Washingtion State now has a test they will be giving in 4th, 7th and 10th grades. In many cases it will be used to assess retention and passing, and will be a requirement looked at for college entrance. The WASL (Washington Assessment of Student Learning) uses a few mult. choice questions, but more short-answer questions, drawing graphs, compare and contrast, and writing short essays. This friend of mine, who is very interested in the approach to History in the 4-year cycle, and incorporating the other subjects into that as I am doing this year, now has a problem. She is worried that if she does this classical approach, her kids will not do well on this test. Her goal is for them to go to college or at least start their own business if they choose not to go to college. So, she is afraid that if she doesn't basically "teach to the test" that they will be at a disadvantage and not do well on the test, and therefore, not be highly considered for college entrance. Does anyone have any ideas on what she could/should do? It's frustrating, she wants the best for her kids, and would really like to do this, but feels she is compelled to teach what will be on the test so they can do well! :cry: Thanks for any help, ideas, suggestions you can give!
Go to school out of state. ROFL :lol: Sorry :cry: I couldn't resist. :lol: Being in a state that doesn't require standardize testing for homeschoolers I might not have any right to an opinion here but...if not knowing history as tested keeps you out of college I think there is a problem with the test and I bet they resolve it before her kids get to college age. Well...I guess maybe if the kid is going to major in history that might be different but...I'd teach the way I wanted to and then throw in the small things so they know who some of the *famous* people were. You know George Washington was the 1st president. Both Adams & Bush had a father & son presidency. I cringe to think how I would do on some of these standardized test. UGH!!! It just breaks my heart when I know that schools and now it sounds like homeschools are teaching to a test. When I was in high school I remember them spending WEEKS on prepping everyone for the stupid test. No one really cares! Well....the school does because it's all about $$$$$$ Ok...stepping off my soap box sorry. :cry:
Thanks Sheila, guess what? The form of the test being used now doesn't even have history on it!!! This test is not required for homeschoolers, neither is standardized testing here in Washington state. (Although stand. Test. is recommended just for records to show that your children are advancing in their knowledge!) But she is thinking that if it is required for public schools, and her advisor for her home curriculum tells her she should have her kids take it, since it will be a standard for being accepted to college, that she better do "what's best for her children", meaning she doesn't want them to be at a disadvantage and possibly not be accepted because they didn't take this test. :evil: Her kids will be way ahead of the norm if she does what she wants to do, but will be able to pass the test well if she teaches what she thinks she has to. What to do? ANY IDEAS?!
Tell the advisor to go jump! AND I MEAN THAT, TOO!!! Does this advisor work for the public schools, or what? It sounds to me that she is incompetent in her job; she has no idea of how a homeschool is run, or what we do, etc. And as far as college admission goes, there may be SOME that depend heavily on the test, but homeschoolers have proved themselves over and over so much that there are other measures. What about the SAT and ACT tests? I truely believe that she doesn't like homeschooling, believes that we all need to be "accountable" to someone, that it's her job to make sure all these poor misguided homeschool kids need her to make sure it's being done "right" and so they can at learn as much as they can in an inferior program, etc.
Here in PA, there are PSSA tests that are required in 3rd, 5th, and 8th grade. Since Ashley is in 5th grade this year, I automatically assumed that she would have to take the test. McGraw-Hill publishes books for each grade level of PA test prep. I'm sure they do this for other states as well. I purchased the book and was amazed at how difficult some of the things are that are included! Anyway, I WILL NOT teach to the test!!!!! I am so against that! I know for a fact that they do that in the public schools here. I have seen, since bringing Ashley home again, how much is actually lacking in the p.s. education system. It's a shame. I have just discovered that it is not required for homeschoolers to take that specific test. As a matter of fact, I don't know if they're required to take any test at all. I'm choosing to have Ashley tested this year, just for my own peace of mind (being that it's our first year back into homeschooling). I know for a fact though, regardless of her test scores, that she is getting a better education at home. I agree with what Jackie said, Deena, your friend may do well to look for a different advisor. Heidi
Ohio has proficency testing, too, but we're not required to take them. I have no intentions of making my kids take them! I've considered giving Rachael some standardized test, just for my peace of mind, as Heidi said. I know there are areas she'd do very well on, and others she wouldn't be so hot in.
There is a local Christian school here that lets me administer the ITBS test to kids who missed some on the days they gave it at school, and homeschoolers from our church. Since I do that, my kids can take it for free, so we do that each year. Despite me not teaching to the test, my kids do VERY well each year! Anyway, I'm hoping to convince her that it's not needed, but she's so worried that her oldest (age 11), especially, who is definitely headed for the military won't get what he deserves if he doesn't take that test! The military stuff isn't even in Washington state, though maybe he'll do some college in this state. I dunno........ Thanks for the suggestions. I'll certainly try to convince her! This just makes me so frustrated! GRRRRR!
You might suggest that she talks with HSLDA. They've got all kinds of data on admissions, etc., and could probably tell her about how the testing does/does not affect admissions. Just an idea......
WOW, I have lots to say on this too :lol: :lol: Here is where your friend needs to make a decision and STAND PAT on that decision. It seems when we first start out homeschooling, we lose sight of ULTIMATE goals. Even more so when it SEEMS like a *curriculum advisor* knows more. It is a valid concern to feel like our children are behind when we first start. Here the point *A lot of the tests are DUMBED down*. Yes, it took me four years to realize that, like you said not even HISTORY is on the test. :evil: So the tests again are the public school standards. So if one rejects their standards in education, why would one try to measure by that same standard?,kwim? Our goals are in the END that our children will be more educated than the average child. Its just that the ps wants to continue to dictate the standards as to the WHEN something should be learned. Yes, like Jackie said a lot of curriculum advisors feel like our poor ignoble and pitiable kids are so BEHIND. :twisted: Yes they may be BEHIND now in some subjects, but in the long range most will excel in ALL subjects. I know in some states where testing is required, those that follow the classical education and the 4 yr cycle, take like the last month and *teach to test*. Then they don't care where their children fall out as far as score because of the direction they are going in. I understand that she wants them to be use to testing. There is nothing wrong with that. It certainly is required in college and is a general fact of life with job interviews. However, I would test them NOT under the curriculum advisors control or know how. I would let her know that my standards are higher as far as education and that the test is no way can possibly demonstrate my children's level of knowledge. If she wants them to get use to taking test, then do it under a homeschool group or by tests that the homeschool mom can administer. Tests are good in the sense of being a gauge, but THAT IS ALL that it is. Then don't be floored by the test if the score is not where THEY think it should be. In all good time, it will come together. YOur friends concern is normal. But once she realizes that her way of teaching is far superior to any test given at the 4th grade or any level, she will have more confidence in not feeling like they are BEHIND. Your friends needs to understand as nice as she thinks the curriculum advisor is, she in no way understands the needs and goals of homeschoolers. I have friends who advisors are very nice,but still think since we aren't trained professionals we can't possible do good. So basically as long as your friend is not firmly resolved that her way of educating is SUPERIOR the curriculum advisor will continue to fill her mind with doubts. If she *nips it in the bud now* and not follow the ps method of testing the curriculum advisor will see that she is a home educator that takes her business seriously. It is not of the curriculum advisors business if your friends decides to test. I did when I first started, it made me feel good. So I completely understand her concerns. However, if she *doesn't set the tone* for the level of educating she will be doing, the curriculum adivisor will continue to think ps is superior,kwim? :wink: I don't know how many years they have until college, but I know the laws are changing fast in favor of homeschoolers. Not only that, but there are sooooo many choices available for college. One doesn't have to go to college in their own state. The beauty of college on line is fast becoming popular among homeschoolers. Tina
Shall we all applaud Tina as she steps down off her soapbox..... (Very well said like usual, Tina!!!)
Jackie... ROFL.....I told dh watch out this year :lol: as my age goes up, so does my hormone level :lol: :lol: Geeze, I just feel so sorry for new ones(and ones not so new). As if it is not enough to deal with new schedules, the learning styles of each child,abundant curriculum, household duties,running a business, having a marriage and time for personal and spiritual self in there somewhere, we need a curriculum advisor throwing in her 2 cents :lol: Geeze, someone needs to start a business as *homeschool consultants* :lol: Someone that a person can truly confer with to get practical and true advise :wink: A person who gets ALL or most of the facts before advice is given,kwim? We already have businesses springing up everywhere by homeschoolers who have been through the college route on line and have pratical advice.. :wink:
Actually, there are people who do just that. Some of them are former teachers that will help guide you to good curriculum matches for your kids, etc. I really don't have a problem with that, as long as they are homeschool-friendly, and understand that most of us need SUGGESTIONS, not "do it MY way!" orders. And they also do end-of-year evaluations, at which time they can suggest what did/did not work and what to do differently next year.
Deena, OH MY GOSH!!! I about fell over when I read that her kid was only 11 and she is worried about not taking a test now that will keep them from getting into college in 7 years. Sorry but... ROFL Rules and guidelines are changing like crazy and colleges & universities are figuring out that the homeschooled kids have it going a lot better than the ps kids. I get calls every now and then from people who are new to homeschooling. Right now they are usually the..I just pulled my kid out of ps - now what? A gal called me the other day and told me that she took her 4th grader out of a good school and took her to be tested to figure out what level she was on. She tested below grade level on everything. The mom was amazed to see her straight A dd counting on her fingers doing an addition timed test. She told me that most of the projects the kids come home with are sooo...above their level that the ps doesn't start with the basic. You know this is a report and a report contains 1,2,3,..... and to get research information this is what we do and.... you know all the basics. They just say to the kids "go home and do a report with a Power Point presentation on such and such president". Hello? So...then the parents are left trying to help the kid with homework. I don't know about you gals but...I don't remember my folks ever helping me with my homework. It just breaks my heart to know that these kids are the future and they don't know anything. Anyway...see my soapbox from earlier. :lol:
Sheila, It is kind of funny, but she is so serious! :shock: This boy is in "Royal Rangers", a church related group on the idea of Boy Scouts and Awanas, only this one is more, I dunno, sort of military like. They learn a lot of great things for that kind of thing, and he is so into it and working so hard, and so planning to go to military school that the mom is beginning to worry about that stuff now. If he doesn't get all the right stuff in order starting now he won't get his "rightful" place in military school....She wants to make sure she does everything that will give him the advantage when he gets to that point. It's not bad that she's striving for the best for her son, obviously, but it IS not good that she may feel she has to teach to the test so he has that "advantage"! She's been really busy lately and I haven't had a chance to sit down and talk with her, so not sure what she's still thinking. I'm guessing her husband would come into play too. He is very involved with the Royal Rangers (as she is also), and feels pretty much the same way. So I feel the only thing I can do is remind her of why she is homeschooling her kids in the first place....... BTW, this is her 2nd or 3rd year of homeschooling.
Yesterday while my girls were in their homeschool group, I actually sat down and spent the whole two hours talking with another mom, just chatting! What a pleasant change!!! Anyway, she has one who will be in college next year. One thing she mentioned that I think is worth passing on to y'all is to keep track of activities and volunteer stuff. She says that many colleges give those almost as much weight as grades, and even though her son was very active in church and 4-H, she was hard pressed to remember all the stuff and when, etc.
