Did you know this about Common Core?

Discussion in 'Homeschooling' started by Lindina, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Basically, I am against anything that will place decision making in the hands of politicians and educrats, rather than in the hands of the teachers themselves. Teachers need to have the flexibility to do what needs to be done to teach the subject, not have their hands tied.
     
  2. Lindina

    Lindina Active Member

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    Steve, when I was in high school, there was only one diploma but several ways to get it. You could go the college-bound route, or the vocational route. College-bound kids could take 4 English, 3 math, 3 science, and 3 social studies, PE was required 4 years, and there was room left over for a few electives (for me that meant Band and Typing I, and my Senior year I elected to take a study hall, the only one I ever got).

    On the vocational route, the boys (or girls who wanted to) could "major" in agriculture, which meant 4 years in shop classes, learning to weld, work on engines, as well as learn about agribusiness and agriscience. These were hands-on courses, which some considered "crip" courses, but when they graduated they could either get a job or go to a tech school for certification in welding or whatever they chose. Girls or boys could take business math, bookkeeping, accounting, typing I and II, shorthand (they still used such a thing back then), office practice, business English... and when they graduated, they could either get a job or go to tech school for certification in something related to office management. One of my classmates got a job not long after graduation as the school secretary! (And she's still doing that kind of job but at another school.) Girls (boys could too if they wanted to, but none ever did) took Home Ec (homemaking skills) and learned to cook, sew, entertain, decorate, shop economically and manage home finances, and learned about child development and parenting. There was a Band elective, and some actually got scholarships to college for being able to play music, while others just learned a lifelong skill.

    Then NCLB came in full force, and ALL of those classes disappeared! That entire route was done away with, in favor of teaching all kids like they're going to college (which of course is SO unrealistic!). No funding for ag, no funding for Home Ec, and the office skills classes got downgraded to "keyboarding" and "recordkeeping". Period. The rest vanished, including most music programs. They didn't have to do away with all that, because they WERE ALREADY preparing kids for life. Not only that, but Algebra I has gotten divided into Algebra IA and IB, which means TWO years are spent at it -- because kids are getting to high school without their basic math skills.

    Were there dropouts? Yes, and there will always be. Some dropped out so they could take their GED and get on with their life. Some probably/certainly should have been in special ed classes, but there were no such things until I was in high school. There was no concept of mild LDs, nor help to remediate. Kids just failed and repeated until they were so far behind and discouraged that they just dropped out at 16.
     
  3. Lindina

    Lindina Active Member

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    Yeah, that, Jackie!
     
  4. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Lindina, shop and home ec were cancelled because the insurance companies started charging big bucks, "in case" someone cut off their finger in woodshop, or burnt their hand in cooking. Same with Driver's Ed. It was offered for free in the high schools when I was a teen; now you MUST pay big bucks to take it privately if you're under 21.
     
  5. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    It's sad to hear how practical courses have been replaced in recent years. By the time a student completes their education, they should have learned everything they need to immediately start a career or vocation. Sadly, though, even students in supposedly sought-after subjects can't find a job - and it's in part because they still have too much to learn. By far the most important route to securing a job is still who you know, not what you learned.
     
  6. martablack

    martablack New Member

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    Our local High School has Shop classes and Home Ec.

    My oldest is taking Metal Shop this semester.


    They also offer Driver's Ed (for a price) before school. From what I understand it is cheaper through the school, then one of the private driver's schools.

    Electives are very slim though. Metal Shop is his only elective this year. And they require quite few to graduate.
     
  7. junebug

    junebug Member

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    I have been reading the posts and went and read a few articles...and one question keeps coming to mind. Why does the federal government feel it's necessary to profile as many people as possible from the youngest age possible?
     
  8. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    I'm guessing because they feel the need to address discrimination against minorities, the disabled, immigrants, and so on. While there's a role for legislation to address discrimination and to support the "underdog", in the end it boils down to our personal attitudes and behaviors. I'd much sooner assume personal responsibility for my family's attitudes, and speak out when others are not being given the opportunities they should, than allow the government's tentacles to strangle progress and reason.

    Take a case in point: I've criticized both the private school our children once attended and our church because they are all-white. This is a total disgrace, and it's to some extent a reflection of attitudes. Both the school and the church have what it takes to remedy the matter. We don't need the government to profile them and their members in order to monitor and fix the situation.

    On the other hand, if we don't speak out and act, then we can expect the government to step in - so it's really up to us.
     
  9. martablack

    martablack New Member

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    There is so much wrong with the above link. I'm not going to fling mud, but please do some research on any and all the stuff mentioned above.
     
  10. junebug

    junebug Member

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    I should have clarified I posted as another example of what's to be found while researching.... not as a statement of fact or belief....no intentions of offense.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2013
  11. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Actually, what was stated in there I've found again and again. What exactly do you find wrong with it? Not being obnoxious, but if you have facts to the contrary, I'd like to know.
     
  12. Lindina

    Lindina Active Member

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    Pages 13, 27, and 33, especially. Yup, that's how I see it.
     
  13. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    Well, it's a general rule that anyone who has to resort to Godwin's Law doesn't really have a case. That, for sure, makes me very suspicious of the purpose and objectivity of the article.

    For me, the real issue is the usurping of state's rights by federal government. I don't see any sinister motive here other than a political power grab.
     
  14. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    No, it's not a general rule. "Godwin's Law" was written NOT as a law, but for people to consider carefully before comparing something to Hitler or Nazi Germany. It doesn't mean that sometimes the comparison might be warranted.

    I agree, the issue is usurping states' rights. It's also an issue of parents not being able to control the education of the children. But the reality if the situation is that this WAS done in Nazi Germany. Not saying that is the government's intention, but we also need to learn from past mistakes and avoid them if at all possible.
     
  15. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    It's done today in almost every country in the world, except the US. The fact that nazi Germany pursued a standard curriculum has little meaning. The issue is that, unlike those other countries, this country consists of united States, with those states having authority for education. There's been a clear movement in recent years, with governments from both parties, to centralize power at the federal level.

    I have no problem with the government issuing standards of some type that students should meet and states then choosing to sign up or not to sign up to them. It would undoubtedly help those families that move from state to state. It would also provide homeschooling families with a reference point. The problem comes when the federal government mandates and/or gets down in the weeds about curriculum details.
     
  16. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Steve, that's pretty much what the Federal Government HAS done. It's set up "standards". The states don't have to adopt them. HOWEVER, federal money is tied up with those standards. A state that chooses not to adopt them loses big bucks. And tying the ACT/SAT/GED into it adds even more pressure on the states. And, as far as "almost every other country in the world", why should that matter? I suppose Sweden and Germany, countries that literally sends in the police to kidnap homeschooled children, are included in that!
     
  17. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    Well, because the implication is that a nationally defined core curriculum leads us down the path of nazi Germany (the article clearly implies this), whereas that's nonsense. Almost every country in the world has a national curriculum, but not every country in the world is a modern-day nazi Germany. We might as well say that the use of toothpaste makes us like nazi Germany.
     
  18. Lindina

    Lindina Active Member

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    No, Steve, they're not all Nazi Germany, BUT many are far more socialist that I'm comfortable with in The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. There never should have been a federal Department of Education in the first place! There was already a de facto national curriculum based on the several nationally-standardized achievement tests that schools use to assess student progress. There are some few choices among those, sure, as there should be. But it should be up to the states how much they'll depend on those tests and evaluate schools' overall performance. The feds should NOT be into education as deep as CC; it's supposed to be up to the states. In my honest opinion, there should be no federal money attached to education AT ALL. It should be up to the states how they'll support public education.
     
  19. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    And I agree with you. The federal government is overstepping its intended power.

    As quoted in an earlier post, though, it really doesn't help the many families who are mobile and whose children move from state to state. More detail would help in that regard, so long as states choose to adopt it.

    I agree with you. The federal government is, in effect, bribing state leaders into accepting their curriculum. It's just the same with healthcare.

    The pendulum tends to swing. Right now, there's a big land-grab by the federal government, but over time there will be a backlash. Then the states will take back their power. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would expect the current trend to be temporary. Let's see how things are in another 20 years' time.
     
  20. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    I don't expect the current trend to be temporary. The feds aren't going to give up the power they've managed to usurp from the states.
     

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