Pre teens and teenager issues - help this frazzled mama!

Discussion in 'Homeschooling' started by Laura291, Nov 4, 2014.

  1. Laura291

    Laura291 New Member

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    My sweet sweet daughter has been taken over by a crazy teenage alien! :p She hit puberty and picked up an attitude that just won't stop. I don't even recognize her anymore. She's 12 years old and has become sassy, talks back, rolls her eyes, complains, stomps around, and is just down right disrespectful.

    Homeschooling has been so hard this year because she doesn't believe me anymore! Today we were finding Greatest Common Factors and I was showing her the short cut steps of finding multiples of a number, and how to list them in numerical order. "What's numerical order" so I explain that (whcih she already knows, she just wants to stall and be difficult) when she follows up with "Why should we have to put them in numerical order?" Then, "Why do I have to use the stupid rules for figuring out multiples, can't I just skip count?" and I explain how it'll save time, and she just got up and said, "I hate math" and stomped off. I yelled for her to come back and finish and she said, "Fine, but just because I don't need to listen to another lecture!"

    Does anyone watch Parenthood? I feel like she's turning into all those bratty kids! This is so unlike her.

    At our co-op, a friend of hers said "Hi!" and she didn't even smile. Just half lifted her hand to wave. I homeschool another 6th grade girl, and they both act this way. They just want to put makeup on each other and listen to music. I get rolling eyes when I put my foot down on the rules or try to keep them on task. At any social activity, these two stick together and ignore all the other girls. I am in tears saying this, but I think my daughter and her friend are "stuck up."

    Does anyone have advice, or can recommend any books that deal with this? I know she has hormones going through her, and being a teen is not easy at all, but I don't like the road she's on! She's also such a huge bully to her 14 year old brother - who has autism. I hate to see how she hurts his feelings. I just want my happy family back -- and these teenage aliens to leave us alone!!
     
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  3. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Sigh.... My girls weren't like that, but my youngest (boy) was when he turned 12 or 13. This year he finally has settled down a bit. I wish I had some advice, but don't. Just hang in there, and don't let her get away with being disrespectful.

    What really did it was when he got angry about his sister being on "his" computer. Phillip had been on earlier, and Faythe wanted it. My husband told Faythe to let it be, we'd be leaving soon, and when we got home, she could have it. So Faythe went on, and when we came home later that night, Phillip made a bee-line for the computer. Carl explained that he had promised Faythe a turn, and Phillip had a fit that culminated in stomping up the stairs, and using the "f" word as he did so. Quietly; I didn't hear him, but Carl sure did!!! We do NOT talk that way in our house, EVER!!! Carl let him know in no uncertain terms that it wouldn't be tolerated. He was off the computer altogether for close to a month, and then had limitations when he got it back. And I do think that was the turning point for him.
     
  4. Laura291

    Laura291 New Member

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    Thanks Jackie. I may have to start using some tough love around here too. Both my kids get away with too much, and don't listen as well as they should, and ignore their responsibilities too often. But the attitude that my daughter gives is getting to be too much. And punishment makes it worse. She's great at times, usually when we are out shopping together and being friends. But when it's time for me to be a parent, she loses it.

    Thank you!
     
  5. Tim@CBH

    Tim@CBH New Member

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    Why not ask your daughter if she can think of a better way to do the math? In a calm and honest way, of course.

    She's asking all these questions about why it's supposed to be this way, why not say "If you can come up with a better method, I'll let you use it."?

    I'd caution against reacting negatively and in an adversarial manner in every instance of such behavior.

    You mentioned your daughter hit puberty, which means that there are all kind of hormonal surges that do in fact effect mood, and mental processes.

    I urge caution. You're moving into an area of homeschooling that most parents get blindsided by. That's fine, but be aware that you're going to be experiencing a learning curve now too, and you don't want to react to your daughter in such a way that it actually harms your relationship with her in the long term. In fact, one positive I note out of your first post is that she's directing some of her irritations and attitude at the math, which is far better than it being directed at people.

    Definitely give correction where necessary, but also allow some exploration in the curriculum (finding another way to do the math, for example).
     
  6. ochumgache

    ochumgache Active Member

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    Puberty is tough, but it is not an excuse for treating you or others badly. I understand what you mean when you say punishment makes it worse, but I'd go with natural consequences instead. The difference is who is to blame. Punishment is seen as coming from you. Natural consequences are a direct result of something she did.

    It takes some work to figure them out, and it takes some serious resolve to not rescue them from them. So, for example, I had a teen who often kept us waiting and made us late. We tried many things, but nothing worked, because we always waited for her. We were the ones suffering the consequences for her sleeping in late, primping extra long or loosing track of time on the computer. So, we started telling her..."we are leaving an 8am. If you are not in the car at that time, you will have to ride your bike or stay home." We made sure that we kept the deadline to the minute, and if she wasn't in the car, we left without her. It only took a few times of being left behind; suddenly, she found that she could get ready on time. She was mad at me the first time, but she couldn't blame me. I'd made the expectation and the consequence clear; it was totally on her. Once we set the expectation, we didn't back down from it...ever. It was a bit exhausting, because I think our natural tendency is to just fix things for our kids...we love them and quite frankly, it's easier to just fix it than it is to listen to the whining or watch them struggle.

    Finding the "natural consequences" for your situation will take time. I don’t know what will work for you, but here’s a hypothetical situation that might be adaptable for your purposes. I’d first make her earn any privileges; anything beyond food, shelter, one or two sets of clothes and love is a privilege. I’d change the wifi password in the house, I’d disable the TV, and I’d not buy any more make up for her (that I’d make her earn money to buy). School and chores have to be completed before she gets access to those things. If she is rude to you during school, you tell her that you need to step away because you are not going to accept verbal abuse from her or anyone (that’s actually a health message to teach young ladies whether they are dishing or receiving it); then take a 15 or 30 minute break. She will learn that by sassing you, she delays her own reward. If she tries to walk away from a lesson, let her. When she wants her privileges later that day say, “Oh, I’d love to, but you didn’t finish your math. I’m busy now, but I’ll work with you in 15 minutes.” If she is still uncooperative, push the lesson off till the next day and do it in addition to the current day’s lesson. If it gets pushed into a weekend, then she goes without her privileges even on the weekend. It’s not punishment, because when she gets the reward is completely within her control. The hard part is not being drawn in an argument over it; you have to practice your bewildered look for when she tells you that you are being unfair. You should look as if she’s just said that it was unfair that gravity was keeping her from floating in the air. You can’t do anything about gravity, and you can’t do anything about getting her reward for her...that’s in her hands.

    Anyway, that’s my very long 2 cents... My second bit of advice would be to buy yourself some scented candles, bubble bath and chocolate and lock yourself in the bathroom for at least one hour a day to maintain your sanity until this stage passes.
     
  7. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Best advice I've seen offered here at the Spot in a long time!!! :D
     
  8. Lindina

    Lindina Active Member

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    By George, I think she's got it! Way to go, Alice!
     
  9. LLMom

    LLMom New Member

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    I am on my 5th teen (3rd girl). They are hard! My 13 year old dd is horrible right now, but I am not homeschooling her. I did last year. Our relationship has improved because of that, but when she is home, it is awful. My oldest, also a girl, I homeschooled all the way through. She was very difficult at times, but somehow we made it through. I outsourced as much as I could through coops and online classes. I think outside accountability helps a lot as they move into the teen years. I just wrote a post on my blog on how to lighten moms load when homeschooling older ones. It might have something that might help. (see signature)
     
  10. Tim@CBH

    Tim@CBH New Member

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    LLMom, follow up question, what is it in your relationship with your daughter that you think was getting in the way of homeschooling? You implied that the relationship was suffering during the homeschooling time so I'm curious to know your thoughts as to why. I know many parents dealing with homeschool burnout and I'm trying to understand the roots of that; how the parents are perceiving the situation.

    Totally agree about the accountability through the teen years. It's a sad state to be in, but the difficult thing I have found is accepting that as the adult my opinion is not valid until the teenager experiences prove otherwise. I have to state my case and stand back at times. I think parents often get drawn into arguments with their teens simply b/c they don't want them to fail, or be hurt, but the teen doesn't see it that way.
     
  11. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Phillip has an accountability partner now. Rachael has an older guy-friend from our old church. When she's in town, they often get together for coffee. So she was telling him what a pain in the butt Phillip was being, and he contacted me about meeting with Phillip on a regular basis. I agreed, but before we were able to set things up, camp came along. At the Senior High Campfire, the camp pastor went around and asked each kid what they were going to take away from camp. Phillip's reply was, "I need an accountability partner." So after campfire, I went up to him and asked if I could give him a suggestion for one. When I mentioned this guy's name, Phillip REALLY liked the idea. I informed the guy about this, so he just sat back and waited for Phillip to contact him. So now, it Phillip's idea, not us orchestrating it. And I do think it's one of the reasons for his improved attitude.
     
  12. Laura291

    Laura291 New Member

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    Thanks for the help! My daughter doesn't ask questions of process because she thinks there is a better way - she does it as a manipulating strategy. I'll be going through a problem with her and I'll say "then you take the 2 times the 3, which is....?" waiting for her answer. She thinks and thinks and thinks and I always just wait for the answer as if I had asked her the square root of 481. Sometimes she'll finally answer, but often she says "I don't know, you never taught me!" I do try the natural consequences, but they are often hard to come up with! When I know no learning is being done, I tell her she is clearly too tired that her brain isn't working and she should take a nap and do her school work later. But I feel like I have a toddler because while she's supposed to be napping, I'll catch her skyping a friend, or putting on makeup, or reading a book. I work from home 32 hours per week, so the deal with my kids is that homeschooling is a privilege which they much work at as well. It has to be a team effort. I don't have the time to "babysit" them all day. I do have the time to teach them, but then I expect independence while working on their homework, so I can work at my job. I'm not getting that from either child currently, but then I am getting the attitude from my daughter.

    I do know that next year I am not homeschooling anyone else's kids. The past two years I've homeschooled two different girls - both of them extremely disrespectful to their parents, and both kind of the "emo" type. I think it may have rubbed off on my daughter. I would really like to find a book we can both read and discuss together that talks about these things - and helps to build character and self confidence.

    I like all the ideas here and this gives me some ideas of my own. Thank you!
     
  13. jeffwatts

    jeffwatts New Member

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    Here are a few (imperfect but usually effective) strategies we use to get in front of issues like these:

    1. Focus some school time on "why" instead of "what". So, if there's something interesting and mathematical in the news, such as a Rover landing on Mars, we'll talk about an example of how [whatever they've studied in math in the last month] might've been used to make that happen.
    2. Disallow anything that sounds like "Math is hard" or "I can't" from the house. We don't say this under any circumstances. We bring up with our daughter, especially, that "this is the age when a lot of girls - for some reason - decide that they cannot do math and they go a different route. But you *can* do math, and math is easy. It's just something we need to work on together to figure out together.
    3. Give a reminder (for math and for all subjects) is given to all our kids regularly that finding frustrating things that we can't "get" right away is not just a part of school...it is the *purpose* of school. If you knew all of this already, we wouldn't need to do school. When we come across something you already know, we just breeze through it because it doesn't make any sense for us to spend time on things you already know. Instead, we are *looking* for those things you don't know so that we can spend time on them and learn them.
    4. Offer periodic stories of our (parents') own experiences in school...especially if we struggled with the same concept. It's very important to make school a process of learning together and learning to learn. One thing that makes that happen easier for us is to spend some time talking about our own mistakes and confusions on the subject at hand.
    5. Hug often.
     
  14. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    We're almost through the process - with our sixth now 17 and in 11th grade. There's light at the end of the tunnel! With her, she may sometimes be less than pleasant with me, but, when I see the things she posts online, I'm very proud of her. If I put aside the more surface culture-related attitudes, deep down I can see clearly her faith and her well-considered opinions - and I take great delight in that. In many ways, she has a lot of courage - and the occasional oversize sense of independence at home is the flip side of that coin.

    Our most rebellious was our second child, our oldest son. He laughs about it today, being the wonderful young man that he is, but it was very difficult to deal with him at the time. To some extent, I think it was because we have similar personalities. What really helped with him, however, was a relationship he developed with his best friend's dad. When we was too "independent" to come to me, he would go to him and actually listen to him. Honestly, I didn't mind - because we knew the dad and he would let me know the essence of his conversations. So, here's the thought: Does your daughter have a good relationship with another adult? Could they speak independently with her to take the edge off some of her attitudes and ways?

    As for laying down the law, I only did that when it came to fundamentals - honesty being the biggest. Tough though it was, I let some things ride: I didn't want to, but my wife, wise as ever, would calm me down, and then either convince me or glare at me - whichever worked. :)
     
  15. italiancbr

    italiancbr New Member

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    Several years ago I was transitioning into special education from my previous work and managed to qualify for an interim teaching certification. That's the short version of the story. Anyway, I taught five 5th- and 6th-graders that had behavioral and emotional issues for a year and I was told by the program director to learn about Choice Theory. I am thankful for all that I learned during that time because now I'll be able to apply that to my own kids. Here is Choice Theory by William Glasser in a nutshell:

    Choice theory is the idea that human behavior is based on internal motivation. Developed by William Glasser in 1998, choice theory posits that to maintain classroom tranquility and inspire a love for learning, children should be lead to discover that the only behavior they can control is their own. Glasser believes that all behavior is purposeful in order to fulfill five human needs: survival, love and belonging, power, freedom and fun. Utilizing choice theory in the classroom will encourage a love for learning and good behavior by facilitating a child's internal well being.


    I definitely recommend getting some resources to read that might help you deal with your daughter on all levels but here are a few pointers I gathered from the internet that help explain it better than I could and then in bold I've put an example of what I did in the classroom for each one:

    •Ask students what is acceptable behavior in order to clarify the rules of your classroom. Forming a shared set of rules based on student input will help to develop a sense of ownership.
    Discipline, structure, and rules are fundamental to success with children. That to me is the most important thing. This took precedence over academic learning. On the first day we talked about what good behavior looks like and we created posters. We always talked about expectations even if it was to line up to leave the classroom. All these behaviors were always enforced so they knew that the expectations were always there. We also had a weekly routine and there was also a daily schedule that I would post. I gave them choices. If they acted out I would ask: "Would you like to take a 10 minute break and then you can get back to this?" Give them choices but not too many choices. Also I made sure they understood that there is an expectation that they finish the work either now or later so that there would be accountability. If they ever became a danger to themselves or others, I would have them go in a timeout room to cool down. I had to act more like a psychologist. I asked a lot of open-ended questions. I was never judgmental of them and separated the actions from the person. Sometimes kids need to internalize. I would ask, "What is it that you want?" "Is the way that you're acting going to get you what you want?" "What can you do to get what you want?" Also, when they did something well, I would ask, "How does that make you feel?"

    •Ask students to participate, take risks and be honest by answering questions and joining in classroom games. Encouraging students to take risks in a safe environment will help to develop personal freedom.
    We had a morning routine where each child could share their highs and lows from the previous day. I also had them interact by giving them little tasks to work on.

    •Ask the students questions about their experiences as a lead or "hook" to the day's lesson plan. Students will be interested in the material that is being covered if it is novel and relevant to events in their own lives.
    Asking kids how something could be useful in their lives is very important. For example, we would have a cooking day once a month and we would go to the store and they would add up the amount for the food required so they could learn about math and budgeting. They would also help prep and prepare the meals. I also had them start a journal to write about what they had learned for that day and what they were proud of. If they didn't do it the night before, they would stay indoors during recess until they finished.

    •State the lesson material clearly. Students will act out if they are not engaged due to boredom or misunderstanding.
    I made sure that kids were engaged by varying up lessons and activities. Every Thursday and Friday we had an hour class in the afternoon with a behavior coach that prepared physical activities for them to do while working on their teamwork. Of course they could only participate if their work was done for that day and depending on their behavior. Every Tuesday, they had 'Math in the park' where we would go to the park for an hour for their math lesson. If they finished early we would take a walk around the park.


    •Create multi-dimensional lesson plans that include videos, written works, interactive games and visual models. Teaching material in many different ways will help to keep the subject matter dynamic and accessible to students with different types of learning styles.
    We would have an hour a week of computer time on Friday afternoons so that they could utilize educational programs on the computer. If they worked hard then the last 15 minutes there were fun games on the computer they could play. I also used videos in my presentations and lessons.

    •Read outside material on cultural differences. Cultural sensitivity in the classroom can help increase the sense of belonging and understanding among students.
    We learned about other countries during geography lessons and incorporated a traditional dish from a particular country into our cooking segments.

    •Decorate your classroom with student works and fun facts. You can increase a student's sense of ownership and fun by featuring their work in the classroom environment.
    I would post their work on the classroom windows. We prepared holiday events for their parents to watch. We also played a game during lunch where I would give them facts about the states and they had to guess the state by playing hangman on the board.


    Lastly a few of my thoughts. For me I decided to homeschool because I want to spend more time with my kids so they can grow up to share my values; I believe that faith should play a part in education; I don't want my kids to be influenced by the behavior of others before they have the tools to counteract and deal with that behavior so it doesn't negatively affect them; I care about their whole development rather than teaching what others determine to be some set of standards; and I believe my children will have a better return on investment overall. You have to decide why you are homeschooling and whether it's worth it.
    Even though homeschoolers do better on standardized tests, the priority should be on developing the whole person. So maybe academic learning should take a back seat for awhile. At this point, is learning math, for example more important than learning about respect, selfless service, honor, loyalty, integrity, etc.? So I would advise that you talk with your daughter, connect with her by treating her as you would an adult so that you can establish that mutual respect so that she will willingly view you as an authoritative figure to be trusted.
     
  16. ochumgache

    ochumgache Active Member

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    That's a good idea. I like How to be your own Selfish Pig. It's more of a world view's book from a Christian perspective, but it challenges kids to think about the hidden and not so hidden message they are getting from culture. It also encourages them to identify their beliefs and then evaluate whether or not they are acting according to them.
     
  17. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Welcome, Italiancbr! I find your posts very well thought out!!!

    I had taught several years special needs students before homeschooling. I had one student in particular who was mentally competent, but had Cerebral Palsy and confined to a wheelchair. He got in trouble for me on day, a Thursday. When Mom came to pick him up, I explained what had happened. Mom's response was, "Well, I guess you won't be able to pick out a video tonight then." (It was a routine for them each Thursday to get a video for the weekend.) Richie started going off with that. I stopped him, and explained that he had behaved badly, and he knew it. He also know that he deserved the punishment. "You now have two choices. You can be mature, admit you made a bad choice, and accept your punishment, or you can throw a tantrum. But think a minute. Whenever you have thrown a tantrum in the past, did you get your way, or did you get in more trouble? Do you think that having a tantrum now will make things better or worse?" AND HE ACTUALLY STOPPED!!! His mom was impressed with him, as was I!

    But sometimes reasoning with kids CAN make a difference, if you can get them to actually sit down and listen and think things through objectively.
     
  18. Laura291

    Laura291 New Member

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    Thank you all! I ordered How to be your Selfish Pig. I really appreciate the suggestion!
     
  19. cornopean

    cornopean New Member

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    Is 12 years old too old for a whipping? :lol:
     
  20. katyaszew

    katyaszew New Member

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    The years of a "teenage alien" are the hardest to handle. I was one myself due to an imbalance of hormones and many other hormonal issues, but once I was home-schooled and no longer influenced by those around me, I grew out of that stage. Now, at the age of twenty, I'm currently working as a Personal Assistant to an Award-Winning Author and working on a few novels to teach kids how they should always respect their elders and never disobey.

    Today, my family has to suffer with my unbearable younger sister who has also been infected with this "alien invasion". She rebels and talks back, and boy does she have the most miserly glare I've ever witnessed. The problem with teens today (and even back in the good-old-days) is how they think they are adults and are invincible to the world. They go off with their friends and think that they are their own person with absolutely no rules or laws to follow.

    One day I'm sure your daughter will grow out of this "alien stage". You are not doing anything wrong as a parent as it seems like you are a lovely person. Just have patience, take a deep breath and know that one day your daughter will be back to her old self. Stay strong, my friend.
     
  21. Laura291

    Laura291 New Member

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    Thanks for the help, all! I haven't logged in for a while, so I just saw everyone's replies. Things are rough. We have some good days, but mostly it's backtalk and attitude that I don't know how to fix. I am reading the book "Have a new Kid by Friday" by Dr, Leman. Most of the advice is to ignore the bad stuff, and then when they want something, calmly refuse. That's not working yet, but I have hopes. We are going to tour the public school in a couple weeks and I told both my kids I want to strongly consider it. Homeschooling has ruined my good relationship with my kids. As I'm typing this, my daughter is slamming doors. She's mad because she doesn't understand the book she's reading, which is because she skipped chapter 27 through 31 because she fell behind. I told her to go back to Chapter 27 and she's angry because there is no way she can finish the book by Thursday (when it's due) if she has to read all that. I told her she needs to see that she made a mistake by not reading 2 chapters per day since Monday, and she'll have to fix her mistake. But, I honestly think that she thinks it's my fault she's behind and that I won't change the due date. I have changed so many due dates, I told the kids last week I'm not changing them anymore. They have to keep up with their work! So, I'm holding firm, and she's slamming doors.

    I'll update again after I'm done with the book and let you know if anything worked!

    Thanks all! I wonder if I was so difficult?? I need to send my mom flowers. :)
     

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