Deena, that makes sense to me. I believe god does not cause bad things to happen to us...however, he does allow them in hopes that we will find Him through it. There are so many things that can be hard to understand, but I choose to believe that God always knows and wants what is best for us...even when we are going through difficult times. Sometime that is all I have to hold on to. It comes down to a choice to believe or not to believe.
I agree Leslie, and I USUALLY choose to believe! I want to always, but I guess I'm human, cuz I fall short sometimes!
I've been wanting to share something, & maybe this is the place. Hebrews 13:5 says: "Let your conversation be without coveteousness & be content with such things as ye have, for He has said, I will never leave thee nor forsake thee." There are many promises in the Word about always abounding & having what we need. I was wondering about some of my perceived unmet needs the other day & got a new "insight" that has given me great peace & a new level of security in the Lord. Imagine with me that the insight took place as a conversation. Let's even go so far as to say that the Holy Spirit can communicate with us: Me: But what about my needs that don't always get met in my own family? What about financial freedom? What about my body weakening with age? What about lack of affirmation in some circles about homeschooling? Holy Spirit: God promised to meet "all of your needs," yes--but needs for WHAT? Me: Well... all of my needs! Holy Spirit: Let me give you a hint: What is His highest objective for your life on earth??? Me: To be conformed into the image of His Dear Son. Holy Spirit: Exactly! Now, rethink those verses! Me: (Thinking) "My God shall supply all your needs according to His riches in glory..." ALL my needs FOR WHAT?? For health & wealth & love & fame? OK, I'm beginning to see! Far more importantly, those verses mean that He will supply ALL my needs that will conform me into the image of Jesus Christ!!!! I'm getting it! So, when Psalm 121 says, "The LORD will preserve thee from all evil. He will preserve thy soul," it clarifies the higher intent--that no evil will touch my soul! Of course, other verses indicate clearly that God is, indeed, very involved with meeting the needs of our family for food & raiment, like the lilies of the field, too, but our guaranteed need is always to be more and more conformed into His image and we are guaranteed to always have everything we need in order to be in that process, whether we are free or bound, in sickness or in health, rich or poor--whatever state we are in, we will always have whatever we need! Isn't that fabulous, friends? This is so simple that a child could grasp it, & yet so profound that it is helping me learn to live more fully--one of my new year's resolutions that I knew I could not keep without the Lord's help: To live, rather than just to exist! I am living with the assurance that whatever happens will equip me for HIS goals for my life. Maybe this fits in a little bit with Deena's post that dying wasn't the worst that could have happened to those children & with Leslie's asking about "By His stripes we are healed." We will eventually be totally healed. I think that that applies to this life to the extent that the healing would help conform us into His image. Sometimes suffering can have a deeper effect than to be instantly healed, though I certainly do believe in miracles! This insight is helping me observe the paths my older children are on with more equanimity (understanding & peace & trust during times of stress), & I'm no longer quite so desperate about their marriages, because just maybe the Lord sees they will prosper spiritually in what looks like heartbreak to me. There's so much in my heart that God has been comforting me with. I hope this makes a little bit of sense. Does it touch at all on what you were asking, Leslie?
Absolutely! That is exactly how I understand it. I wish I could express myself that way! You know...I know the things that God has revealed to me through studying His word and also through trials and experiences in life. But once in a while, afterspending time with my in-laws (whom I love dealry!) I begin to wonder if I am missing something, you know. I desire to know all I can to further my relationship with the Lord and if I am missing something, I want to know! Thanks for you words and scripture, Prairie Home!
I completely agree. I am just paranoid that sometimes I come across like "my way or the highway." lol. However, I have found discussing things like this challenges me and helps me solidfy my foundation. So, sometimes, when I am making a statement I am actually talking to myself because I am learning or re-learning ways to communicate my beliefs. Also, anytime you get into the Word you get convicted and excited so that can come across like debating. The Word always reminds me of why I am here and what I should be doing. Being a double edged sword, it also reminds how I exhibit times when the Bible may seem second instead of first. So, I am always being convicted, lol. Which then comes across like I am being somewhat harsh...just know, I am talking to me! lol.
Prairie Home, Thanks so much for sharing your insight. As I read it I just teared up and kept thinking, "Amen, Amen and AMEN!" Isn't God wonderful! Sometimes what we think are terrible circumstances are there to build us up not tear us down. The verse you mentioned and the verse about God giving us the desires of our heart sometimes are taken so selfishly. We need to understand those verses in the light of God's love and His Word not our, as you said, "percieved unmet needs." AMEN! Thank you! The Holy Spirit does communicate with us! He intercedes in prayer for us and teaches us the Word. I have a discipleship lesson on the Holy Spirit. Until going through that study I never realized how much I took the Holy Spirit for granted.
Isn't it great, sharing about the Lord?! Each of you are so eloquent! Wow! And you said my words blessed you, too! It must be the Lord. I want to thank you, too, Ava Rose, for your clear delineation of Adam's imputed sin & Christ's iimputed righteousness. I hadn't thought about that for a while & had never heard it explained so clearly. I was born a sinner. I am reborn righteous, even though I can still choose to sin. And, BTW, I have never, ever thought your words were harsh, even when you think they are and apologize for them.
You all are such an encouragement to me. Please don't apoligize. I enjoy hearing about my Saviour. I just sit back and read and enjoy and praise His Holy Name.
I just automatically go into defensive mode whenever I talk about my religious views, I wasn't really offended. I'd like to know though, how would you react if your children came to you with these views? I ask because my parents don't yet know of my conversion and I'm quite afraid to tell them.
I can't answer that. I am sorry. Being that I do not know your parents it would be difficult to give advice. I do suggest that you read up on what you do believe and why you believe it. Maybe this will help when and if you talk with them. My middle daughter has recently called and told us she is agnostic. We were not pleased but were not angry either. She is an adult and responsible for her own walk and she will also be the one to have to answer up to God. Good luck! Patty
Thank you. Funny though, I was just sitting down and thought to myself, "oops I wrote imputed repentence and not righteousness!" lol.
Well, honestly, I would be very concerned. I would be sad that they would not use their lives to glorify the Lord. However, there would be nothing I could do about it. I can't make them believe anything and it certainly wouldn't make me love them any less. I will admit that my first reaction would be to try to talk to them in hopes they would still follow the Lord. I would not get angry though. You see, you brought up valid points and ideas. I can see how one could possibly come to some of the same conclusions you have. So, I guess I would pray that my kid would be brought back to the truth and reassured by God. Yet, as I said, I would not love or respect them any less.
Patty, I admire your serenity! Yes, our children have the same free will we do, & God respects their choices. I just told my MFH (mighty fine husband) about this conversation, & he said: "It would be less painful for me to have a child of mine kick my shins, slap me across the face, & hit me on the top of my head with a baseball bat than to tell me that he or she had rejected the LORD--the Creator of heaven & earth!" My MFH is not a violent man. He would not be angry, but I think his response to the scenario shows that he would be very, very grieved--to the point that he can't imagine much pain being greater than the thought of being eternally separated from his beloved children, because of their choice. I don't know if this is helpful to you, Euphemism, because I don't know your parents, either; but I'd like to encourage you to continue to be loving to them & to keep the bridges of communication open. You've read quite a bit on this thread, & you say it was without taking offense; so I'm guessing you can talk about these things with your parents also. It will help them see "where you're coming from," and maybe they'll be able to give you more satisfactory answers than we have. It might be easier for them (I don't know) if you would not just make an announcement. Could you start out with asking questions about their faith, listening carefully, & then saying something like, "You know, I'm having a hard time believing that any more." Ask questions like you did here, and give them plenty[/U of time to process the discussion. Maybe don't press them too hard the first time you bring it up. Parents need "reaction time" to let their emotions heal & to be able to respond to the place you're at with a level head. If you remember that they love you dearly & want the very best for you, it will help you from becoming too defensive. You'll want them to keep an open mind & really try to understand you; so do the same for them: keep an open mind & listen carefully to what they're saying. I guess most of all, be gentle. Children carry their parents' hearts in their hands.
I think what Patty, Ava Rose and Prairie said sum up my thoughts on the matter also! What kind of relationship do you have with your parents at this time? If it is close, then I'm guessing they will love and accept you, no matter what, though it may greive them deeply, to be honest! But, I think as a parent I'd rather know and deal with it with God's help, than not know and have you try to lead a "double life" or something! If the relationship with your parents is not close, then it may be harder for them and you to deal with. Then I'd do like Prairie says, and break it to them slowly and carefully, the way she stated. I like that approach. Actually I think Prairie's approach is better either way. If you just drop it as a bomb, it will be harder to take for your parents, and will sound as if you just don't care. Just a few more thoughts aside from what they mentioned already.
I agree. Be willing to have open discussion. Ask them questions about the things you have mentioned here. Ease them into the idea that you may not believe the same things they do. And Prairie is right, children hold their parents heart in their hands! So I would encourage you to be as gentle and loving about this with them, but honest. Honesty is really important. I hope you find all the answers you are looking for and that you will at least stay open to the possibility that Christianity, although confusing sometimes, could be a right choice for you.
Isn't that the truth!:angel: My pastor told us not to assume she is agnostic simply by her word. He pointed out a very good point. Toni talks about God far to much for a person who isn't sure if there is a god. I allowed this to sink in for a bit and it makes sense. She calls and asks questions about God, then shares why she doesn't believe. She has been coming over to visit every Thursday for over a month now and said she will be coming over again today. When she comes she brings up God. She met a new friend:roll: , who is very different.:? When handsome heard about her he told Toni she needs to be careful with this girl. From what I understand, this girl claims to be agnostic or an athiest. I do not believe she is sure herself. I think Toni is taking to much of what she says as truth instead of looking for the answers in the Bible. I believe that when you do not believe something or are unsure, then you need to examine what you do not believe. Many scientists and proclaimed athiests have come to know Christ because after their thorough study, the evidence of a creator and Savior were overwhelming. I told Handsome, if she really accepted Christ into her heart, I do not believe she could deny Him; maybe backslide but not deny the existence of the Lord. I think she was living off of our faith rather then her own. She often tells Handsome how much more she likes him now then before he gave his life to Christ. He used to be an alcohol and he was not a very good person. To look at him after all these years, he is a new man. He is kind, gentle, loving, forgiving, and patient. He used to be the most impatient man. Handsome tells Toni, it is only by the grace of God that he could have kicked his addiction and had a desire to change. He found something far better to be addicted to then alocohol and he has seen the blessings come from these changes. I thank the Lord that Ems never seen her dad as an alcohol. She is being raises a lot different then Wendy and Toni. What is so interesting is they love the way we are raising Emma. Toni always tells Handsome she loves to be around us. Because of his drinking, although he stopped drinking when she was 9is, they did not have the best childhood. They seen to much and went through to much that comes along with the addictions. Not to mention, their mom was an addict too. But God's hand is more powerful then anything and he gave Handsome the strength to get through. Anyways, I went way off on that one!! Patty
The only thing I can say about this is....I have a 15 year old daughter that has basically turned her back on me and chose to go live with her dad. There is alot involved in the situation but basically she has turned her back on God. We live our house by "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord" and she chooses not to live like that. She spent 2 years making our lives VERY miserable. Was mean and hateful to her little sister and would scream very disrespectfully to me and her stepfather, until I gave in and for the sake of the rest of the family, let her go live with her dad. Now he is seeing that it wasn't all us. I prayed for many many months about that decision and the only answer I kept getting from God was this.... "Train up a child in the way he should go; and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Proverbs 22:6. God does not say how long it will take for her to open her heart back up to him but he does promise that in his world. We pray for her everday, and we love her everyday. We tell her we love her but also make sure she knows that we have taken a stand for the Lord and will not compromise. I make sure she knows that she is my daughter and that I love her no matter what. THAT will never change. Hate the sin......Love the sinner! Jeannie
Patty, it does sound like your Toni is still in the process of doing a lot of "soul-searching!" And, Jeannie, being able to compare the way people live may be just what your 15-yr.old dd needed. Our 22 yr old son is currently on a detour in his Christian walk also, but we are thankful that the lines of communication are open between us. He knows we love him & that we're praying for him. There are a number of parents & relatives of "beloved prodigals" on this board, & I will be eagerly waiting to hear the good news when each one of them returns to the Lord.
