It seems we've talked about this ions ago, but I need some info again..... I was using Spectrum Math with my 8yo ds. Then I found some gaps left after public school and had to go back to some other worksheets to fill them in. Okay, now that we've spent some pretty concentrated time on a specific concept, I'm finding that he is one of those kids that learns one concept and follows it for a long time (to mastery, actually) before starting a new one. My problem is that all of the math courses I've seen are the kind that "spiral" (I think) and add new stuff all the time so that they are doing multiple concepts at the same time. I'd like to find a course that does addition, then multiplication, then subtraction and division......anybody know of anything like that???? We do mingle in fractions and such on our own to suppliment right now, it's the "major" concepts that I would like to find suitable for his needs.
Brooke, Doesn't Alpha Omega Math Life Pacs do it that way pretty much? THey have the ten books to get through for each grade level, and each book pretty much concentrates on a main subject, though they throw in other things some places also. You might want to see if you can look at some to see if it meets your/his needs...
Thanks, Deena. I'll look into those. I used to avoid boxed sets like that thinking that my kids weren't the "worksheet" kinda kids. But this year they are proving me wrong. They would rather sit and get finished with the worksheets for the basics (math and language) than to open up a textbook. I'll see if anyone I know uses them to take a look at the math books.
Deena's right about the Life Pacs. I was considering it for Rachael, and talked extensively with AO about the difference between Life Pacs and Horizons. AO is wonderful about answering all you questions. They even have an "Instant Messager" type system where you can ask questions on-line and get your answers back in real time.
Hmmmm.....we'll (prayerfully) be selling our home and moving to a IA for hubby's new job so having a set curriculum might be a good thing for next year all the way around. In IL we have no regulations and IA has to have you report every text you use! For an ecclectic gal like myself, that just seems hideous! :cry: I'll do some more research and see if it will be a good fit for us.
Jackie, I am curious as to what they said about the differences between the two? Isn't Horizons more advanced? I am only doing the LifePac Math, no other AO curriculum. My kids still like it better, cuz the Horizon's Math, at least for the 6th grade one that I got my youngest ds last year, has two huge books. It caused a meltdown, cuz it was just too overwhelming for him to think about. The 10 books keep him challenged to finish each book, then he feels a sense of accomplishment before heading into the next one---instead of working and working and STILL having another huge book to get through! My 7-yo dd said she likes the smaller books too. She is half-way through the 3rd grade (level) math books, so if she finishes early, I'll just have her start the next level. I figure that'll advance her at the speed that she stays challenged but motivated. So, I guess we'll stick with them, unless I find some major reason to switch.
Basically, each book had a different math topic with the Life Pacs. So you would do really intensive on fractions, but once the fraction book was done, you were finished with fractions. Or that's how it seemed to me. With Horizons, you are constantly reviewing. My older daughter did grades two and three with Horizons, but then I felt she needed a switch. She went from the third grade Horizons book to Saxon 65. I went to the conference, pretty much decided that I wanted Life Pacs, but a friend had Saxon 54 she was finally done with (4 kids!), and asked if I wanted it. Since it was free, I looked hard at it. We went to the conference, talked with both AO and Saxon, gave DD a placement test for Saxon, and she placed in 54. It's been a good match for her. My middle one is in Horizons 2 right now...she's taking longer to go through it, and I plan on starting my little guy in Horizons K next year.
Brooke.... I wasn't sure if you needed/wanted lots of review, but Singapore math is not taught in a spiral fashion...it teaches concepts with very little review between concepts and levels. I don't know the price difference between it and Alpha Omega. I actually use both types of programs with my son. I like a spiral fashion FOR ME :lol: , plus I like having the extra worksheets when he has a DUHhhh moment :lol: . But most of the time he has it, and is ready to go on to the next concept. So this year I had to break down and buy Singapore so I could challenge him and let him go on to the next concept. They still don't beat Calvert's teacher's manuals as far as explanation and presentation of material, but they allow him to go on and not have to review as much. So far I have only used it couple of months and it has worked out good..I'm stil perusing the first grade math book too and it looks like multiplication is introduced right there in first grade, which my son understood too and had his facts by 2nd grade. NOT ME, I don't know where he gets that from. DS#2 and I are more alike when it comes to math *Uhhh show me that again* :lol: I didn't really want two math programs, but math is not my strongest subject so I needed the manual that shows *step by step* explanation with answer like Calvert's math does. He seems to skip past that and get it. But you know a good one to ask for Alpha Omega is Kathe. :wink: I think she has used AO with all 5 of her kids if I'm not mistaken.. I'm not sure about Math, maybe just language arts, but she has AO for a long time best i can remember.. Hope that helps... Blessings Tina
I used Horizons Math for my dd last year for first grade. Even though I think it's very advanced, there are plenty of worksheets for plenty of practice if having trouble in a concept. It is what I would call a spiral but there is a ton of pratice worksheets for review if you need to stay in one place for a while. Hope you find something that works for you! Lori :wink:
Thanks everyone. I hate the "getting to know what your kid likes" phase of homeschooling. Here's a quick run down of 8yo ds.....he's exceptionally advanced in language, history, geography, reading and scientific concepts (mostly at a Jr. High level)....BUUUUUUUUTTTTTTT.....he HATES math and HATES memorization of the facts. He still prefers to count as opposed to add in his head. It doesn't make any sense to me because he can memorize lines for a movie/play in one shot, and he memorizes scripture on a regular basis. He can retain everything he reads the first time and he picks up all sorts of stuff just from hearing conversations....... .......as I typed, I just had a "duh" moment..... ......I think I done figured it out.....he just might be an auditory learner, ya think? Wow, glad I had this outlet to think that one through "out loud" and have it hit me finally. I know that is not the entire problem, though. He just plain hates math and he actually seems to be having some difficulty grasping subtraction. Anyone else have this problem with a "gifted" child? I didn't like math at all but it was my strongest subject and I finished Calculus before I was finished high school. I can teach math till the cows come home, but not if the child doesn't want to learn it. Will this come eventually if I slack off a bit? I have already gone back to a 2nd grade workbook just to get the extra practice for math facts because I see no point in moving ahead if he doesn't have them memorized. He is doing better with it and we are doing "carrying" of numbers while adding now, but subtraction is in all of the workbooks next and he is just dying here. That is why I thought he might do better just to stick with the concept of adding and move on to multiplication rather than to make his mind go in reverse at this point doing subtraction. And it isn't that he can't do it when he needs to (everyday life kinda math), but to sit and do the problems for the "heck of it" gets him to tears when he is counting it on his fingers. Anybody have a better idea of what my real problem is here? I am just beyond ideas of how to get this kid to advance to a level that I know he is capable of. I have a feeling once he has the facts readily available in his mind he will go like wildfire through the rest of it. Help! I'm going crazy!!!!!! --Anybody wanna come along???? :lol:
You know an angle that MIGHT help.... Counting on your fingers goes so SLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOWWWWW!!!!!! And that makes you work LONGER on your math, which allows you less time doing other FUN things. If you MEMORIZE your facts, it will take less time to do. You can get it over with much quicker and then get on with REAL life......... (Just a thought!)
Hee hee....one thing I forgot to mention is that he is extremely strong-willed.....I've gone through that angle (how ssssllllooooowwww it goes and you'd be happier to just have it done) quite often and he just resists it. He'll do it, but he gripes a lot. When he doesn't complain I let him know how much I appreciate his attitude and he absolutely agrees it gets done faster that day. I'm not sure if it is a power struggle, a frustated-I-can't-fly-through-it-the-first-time-I-try thing, a not-cognitively-ready-for-subtraction issue, or the teaching method that is the problem. At times it seems like one or two (or all :wink: ) of them.
Okay Brooke..... Much better picture Yes, I had the *writing problem* with my gifted oldest. I figured out what I needed to do was to go real sloooowww and add a change of pace. Then I had to accept this child as mine, and realize it may not just be *his cup of tea*, but I knew he needed it. It was hard because i know how much he excels in the other areas, he just didn't like writing, EXCEPT for this year.. It has taken me 3 long years... Okay.....so now to Brandon, i think something different now. :lol: IMHO, he needs a math program with a change of pace. Its obvious he doesn't like learning math like the other subjects,i.e. *devour and stay on them until curiosity is satisfied*. This seems to be the most thread with a lot of gifted learners. Thats why mastery programs or one concept learned, mastered go on to the next one works. I don't think a mastery program would be good for him, because he does need the review.. A mastery program will only,imho, make him feel inadequate or have more of a dislike for it, since he is struggling with basic facts. For example, my second son will probably always use spiral approach, unless a *lightning bolt of genius* hits him, which i don't see in my crystal ball happeing :lol: With my oldest I would do writing, but added voice recordings, some drawing to illustrate his writings BEFORE he started writing. You know change up the mix.. ..You know the methold we used with them when they were babies trying peas for the first time : Mix in a little applesauce until they acquired the taste for the peas :lol: t... You know, I think I'm going to do a plug here for Calvert. I'll tell you why: Its spiral, but you don't have to do the practice sheets. The books have color, not black white. Anything helps to keep them interested in it. :wink: It starts off nice and easy to give them confidence. They also have cumulative tests..so it brings back to the front what he learned so he can build on it. But here is the fun part, they have both : problem solving that most of the time has nothing to do with math and Change of Pace. They know just WHEN to throw that in there when my second who is not good at math can't take it any longer. For example my first grader had to read some clues to decide *which pet belonged to which kid*.. Like Christa and Julie don't have a bird: Jill has a pet with claws,etc... Problem solving is usually right up gifted persons allies....kwim? Same way with the change of pace.......plus they have chapter reviews and then the tests... They are consistently sprinkled throughout to keep their attention. The problem I see with mastery programs as far as teaching addition, then repeated addition,i,e multiplication. is after that comes applying multiplication to division. That wouldn't be a problem if subtraction was understood. Since division is finding out how many groups or how many in each group, that brings us back to subtraction. :shock: They need to understand first subtraction is breaking a group down into smaller groups, when they can kind of wrap their minds around that they can then understand division.. Anway, that would bring you right back to where you were with subtraction. So by using a spiral he would stay on subtraction, *regurgitate it all year* by cumulative review and chapter review, EVER so slowly ,kwim? PHEW!!!!, :lol: make any sense? IMHO, whatever you do, you need all *the bells and whistles* you can get with a math program.....kwim? Tina!
Wow, thanks Jackie. I'm glad to have found a been-there-done-that person! Yeah, no matter what I do it is killing him. Money is a huge issue this year or I would have used Singapore math and bought a Critical Thinking book (Building Thinking Skills #2). I had to go with the $ I had so now I'm pulling math stuff out of my-- --....anyway, you know what I mean, I think :lol: . Yesterday we had a game day and ds loves to play Monopoly so that is what I suffered through for a while. Monday we'll probably get out some other games. I still haven't made the bean bag game stuff, which I need to get on the ball with and create some more games. Also, ds hates to write, too. I like the idea of having him record his stories. He has a wonderfully dramatic imagination and I sit and listen (well, not always intently) to hours of action figure plots a day :wink: . That would make his day if I got back to our "unschooling" roots for a while and let him explore with his creativity. I am such a mess with stuff right now! I'm going through that midyear "am I doing everything I need to and have I damaged them in any permanantly debilatating ways????" thing. When do you stop asking yourself that and trust that you are giving them what they need????? AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Okay, glad I got that off my chest......sigh......as I was saying, thanks for your comments, Tina.
Then maybe you do need to get back to unschooling, at least to some degree. You can stay on a schedule for the stuff it's working for, like history, and then take a more unschooled approach for other subjects, such as math. There's a lady around here who is REALLY writing-oriented, and she suggests getting a tape player and recording some of those great stories that the reluctant writer does. Then either you can write it down for him when you have the time (yeah, right!!!), and maybe motivate him into writing them himself. I wish I had a Critical Thinking book to lend you. I have severall, but no math ones. I DO have a logic problem type ones, but Faythe loves it. If those are the type you are looking for, do a web search. I've found several web sites in the past, but don't think I bookmarked any. I'll check. Trouble is, most of them are too involved for Faythe. (And then I found the book real cheap used!) You might try Half-Price Books for a book of "Math Puzzles".
Brooke..... You can do it! Didn't you post before that you are strong in math? :wink: Since dollars are kind of short right now, GEEZE there is so much on line.....You already know what he needs.......and really if he was in school in 2nd grade he would be still learning basic math facts and the BIGGIE is *regrouping*. Thats all. Well of course, besides money, measurement and time. Let him just stay here for a while on these facts and teach him what he needs to learn basic math. Its very hard, imho, for someone who generally catches on quick to realize that he just doesn't when it comes to other things. Thats ok. I found it is best with us nonmath people to break *skills* down into steps instead of teaching the whole skill at one fell swoop,kwim? That is what is done basically in a spiral program. We just might have a *meltdown* :lol: if we just *choke* on all info at one time. We need to gradually put it together. Then after we think we have it, we need to get off it for awhile and then review it again. For example, on regrouping break it down into its basic part. Put two numbers beside each other: like 5 and 4 ONLY... Bundle 4 10's of straws or pipecleaners..Then let him unbundle it and mark out the 4 to 3 and put two blanks above the 5 like this 5 +______= _______ Then have him put 10 in the blank and add 5 +10 to make 15. This is step one....he will understand the concept of regrouping before he has to do subtraction on top of it,kwim? US NONMATHERS (is there such a word :lol: ) just can't take it all at one time...we need time to look at it and feel comfortable before going on. Let him using a numberline and manipulatives.. Calvert suggests in their math curriculum to use ANYTHING besides fingers.....it will kick in..... In Calvert second grade, they continue to show a number line on their worksheets. He may not have just had enough *hands on* learning. . Believe me, he won't like using the manipulatives, because he wants to do it in his head.........nothing wrong with that, but leave the numberline out or manipulatives so that when he becomes frusterated, he can count and it will give a *picture in his head that will stick*. It takes patience for him too. Draw pictures....thats what I do....That is also encouraged in Calvert's math.... ANYTHING to get him using *concrete* pictures .... You know as far as writing, Brooke, GEEZE :shock: I worked for the last 3 years to get him to like it. The tape recorder worked great. But i think the best thing for me was dictation starting off first, and I would write. Then dictation became me writing a list of *brainstorming ideas*. We would go back and cross off words that sounded dull and I have him check correct spelling. THEN, we would do the final draft. Finally, the *cart did come before the horse* in our case. Since he is such a visual person and has the EXACT picture in his mind of the story, he draws the picture FIRST on the left hand side of his composition book. Of course he takes as long as he wants to illustrate it with all the details.. That is like day one of our writing lesson. The next day is the brainstorming list, and the final 3rd or 4th day is the final composition. It is neat, pretty and well written. I was just beating my head agains the wall when I started the writing first, he was like *duhhhh*.... :
