You said that you feel like the oldest two became different people.....but you're talking about people who are in 6th and 8th grade. I think under any circumstances...home school, public school, wherever...those ages are going to come with some big changes. Developmentally...the big crisis of that age is autonomy from parents. They're going to change, develop some different ideas, have the puberty moodiness, challenge your ideas, find ways to have a different identity than you. It's a pretty normal part of the age. Personally...I would address the offending behavior...but I wouldn't be so quick to blame the school for it. It's her choice to behave like that. Make her accountable for her choices. Blaming the school (IMO) is just giving her a scapegoat. Lots of kids go to public school and don't behave like you've described. I think you should talk to the older kids pretty openly about your concerns about their behavior. Get some input from them on whether they'd like to continue to go to public school, or come home for home school. If they want to stay in public school, you might make an improvement in behavior a requirement for earning that privilege. Good luck
Ask yourself what's the worst that could happen in a PS or HS scenario, and if you're teaching from a Christian viewpoint, remind yourself that souls are more important than orchestral instruction. Talk to your husband, and more importantly, talk to God.
I do realize that kids change at these ages. It's just that is coincided with them going back to school. Then, over the summer it was like they were back their old selves by the end of the summer and then, BAM, back to school with the horrible attitudes again. There are teachers telling these children to cut the apron strings and make their own decisions. Encouraging rebellion, it seems. There is the cool mentality at school... you have to adapt or you will be bullied. The drugs, serious relationships with the opposite sex at such young ages, etc. Not good at all. I've thought the very same thing... these are their souls we are talking about. I'm trying to come up with a way to just afford private lessons.
I would ditto both of the above suggestions. I agree that change is inevitable in the jr-sr high ages but it does not have to be so dramatic as some kids act like it. I know my kids didn't go ballistic for the most part, they had a few little emotional quirks but we deal with them as they come up. Some of it is picking your battles, other things it is finding a way to redirect your tweens and teens before they get into their attitude. Getting their input is always beneficial to finding your way through to the right decision for your family. Using school choices as leverage helped my older child ( now adult) to buckle down on schooling at home, he wanted to go out for High school so when he corrected we let him to to private christian school. Prayer financed it for us pre choice and since God came through, so did we.
If kids are so suggestible...that just the environment of being at school causes them to abandon their values and become something weird....is the problem really the school? The teachers are right to teach the kids to make their own decisions. Kids who have experience with this skill are much more likely to stand up for themselves, uphold their own values, and not let others influence them. Kids who can speak for themselves and question authority...can say NO when it matters. The problem with teaching blind obedience....is that you never know who a kid might choose to be blindly obedient to. They might be blindly obedient to a friend with bad judgement, or an abusive boyfriend/girlfriend, or a crooked boss someday. Blind obedience can be very dangerous. It might seem counterproductive for teachers to insist that kids need to learn to challenge authority, think for themselves, and apply some objective reasoning.....but ultimately, these skills are VERY important to their safety and well-being. These skills...well developed...would prevent the objectionable behavior you're concerned about. Peer pressure will always be a concern....but again...questioning the authority of friends...is a huge part of questioning authority. It's a positive thing. It protects your kid and keeps his/her values intact. Something to consider: A kid who can say NO to a parent can usually also say NO to a friend. (at least there's an up side...lol)
MY only concern with teachers teaching to not listen to parents, and I know some who my older ds had tried to teach him that parents know nothing... he knew better of course and informed me of what they were saying. You need to keep an open concept with your kids regardless of home or away because the world is a dangerous place to toss a kid and just leave them alone to fend. The main thing we have to realize when we send our kids out to school is that it does not mean we are not still Parental Control kwim? It does not give a parent the right to say -- oh its not my fault my kid acts this way its the schools. I totally agree its our job to make sure our kids know how to behave and act accordingly at home or away. That said, work with your dd to get her behavior under control regardless of where she or your family choose to send teach etc.
CrazyMom, I think you are missing what I am saying and reading into things that are not there (I never suggested teaching blind obedience), etc. I did not give every detail, but I can tell you that it is public school that has changed them. I do understand what TeacherMom said... that they have to be able to behave outside of the home. That is completely true. However, going back to CrazyMom's comments... when you throw kids in certain environments all day, what do you expect? Children ARE suggestible. That is why so many people do homeschool... to help them gain a solid foundation before going out into the real world. Of course I know children need to learn make their own decisions. If it was as simple as that, I would not be complaining. However, I don't have the time or the want to go into greater detail. Just trust that I know what I am talking about, especially for my children.
Faith3 I understand what you mean and what seems to be happening. While sd was in ps middle school her personality changed. It was a slow building effect and in the end not a positive one. We pulled sd mid 9th grade (due to the influence of friends) and by the end of 10th grade even our Pastor was saying he noticed a difference in her. The comment was that she was more of the girl he first met when he came to our church. Middle school is a really hard time for kids and can really shape and impact them. It is hard for parents to know exactly what is going on in the classrooms, lunch rooms, the halls.... The person the kids show at one venue is not the person the kids show at others and at this age the difference can be dramatic.
One of the first things we noticed when we brought DS home after the fourth grade was his attitude got better. Oh, he had the same "teen age stuff" when he got older, but it was OUR boy not some creature from the black lagoon.
As a former public school teacher, I will say that if your child loves learning and has a good attitude all around he/she will do just fine in the traditional classroom. I had students that were learning and working way above grade level and I allowed them to explore above the curriculum whenever possible. If you are in a district that does not allow teachers to do that though and your children are higher level thinkers and genuine lovers of learning they may get discouraged. It is smart to let them explore this option and leave it open to coming back to Homeschool. My DS is in 5th grade and he was against homeschool at first but understood why we did it. (Originally for half a year due to a move.) Now he loves it. When asked why he loves it so much he says he likes that he doesn't have to sit around most of the day waiting for other students to finish work. He can finish and move on. He most likely will attend school again some day. We take it year by year.
mschickie and Lindina, that is what I mean. People who knew them before and after commented on how much they changed. One person (who doesn't necessarily like homeschool) said I should go back to homeschooling! That's how drastic the changes are. dawn, that is why I have already pulled youngest ds. Even though he placed into the gifted program, he still had to sit in class and learn absolutely nothing. He already knew everything last year (we had covered it in homeschool the previous year). Instead of moving him up a grade, they just let him sit there, bored. The teacher even told me he knows all the material, and tried to give him more challenging stuff to do, but basically the entire year was a waste (academically).
"However, going back to CrazyMom's comments... when you throw kids in certain environments all day, what do you expect?" Glad you asked this question....as it happens I have some experience with it. I sent my kid to public school at about the same age your kids are. She had exposure to all the same things...profanity, teen sex, drugs, rebellion, school lock downs, gun threats, parties, lots of bad choices going on around her. But here's the main issue I was trying to illustrate: You ask..."What do you expect?" As if she's helpless to reject these things. Here's what I expected: I expected my kid to take accountability for her behavior. I didn't blame other kids, the school, or other influences. I didn't give her an out, or pretend she was helpless. I expected her to take accountability for her choices. I expected her to treat herself, myself, and others...with compassion and respect. I expected her to have the maturity to be true to herself and her values. I never saw an attitude change or a personality change. She was the same well behaved solid kid she always was. Same good choices. Same enthusiasm for learning and living a positive life. If she had lacked that maturity...I would have never sent her to public school. I would have continued to home school her until she attained it. I'm not saying my kid was perfect....she did some boneheaded things like all kids will. But at the end of the day, she stood up and was accountable for her actions and her choices....regardless of the actions and choices of those around her, she owned her mistakes and she learned from them.
I have never heard a public schooler say they want to home school and the parents simply pull them out and home school them. Why question your decision to home school? Your children will always see the grass is greener on the other side and want to try the other thing. If you make a parenting decision, you should stand by it. I can see considering their ideas and if they make a good point, fine. But don't change just because they say so.
CrazyMom, I guess we are terrible parents with terrible children, and you and your children are perfect role models that we should all strive to be like. LOL. Or, I could say that some kids, in order to avoid getting pissed on and bullied, change their behaviors to fit in and not stand out... especially if they are small and the bullies tower over them. Sigh. Maybe, I agree. I just want my kids to be happy, so I do care about their opinions. In the end, though, I need to be the one to make the decision. As of now, I have pretty much decided to let them go this last year. DS will not go to public high school and dd will not go to public jr. high school.
I don't think you're terrible parents, and I don't think you have terrible kids. But I do think you'd be happier if you addressed the behavior instead of blaming outside factors. You make a lot of excuses. It's the school's fault. It's the teacher's fault. It's other kid's fault. They'll get bullied if they don't model crappy behavior.... At home? Seriously? Come on! You said: "DD is continuing with her awful behavior. She has a horrible attitude, says bad words, name calls, is extremely disrespectful, so on and so forth." Why not just address the crappy behavior? Set some limits. Give some consequences. Explain WHY the behavior has to change and what will happen if it doesn't. Explain how it could affect her future. Explain that she is 100% culpable for her actions and no one else's. You're missing out on a huge opportunity here and a really important life lesson....taking responsibility and making good choices....even where there's interference and distraction. I believe your kids are perfectly capable of making great choices and behaving appropriately. I believe if you worked on this....you could strike a really good middle ground....where your kids behave in a way you approve of, but still get to go to the school they prefer.
You know what, CrazyMom? I honestly don't care what you think at this point. I completely disagree with you and honestly think you are very into yourself. I haven't been on this forum in awhile, but I heard about you elsewhere. I heard you go on different threads and start trouble, and lo and behold... here you are! I looked at the locked threads, and guess what... there you were, doing the same thing you are here! Sorry if that's harsh, but it's the truth. Get off your high horse, stop reading into things that aren't there, and leave people alone! I'm sorry if you need to boost your self-esteem by judging others, but you aren't going to do that with me. I do not want your advice, or assessment of my situation. I can handle when someone disagrees with me, but you aren't going to come on here and assume I haven't addressed the poor behavior I've witnessed from my kids since they started ps (along with the many other assumptions you have made). You aren't going to read into things I've said and make poor assessments of the situation. You don't even know me or my children! On top of it, you have no idea how poorly your daughter behaved out of your sight... that's what so funny about the whole thing! Even if she wasn't affected by ps in any way (which is doubtful), that doesn't mean most kids are not! I've heard the stories of people sending their kids in and regretting it. This is not uncommon! Honestly, at this point, please just move along and bother someone else. I'm not interested in continuing this silliness with you.
We worked on addressing the behavior but it is a lot more difficult to work on the behavior when they are with the negative influences more hours in a day than they are with you. Sd left for school at around 7am many days (honor society meetings) and would not get home until almost 4 most days. Sd went to a good school, was in honors classes and yet still came under the influence of kids who ended up down the wrong path. I know that you want to respect your kids wishes Faith3 but having been there removing them as soon as possible, even if it is their wish to stay, is probably the best thing you can do. With sd we found out that she was talking with a guy at school (who we never met) and that they were planning on having her run away and move in with his family. There was nothing at home that indicated she was thinking this. Even when we looked back with 20/20 vision there were no indications. When we found all this out and contacted the boys family, they were fine with it and pretty much thought that was normal. Really??? The thing is if you are noticing changes that is really the tip of the iceberg, do not let the iceberg get too large, it happens before you know it.
Totally agree. I've heard stories where people had NO CLUE how much trouble their kids were getting into (or about to get into). It's not always obvious. They really are there all day long (ds doesn't get home until 4:15, and if he stays after school for practice, it's 5:30)! That's a long time! It's hard to make the decision. I keep thinking that one more year won't hurt, but maybe it will. I'm worried about having to start homeschooling this late (we'll be using K12 or Connections). Catching up might be difficult, I just don't know... never used it before.
What a sanctimonious bunch of BS. With a capital B and a capital S. Pardon my french. Who gives you the right to come on and act like you are sitting in the OP's house witnessing her redirection and discipline of her children? No where does the OP imply that she is sitting on her twiddling thumbs saying Oh My! What do I do? Should I try to talk to them? It seems incredibly thick of you to assume that she is not having heart to hearts or disciplining her child. Are you for real? I have seen threads where you assume a lot and go off but this takes the cake! You are acting as if the OP is just watching all this and not parenting. That is a bit much don't you think? Stop and read. You can read for content, right? Think it through before replying next time.
Here's my thought.....she can complain about the public schools....or she can get off her butt and homeschool her kids. Which is she choosing to do? She has a choice. In what universe is blaming other things for your kid's behavior good for them?
