So Far...Not So Good.

Discussion in 'Homeschooling' started by dawn, Sep 3, 2014.

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  1. dawn

    dawn Member

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    We started school last week. 5th grader has been doing amazingly well. He takes his plan and books and gets work completed without complaint. (Shocking, really, as he is usually the complainer.) He has been learning coding and been creating video type games in his free time. YAY!! Then there is the 7 year old. My usually compliant boy is making me second guess my abilities as a teacher/ mother. He fights me on EVERYTHING. It took him all day to complete one assignment. It wasn't too difficult not long. He just refused to do it. I know that as a homeschooling family we can adjust and make things better for him however, I am hesitant to do so because of how he is expressing his frustration. He is being so defiant and argumentative. We talk about it and he seems as though he understands that it is hurtful and wrong but then refuses to cooperate the next day. Being a former classroom teacher, I can honestly tell you that he has much less on his schedule than he would in a classroom. He loves learning. He really does. If I would write all his numbers and words for him, he would do great. He still writes many numbers and letters backwards sometimes because he rarely writes. I feel it is important that he get this practice now. I know he would love unschooling but DH is adamantly against that and I struggle with it as a full time option for us. Anyone have a child like this? Any advice? I am thinking of changing over to a three day work week and take two days for exploring and creative days. For example, today my ten year old rushed thought work so he could continue creating his game on the ipad. So perhaps have him do that kind of activity twice a week and "school" work the other three. As I sit here typing, I hear 7yr old singing, "boring..boring..why do we have to do school?" (he is working on handwriting...yes it is boring..) :confused::?:cry::cry:
     
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  3. TendinButterfly

    TendinButterfly New Member

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    oh no! I have no advice as this is our first year...but I can pray for you all! I know it would be heavy on my heart if it were mine struggling...to try and figure out how to reach him.
     
  4. Lindina

    Lindina Active Member

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    Sounds like a heart/discipine issue rather than an "I can't" do it issue.
    A couple of thoughts come to mind:
    1) Paddle his butt good then stand over him until he does it.
    Assuming that's not your preferred approach... :)
    2) Take away EVERYthing that's fun until he does his work. He can earn his stuff back by doing what you require first. A little at a time - one thing one day, another thing the next, etc.
    3) Stand over him (or sit with him) during handwriting practice, encouraging effort. Break it up into smaller segments, to give his hand time to rest. Make up a verbal description that you recite any time he writes during this practice time (such as "first the bat and then the ball- b" or "first the doorknob and then the door - d" or "down about half and then around, put his hat on - 5").
    4) Remind him that the sooner he gets school done, the sooner he gets to do something fun. Then make sure no fun until it gets done.

    Could it be that the work is actually too easy for him (other than handwriting)? or too hard? I don't know that I'd cut back to 3 days... If 3 days works for the 5th grader, then maybe for that one. But for the 7 yo, maybe 4 days. I'd have him work two, off Wednesday, then work two more, maybe? and off weekends, of course.

    What we usually do when 9yo DGS decides he doesn't want to do it, is sit right there, read off every question (including math), wait for him to answer, next question, next answer - it's amazing how fast the work can get done like this! We've done it like this since first grade, sometimes with many tears, but persistence on our parts has let him know that it WILL get done if it takes us all night. Sometimes we can give him an assignment and he'll just do it and let me know when he's done and we move on. But sometimes the old "broken record" technique and very close supervision are needed.

    I dunno because I don't know your child. But good luck finding what works for him.
     
  5. Lindina

    Lindina Active Member

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    Oh, I forgot the timer. Explain that if he really applies himself for x-number of minutes (maybe 15 to start with, not more than 20) until the timer goes off, he can have x-minutes break - like 5 or 10. Then another work segment, then another break. etc.
     
  6. CrazyMom

    CrazyMom Banned

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    Someone bigger hitting someone little to get their way...is the definition of bullying. (It's also the definition of domestic violence)

    Before hitting your kid and looming over him like a monster (and making things 100 time worse and losing his trust forever)....it might be worth having this kid evaluated for Dysgraphia and other subtle processing disorders. (Dyslexia comes to mind, too) An otherwise enthusiastic learner...who becomes argumentative when he has to write...is a classic sign of these disorders.

    When a child who is typically compliant and cooperative reacts negatively to school work (particularly when an older sibling is setting a good example)...it could be a sign of an underlying problem. Get an evaluation to rule this possibility out.

    Good luck:)
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
  7. dawn

    dawn Member

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    I have thought about it being a processing disorder, but since he gets it ok some of the time I am going to give it a bit before evaluating. I know some of the things he is doing is normal to a point up until 3rd grade. He is a lefty as well. But, he will sometimes read words for right to left. and most of his numbers are backwards 50% of the time. That does concern me.

    Spanking has never worked with our boys. They don't care. Hovering over him while he refuses to work, frustrates me and then I am tempted to say things I don't ever want anyone to say to my child so I walk away instead. I agree, it is a heart issue. It is a battle of wills. I also understand his frustration. It is how I felt about school my whole life. It was not easy for me. It was boring. That five letter word looked like a million letters. I do take things/ activities away from him for the defiance. Unfortunately, what works is manipulating him and I just don't want to do that. I don't want to teach that to him. (Reverse psychology..."Ok fine don't do it. I don't even want you to do it anymore. I am not wasting my time.go play..." then he does it and tries to make me happy.) Though he gets it done well, I feel like a complete shmuck. If I let him do all his work orally, we would not have an issue at all.

    So this is how it ended today... He wrote a few words. I sat at the table for almost an hour. Finally, I told him to grab a book to read to me. (Another activity he hates.) He happily did to get away from the writing. He read a short book. I then told him if he got another book to read and read it well, we would be finished with writing today. He read a longer and more difficult book and did a great job. (He is hit and miss in reading too.) He is now walking throughout the house taking random pictures with the camera.

    Did I give in to him? Yes. I am not sure how I feel about it yet. He is 7. He SHOULD be able to write sentences without a problem. But he doesn't. I just don't want him to always think about writing/ reading as those things he was forced to do when he wasn't quite ready. This battle will rage inside my little head for eternity... I am now a homeschool mom. I was once a classroom teacher who had to had her students testing at a certain level or else... I must find balance.

    I truly am blessed to have this group. I feel like I have a place to ask questions, express frustrations and shortcomings and not be judged. I appreciate your responses and thanks for "listening" as I sometimes feel as though I need to pretend it is all great and perfect so as not to be judged by those who question my decision to do this.
     
  8. CrazyMom

    CrazyMom Banned

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    "If I let him do all his work orally, we would not have an issue at all."

    Again...this kinda suggests a processing disorder.

    If he does have one..it's certainly possible he'll grow out of it. Many kids do... though some need more help and can benefit from different stratagies. The wonderful thing about homeschool...is that you have the flexability to make compromises and adjust the schedule of certain skills.

    I think you're doing great. I don't think you caved in...I think you compromised and gave him an opportunity for success with another important skill. That's a smart move, if you ask me.

    So, you didn't have the success you wanted today with writing....well...**** happens. LOL.

    But on the bright side...you DID have tremendous success with reading. Awesome:)

    Celebrate the victories and just keep trying.

    Good luck!
     
  9. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    I agree with the timer.

    I also would tell my kids that it's OK to not do it now. Instead, they can do it later...like when their sibling is watching TV (knowing we NEVER watch non-educational, planned TV during school time), or when sports practice is scheduled (which means Dad is home, so I would get some back-up).

    I like the timer.

    You said you gave in to him. If you felt that way, then he probably felt you did, too. Which means it will be more difficult the next time.
     
  10. CrazyMom

    CrazyMom Banned

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    I've found that kids model by example. (Mine did, anyway)

    If you listen to them, have empathy for them, hear them when they are expressing frustration, cut them a little slack when it doesn't matter....

    They're a lot more likely to have empathy for you, hear you when you're expressing frustration, and cut you a little slack when it doesn't matter.

    They're like people that way. LOL.

    If you take time to build an empathetic understanding relationship with your kids when they are young and vulnerable....chances are good that they'll take the time to maintain an empathetic understanding relationship with you when you are old and vulnerable.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  11. MinnieMouse

    MinnieMouse New Member

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    I haven't read (but did skim) all of the other responses but I will say this....

    I have a dyslexic who NEEDS to type most of her work if I expect her to accomplish much. AND I have another with a processing disorder and when she was your son's age it was murderous to get anything accomplished. We transitioned to doing things orally and working on her processing so that as she is getting older she can write now. Also, typing is different and often helps.

    I say- whatever way he needs it is how you do it. As they get older and the strengths get stronger, their weaknesses fade and their coping abilities and experiences grow- things that were once impossible become easier.

    Just breathe and work with him. You've got this.
     
  12. CrazyMom

    CrazyMom Banned

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    "Just breathe and work with him. You've got this." :D

    Agreed!
     
  13. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    I will say that was very true with Faythe. She had focusing issues. If she had been in a "real classroom", they would have wanted to medicate her. But at 18, she now does very well.
     
  14. Lindina

    Lindina Active Member

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    Oh, I see you have difficulty with reading comprehension, CrazyMom. I guess you didn't see the purple italics and smiley that indicates a joke?
     
  15. Lindina

    Lindina Active Member

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    http://www.dyslexiagames.com/

    Take a look at these. They're supposed to be fun activities that actually help with dyslexia. Or even if it's not dyslexia.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  16. TendinButterfly

    TendinButterfly New Member

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    I was going to suggest the typing but MinnieMouse beat to it :) ...Our children are extremely fortunate in that they have the option to type or speak to text! WE didn't have the option growing up and I think it can be hard for us to recognize that there's a better way because we remember our options back in the day.

    I would try the typing..and the speak to text..really anything that would show him that's HE'S GOT THIS! ...He's still the one doing the mental thinking ...and as long as he's got the metal process down...you're good to go! IMO

    My dd2 learns differently from my other two children...she learns BEST if she hears it...it's not that she can't read...or write...she just gets it faster if she hears it. My other two..i can tell them something all day long...they have to see it for themselves. Every child is different, yanno?

    Best of luck to you!!
     
  17. Lindina

    Lindina Active Member

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    Back in the day, what worked with DS when he would take ALL day to do one math facts sheet, was to use the timer. First, I divided the sheet with lines into 4 or 5 sections depending on the size of the sheet and number of problems. I put a timer on and challenged him to complete just one section in the time I set (maybe 6 minutes when it should have only taken 5). With me standing over him (a few feet away, in the kitchen at the stove or the sink), he always -- ALWAYS -- got it done before the timer went off. Then I got to smile, pat him on the back, say good job. Then we did the next section the same way. The result was a sheet done in about 20 minutes instead of 2 days. This was back when he was in second grade PS and homework nearly every day was one of these sheets. (We didn't take him out until after 4th grade.) After only a few days of using the timer, one day he said he didn't think he needed the timer anymore, that he could do it without. And he did.

    "Standing over" doesn't always mean "looming like a monster". Sometimes it can mean "being nearby with help".
     
  18. CrazyMom

    CrazyMom Banned

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    Glad you were "joking" that spanking is an appropriate solution, Lindina. That shows growth! Proud of ya! :)
     
  19. Lindina

    Lindina Active Member

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    "SHOWS GROWTH"??? Not judgmental much, huh?? You have no idea where I've been or where I'm going. It's not for you do judge my "growth" as a person, a mom, a grandmother, or a homeschooler. Keep your opinions to yourself.
     
  20. CrazyMom

    CrazyMom Banned

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    Hey...call me judgmental or whatever you want. I really am proud of you for moving past telling people to hit their children. Good for you!
     
  21. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    She hasn't "moved past" that, and you know it very well. She's one of those "lazy" parents that believe in actually appropriately disciplining children when they do wrong.
     
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