Immuninizations

I'm really struggling with getting my kids vaccinations that the school requires them to have.. They do have some, but not all of the series.. The ones that they are wanting them to have are boosters.. With the exception of the mengingococcal vaccine that was apparently not something they had to have back then and they have not had a single one of them... I'm seriously scared to death to get them.. It didn't bother me when they were little, but once they turned 4 I decided NO MORE. That's when I decided that there was too big of a risk with some of our family members who have autistic children who were perfectly fine before their shots.. I feel that way with all except the tetnus.. We get that one.. Chicken pox, I would much rather they just have them.. I had them and so did everyone else I grew up around.. I really don't see the issue.. My daughter has already had 5 doses of dtp and I don't want to give her more.. She's due a booster,but I just don't feel like one more shot is going to change her immunity to this disease.. She's MORE than covered with all the shots she has had in that series.. Insite anyone?? Am I being weird? I already filed exempt with the state several years ago, but second guessed that decision with the measles outbreak here in Texas. But they had all their required shots for that already.. After talking with hubby, he said to not get the shots to give the school the exemption papers.. I just want to do what's best for my kiddos. If shots are it, then I want that. If they aren't, I don't want them..

 

I did not want to give DGS vax when he was a baby, and since they were living with us and dependent on us, I got my way for awhile. I argued with the pedi about it - I finally got her to admit that she had never seen (and she was not a new doctor) a case of diphtheria, had had one case of whooping cough (not too bad) but the kid went in the hospital and was cured, and that if he's not playing in an old hog pen with rusty nails in it, his chances of getting tetanus were extremely slim. Besides, even if you get tetanus, and live through it, you can still get tetanus again, so where's the immunity? If I can get a "tetanus only" shot in case of an injury, why can't they do the same with the little guys? She admitted that MMR has been associated with risks of autism (I told her that even if it's one in a million, this was my only grandchild and if he's affected, that's 100% for me), even higher than I had thought. When I was a baby, my mom told me, I had both measles and rubella before I was a year old, and I had the mumps on my 7th birthday, which I well remember. So I prevailed for a couple of years, but then they moved out to DIL's parents and they SO drink the koolaid (believe everything the doctors say). So they caught him up. Fortunately, he's okay. The second DGS has had all his and he's okay too. Including the chicken pox one, which I think is just stupid. I survived the chicken pox too, and so did my daughter in her turn. Now, if an adult chooses to have a shingles vax, that's entirely their business...they're an adult.

I'm thinking that your kids are old enough, big enough, immune enough by now that their bodies can handle the meningitis one(s) without much danger. My daughter had to have that one when she went to college because it wasn't available before, but was then required. A whole bunch of her classmates went together, because they hadn't had it before either. But they were all 18.

When those kids were babies, there weren't as many required vax back then - something like only one shot every 3-6 months, or something like that. Now they have something like 3 shots containing 7 different serums all at one time! I convinced my daughter to at least delay her daughter's schedule, but finally the pedi convinced her to catch her all up at once! Which was like 5 different shots in one day, with I don't know how many vax in them total! I was horrified.

What I hate is that they keep saying they've removed all the mercury, but there's still thimerisol, which is mercury. AND they have to give these combinations, like DTP and MMR, instead of just one med at a time ("well, this way they don't have to be poked so many times"... I'd rather be able to pick and choose and decide on the schedule myself, thank you very much!)

Can you tell I'm opposed to infant vax? With teens and adults, sure, they might have a need to have some vax at some point, like when meningitis had an outbreak in colleges, but their bodies are more mature and I don't think they'd be likely to become autistic from ONE vax (at a time, if more are needed, like for travel to a foreign country) at that age. Did they ever decide if the multiple vax given to our military was related to Gulf War Syndrome??

 

Just for the record, all six of our children had all the recommended vaccines and had no problems. My older daughter is now a PA, and my oldest son is a nurse, and they both strongly recommend giving the vaccines. The reason why some diseases are rarely encountered these days is because of vaccine programs.

On the other hand, if there's a family history of reacting to a particular vaccine, I can understand your reticence, and it's understandable.

Personally, I sign up early each year for the 'flu vaccine - and have already had it for this 'flu season. I have not suffered from the 'flu since I started taking the annual vaccine.

 

We quit vaccinating our children. Find the vaccine exemption form for your state. There should, at the very least, be a religious opt out.

Research it! Don't just do it because doctors and the CDC tell you you should!

Sorry, but big phrama has too much pull in our government (telling which vaccines are needed) which have doubled (maybe tripled) since the early 80's. And don't just ask your doctor, did you know doctors get money if all their patients are fully vaccinated? http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/he...incentive-get-their-patients-fully-vaccinated

I read a study recently that linked vaccines to type 2 diabetes (something to do with getting vaccinated when some hormone level was low?)

Herd immunity is a myth. Side effects are numerous. It's your choice!

http://thepeopleschemist.com/reasons-dont-vaccinate-children-vaccine-supporters-shouldnt-give/

http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/six-reasons-to-say-no-to-vaccination/

And please, when you hear words like 'outbreak' or 'epidemic' find the numbers! 21 cases of a disease doesn't constitute either when the US population is 319, 953, 500!

Last year's flu vaccine was only 56% effective (virtually ineffective in those over 65 at only 9%)

Big Phrama and the CDC present the numbers so vaccines seem more effective (and needed) than they are http://www.naturalnews.com/033998_influenza_vaccines_effectiveness.html

 

We have the exemption forms already.. I Just pulled out the last one for my daughter.. I have to go get it notorized, but it will be given to the school this week.. We just got our second legal notice.. We have 30 days to get them or we are taken to court and she is kicked out of school.. I just really don't believe that they need all the shots.. We actually went to the doctor to get the shots and I was so nervous to get them, but was going to do it anyway.. They ended up being out of the shots that my kids needed that day.. I was so relieved but still torn.. TOTALLY NOT going to do it!!

 

Big pharma points to how "effective" polio vax were. But what they don't say is that it was already decreasing in frequency before they ever started giving the vax. I had shots, sugar cubes AND drops in the mouth. I only ever knew 2 people who actually had polio, pretty mild cases -- I'm not saying that all those kids who lived and died in iron lungs didn't actually have it, and I'm not saying that the vax was useless or anything like that -- I just never knew any families with it. All I'm saying is that big pharma skews their statistics.

But I can name 4 families (twice as many) who feel very strongly that their children who were vaxed at very young ages (4 or under) were damaged by the vax.

I had the smallpox vax twice at school. The first time was at the usual time, whenever that was, but it didn't make a scar, so the next go-round I got another one. It didn't make a scar, either. The nurse said that must mean I had a natural immunity... not unheard of.

 

It sounds like what you are doing is best and easiest, with just giving the school the exemption and only doing the shots you want.

We stopped vaccinating when my older son was little. My younger son has had none so far, but I haven't completely ruled out vaccines for them later in life. My older son stopped talking after his round of shots at around 12 months, and the doctor just said it was normal. I didn't connect the dots until later, so he did get more shots after that. I know this is anecdotal, but my vaccinated son has allergies, learning issues, and a weaker immune system. My unvaccinated son is healthier, has zero allergies or learning issues so far. Coincidence? Perhaps... But it seems to me that if the vaccine companies were so sure of their products' safety that they would gladly do long term studies of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children into adulthood.

The only vaccine regret I have is vaxing my older son on the recommended schedule.

 

To vaccinate or not is a very serious issue for many parents. Many have very strong concerns about it and rightly so it seems. Personally I tend to agree with JosieB on this.

I was present years ago at a speech by an author of some book (Sorry, I can't remember the title)... but he claimed that, at least back then, vaccinations were not a good thing for kids. That they had so many other things in them aside from that necessary for immunity that the risk was too great. Supposedly an entire country in Africa decided to stop vaccinations based on his work. Again this is dated information. Perhaps things have changed now.

When it comes to the well being of our kids it is incumbent upon us to be cautious.

 

I'm definitely of a different opinion on this - maybe in part because I have a daughter who's a physician assistant and a son who is a nurse. I never hesitate when it comes to vaccines. Even if a vaccine is only 60% effective, it still slows the spread of a disease. Also, I've traveled to many countries around the globe, and it's downright foolhardy (and sometimes just not possible) to travel to some countries without proof of vaccination.

There are cases when vaccination programs cause problems. AIDS, for example, most likely spread across Africa because of a polio vaccination program. Still, here in the US, situations like this are highly unlikely to occur.

I've had my flu vaccine, and so have family members. I'd urge others to get theirs.

 

I have forgotten much of the vocabulary of immunology, but still remember enough of the overall concepts to know that most of the websites that discuss immunizations contain material that is devoid of science.

They instead tend to parrot urban mythology and pseudoscience. They make bold statements with little reference to actual medical data. When they do contain references it is to other websites and likeminded authors who are also regurgitating the same information sources.

I can assure you reading a couple of articles by Dr. Mercola, or listening to a segment of Ophra or The View, and catching a Womans day article with quotes from Dr. Oz is Not doing research.

I listened to a man in San Franscico on the radio the other night who was railing against Flu vaccines. He has a degree in Biology, a phD from back in the 1960's, and Botany at that. Regardless, of his almost entirely outmoded education, he is not informed about how the immune system works.

Currently there are outbreaks of Polio in Syria. The civil war there has caused a disruption in the vaccination programs. Added to that are squalid living conditions that promote the spread of disease. The centers for disease control world wide are concerned for Austria and other European countries where the Herd immunity is less than 90 percent because there will be potentially be infected refugees entering these nations.

I have read many articles about ADD and ADHD. There are all sorts of pseudo scientific websites about this condition, just as there are for Autism and Autism spectrum disorders. They will fault everything from diet to parenting, to vaccines, to environmental pollutants. If I had a child that was effected I would also be trying everything I felt was reasonable. If I thought the timing of vaccines was related to onset of autism or another disorder in one child, I might also refuse to immunize others.

On a tangential note, I will add that these ADD ADHD websites do not discuss is that in the brain there are several different types of dopamine receptors. Within the Type 4 receptor group, there are variants of the receptor protein. These various morphologies due to differences in shape and location of bonding sights have a different affinity for dopamine. It is these DNA encoded varations that are now thought to account for most of what is termed ADHD as well as other "disorders" or psychiatric diagnosis. For example
http://www.jbc.org/content/early/2013/07/24/jbc.M112.396648.full.pdf

I say this because for me the content of so many websites about vaccinations might as well be calling for "Blood Letting" and declaring that the Earth is flat.

 

I'm going to vaccinate.. dd13 is NOT happy, but after looking at their shot records, they have had the majority of the shots already, just need boosters. I won't get the chicken pox shot, the flu shot, or the shot for human paploma virus for various reasons.. Tetnus has always been one that we get and I found out that it has the whooping cough vaccine built into it so my son ,that we think had/has the whooping cough, was fully vaccinated against it..

 

It isn't JUST about effectiveness, it's about the benefits outweighing the side effects. And any good Doctor or nurse should be telling all their patients that little tidbit about all drugs and procedures no matter how small or big or typical.

Sadly, big pharma has so much pull in our government and schools that today's doctors and nurses often have no clue what real health care is they blindly believe big pharma they have no critical thinking skills, they simply feed their patients a steady stream of the latest and greatest drugs that big pharma pumps out and the government endorses to line their own pockets...without questioning the side effects. (I speak from my own experience in nursing school and working in multiple hospitals, nursing homes, and assisted living centers)

Our culture thinks a pill or shot will fix or prevent EVERYTHING. Doctors should be PREVENTING this thought, rather than perpetuating it. I've SEEN patients go into a doctor with a cold, doctor tells them "it's a cold, go home, rest, fluids." The patient will ask "aren't you going to give me something? What am I paying you $100 for?" and the doctor hands out a prescription for an antibiotic that is useless against a virus to keep the patient happy.

That's not okay.

 

With respect, my daughter (PA) and son (nurse) would not agree with you. They don't blindly believe big pharma, they do think critically, and they do their level best to educate their patients. Their jobs are tough, and I don't envy them. They deal with difficult and sad cases every day, and I'm proud of the hard work and self-sacrifice they demonstrate daily.

For all its faults, the healthcare system is not a big-pharma propaganda machine or an excuse for government to line its pockets. It mostly consists of hard-working and sensitive individuals who chose a vocation that won't make them rich, can be very stressful, and who genuinely care for those around them. Nurses, in particular, are worth their weight in gold. Listening to some of the stories my son tells me, I couldn't do his job.

PS - while some doctors may give a prescription simply because a patient demands one, my daughter won't - which means she can face the ire of unreasonable patients. Doctors are humans too, and some patients can be real bullies.

 

incidentally, research is showing there is quite a strong relationship with diet. 60% of kids who've done a fail safe type diet can quit there meds! This is proper research. parents aren't always crazy.
But I agree, tons and tons of misinformation out there.

and while most nurses and doctors are fantastic, I have been prescribed antibiotics for nappy rash :/ cause it was bleeding slightly :shock: it was thrush. a week of nappy free time and applying breast milk fixed it. The amount of doctors who have laughed at my stance on breast feeding past one year is crazy. Most are great, some are human.

anyway. we vaccinate. I think the risks of the illnesses are much greater than the risks of the vaccines, even though they are not risk free.

If I were in your shoes, though. I'd make a list of the shots the school requires and cross off the ones they already had. Your post makes me feel you're not quite sure on what you actually still need to do. Don't worry about autism, it's not linked to shots. The only thing that links them is that the age at which autism becomes apparent is around 2. It's always been like that, long before we started giving mmr.
As for chickenpox. It's usually quite harmless. I ended up in hospital with it and with Bells palsy (I couldn't eat cause it was all paralysed). I'd rather give my child a weaker version of the virus. It's no fun to have a serious infection. That said, chickenpox is given to help prevent shingles in older people! it's not the chickenpox that is bad, it's the shingles.

I don't think there is a right answer to your last point, though. it's a hard choice. If you look at stats, the risk of, say, measles, is huge. 6-10% end up in hospital. The risk of vaccines are nowhere near that! There are also longer term risks to these viruses. Measles wipes out part of your immune system. Who says it isn't involved in the scary things like autism?
yes there are chemicals in vaccines. But are they any worst than what is in our food? radioactive fish from Japan, anyone? Or what we breath in! If you live near a harbour, you might not want to know what you breath in every day. It's pretty sad. We can't trust our world anymore.

sorry if I've rambled. Trying to procrastinate an assignment LOL high on chocolate.