thankful and feel so blessed that we have options in our family so that year by year as my children's personality develops and they understand what makes themselves tick better, we can try different things. I rambled on and on about my son because he is the one who really highlights the ability of homeschooling to socially educate your child and that finding the right educational environment for your kiddo is so paramount to feeling secure in themselves. But, my daughter (who is typically developing) shows that also. The private school was a good match for her. Darned near perfect. But, in addition to the homework load issues, we had some other issues that led us away from the school. Public school and the huge class sizes have made her lose her spark some as well. She is frustrated and cooked by the time she gets home many nights. She is the one begging to homeschool interestingly enough. When I was talking to my other sister about this this morning she said, "I'm so glad you are addressing it. My dh and I noticed a couple of weeks ago when we were with you that your kids didn't seem like themselves and were kind of hard to engage. I'm glad we are having them over for a sleepover Saturday so that we can just relax and have fun. Sounds like they need it." I don't think it matters which educational choice you make for your kids as long as it is a good fit for your kids. If they are in the wrong environment, no matter what it is, it is a "set up for failure." That's just my 2 cents.
