To baptise or not to baptise, that is the question!

Jen,
I hope you didn't take offense to my post - I didn't mean it that way either. I do soemtimes get carried away myself and may come off the wrong way when my intentions are sincere.

Brenda

 

If I could change one thing about Carl (well, I could think of several, but..... :roll: ) I'd love to be able to have him carry a tune! I love music, but it just ain't him! A good friend did the music at our wedding. I walked down the aisle to "The Wedding Song" ("There is Love"). His wife told me that she was all teared up, because the last time he had sung it was when he sang it to HER at THEIR wedding. Sigh.......

 

It's hard for me to get offended-I have a tough inside. However, if I ever get upset-don't worry-you'll know it :wink: . I sing in a worship band twice a month and in the choir when they need more people. I prefer to contemporary style because it's easier for me to sing. For Easter I sang "Redeemer" by Nicole C Mullen (sp?) and for Christmas I sand "O Holy Night" so I sing a mix of solos and band stuff. When I sing in the band I try to sing harmony (emphasis on TRY-nothing fancy).

 

Wow~ Brooke, Deena, Jackie, and Jen~ I didn't know we had so many singers in the midst! I love to sing!!!!

Anyway, back to the issue at hand.........
Jen~ I'm glad to hear that you have decided to have your son dedicated! I haven't been able to come and read the posts for a few days, so I was thinking of suggesting that you go ahead and do that; now here I read that you've already set it up! You go girl!!!! And what more appropriate day than Father's Day?!
If I were you, I would probably make sure to invite your in-laws to the "festivities". Explain to them that you have decided to take this step. Explain to them what "dedication" represents- both your committment as parents to raise your son to the best of your ability and to teach him about God, and your church family's committment to help you in doing this. Tell them that it would mean alot to you to have them there as well. Maybe you could plan a little luncheon or whatever afterwards in celebration.

 

GOOD IDEA, Heidi! That would help include them, but on YOUR terms.

 

That is a very good idea, but unfortunataly (kind of) my husbands family lives 4 hours away. We will probably call them and tell them about it, but they probably wont make the drive.

I did get a chance to talk to my husband today about it and told him that the final decision rests in his hands since this is his family and also his child (more importantly). From what he has said, he would like to go ahead and do it because it's his familes tradition. I told hiim that as long as they don't make a big hoopla over it and think that he is "saved" by doing this, then I may be a little more ok. I am also going to be asking exactly what they think this will accomplish (is it a "tradition" or do they really think that he needs this in order to enter the pearly gates?). We have a month or so before this event so I'm still doing some digging with the in-laws. If they seriously think that he NEEDS this then I am not sure I can sit back and let it happen.

 

Heidi - count me in on that one too I just haven't been here enough to say that too. Our first Christmas Eve after being saved I got up and sang O Holy Night.

Jen - (please forgive me here, I'm exhuasted and may come out the wrong way with this - I'm sorry), your hubby's family are the ones stinking about the dedication/baptism issue and they won't drive the distance to come and see it? OH MY!

Brenda

 

The dedication probably wont mean anything to them, not like a baptism anyway. We haven't called them yet so we never know, but I hardly think they will. Just to make the record straight, it's more my husbands mom than anyone else. I actually haven't even heard anything from his minister uncle about it (not to my face anyway), but more my MIL.

Here is a small glimpse of why it's important to her. I have 5 nieces. Two of them (from the same family) come from a family that's isn't the least bit church going, which totally breaks her heart. It is very sad because they rather spend their time in bars and away from each other than go to church and live a life more meaningful. My SIL wonders why her marriage isn't very happy, and if you ask me, it's because God is not a big part of their lives. I don't judge anyone for going to a bar or doing things that are not normally considered "Christian", for we all sin and each is just the same, but they do it A LOT and it's excessive. It's a small town so they don't have a lot of entertainment. We will go when we visit, but that's because I like to sing karaoke-nothing else. My MIL takes the two girls to church when she can, but that is all the exposure they get. I am not sure what this all has to do with our family (because we are completely different), but somehow she wants our son baptised in case we were to ever fall from grace, like it'll save him or something. I can understand how it breaks her heart to see her son and DIL fall away from God, but it's almost like she doesn't trust us to be strong. This was also before we found our church so her outlook may be a little different now, but it's still nerve racking because we are completely different from my brother and sister in law.

 

I would have to agree with Jackie that it is the husbands decision wether to baptize or not.

We chose not to baptize our children as infants because, after searching scripture and much prayer, we felt there was not clear directive to do so.

My husband was raised in a denomination that practiced infant baptism and when he left the church and joined a denomination that did not practice infant baptism he was asked to be baptized as a profession of his faith. This was a very difficut decision to make. This would be a HUGE disappointment to his parents, and somewhat embarrassing to him as he had been a believer from a very young age. But he decided he really wanted a chance to show everyone he was a believer and was baptized. For this reason he decided to baptize or not should be the decisions of our children as it was their faith not ours.

I know this is a very difficut decision and I will pray God will give you clear direction and bring agreement between you and your husband.

 

I think it should be a joint desison between man and women and no one else should tell you what to do. Or what church to go too. or what to believe or not believe

 

Dedication went very well. I had to sing the first half of a song by myself after the dedication so I choked a bit because I was so happy. My husband's parents of course did not come down. I know it was last minute and they were out of town camping, but even if we gave them a month to prepare, I know they wouldn't have made it. I don't mean for my in-laws to look so bad, because they are usually very supportive and great people. My husbands dad is wonderful and was extremely supportive while my husband was out of work at the beginning of the year. I could have MUCH worse to deal with that it for sure. It's just when religion is brought of, they have such a Lutheran point of view and mine is very Bible based. My MIL tends to believe everything that comes from her brother (the minister) and I look up everything in Scripture. We are going up north to visit them this weekend if everything goes as planned-do I dare bring it up?!?!? When my husband last talked to his mom and told her about the dedication she was like "does this mean you aren't going to baptise him then? (GASP)". I am usually pretty bold when I have to be, but I would never ever want to start waves with my husbands family, just like he wouldn't want to start anything with my family. I am thinking I should keep my mouth shut unless it's brought up to my face. Knowing her she will bring it up. What do you think?

 

If she brings it up "to your face", I'd refuse to discuss it and refer her to DH. Have you decided yet if you're going to baptize, too, for thier sakes, or just go with the dedication? Perhaps if it came down to a discussion, you both could explain to her the Scriptural basis for adult baptism, and ask her straight out something like, "I understand that you feel a child will go to h--- if isn't baptized. I'm very confused with that concept, because it wasn't how I was taught. However, I do want to follow God's Word. Can you show me from God's Word where infant baptism comes from?" Something of that aspect.....

My MIL is the same way. She is a real blessing in SO MANY ways, but when it comes to religion, she sometimes drives me CRAZY!!!

 

If she does bring it up I am going to ask her point blank what her basis is for wanting him baptised. I am then going to ask her to check her scriptures to look up anything that would state that it is a requirement to get into heaven. I of course wouldn't be that blunt and rude, but you catch my drift. If she shows me anything I will "interpret" it and clarify the meaning if need be. I am really hoping that myself, my MIL, and my husband will be able to have a sensible conversation about this over the weekend. I am just hoping that God will give me the opportunity to discuss this. If she does bring it up to me I probably wont be able to back down and will want to vocalize my oipinion. I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut when it comes to things I feel deelpy about. My MIL and I have never argued about anything and have been able to talk to each other about many things that other in laws may not be able to, but when it comes to this touchy subject it's just that...touchy. The only thing I can do is pray and play it by ear. Everytime I over prepare for something it always goes down hill. And who knows, maybe it wont get brought up at all. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. Plus, we have a 4 hour car ride ahead of us so I will have a lot of time to talk to the hubby about it before hand.

 

Same for me with overpreparing! Whenever *I* "overprepare", it's because I'm usually working under MY power, not God's! I'm rather bad at that, I'm afraid :? . The more important the issue, the more likely I'm relying on MY wondeful knowledge! Sigh......

 

We went to visit the in laws. I didn't bring it up and neither did my MIL. We even went rummaging together and it wasn't brought up, so I kept my mouth shut (a first for me-yeah!). I'm still praying about the issue. The more and more I think about it, it bothers me less, so that's a good thing. We have another month before the big camping trip so we'll see.

 

GOOD GIRL!!!

 

Being raised Lutheran I have to say that no your child will not go to H--- if they are not baptised. Our baptising infants is more of what you are calling a dedication of the parents to raise the child in the church and to teach them the beliefs. Then when they turn 14 they go thru a confirmation class (usually 7 -8 months long) to comfirm their baptism. They are at the accountability age.

I had both of my children baptised because this is they way I have been raised. My in-laws who are not Lutheran understood my feelings and came to the ceramonies. If your husband wants to do the dedication to stay in tradition of his side of the family you need to understand that it is an important part of him.

 

That's what I am keeping in mind, and I have no problem with that at all if it makes him happy. The part I DO have a problem with is my MIL actually thinking it will "save" him. If anyone has any Bible verse to go along with this that would help me clarify this to her, by all means, please let'em fly!

 

At the beginning of this thread I posted the passage in Acts about the eunich who wanted to be baptized. He is told that if he believes then there is nothing preventing him from being baptized. I think that this passage is a perfect illustration since the eunich actually asks when baptism is appropriate. Just my opinion (I left out the humble this time :wink: :lol: )

 

Brooke, I agree with you 100%, but I also feel there is nothing WRONG with infant baptism as long as it is done as a dedication of the parent/child, and the parent clearly understands that this does NOT "guarantee" salvation. But I'm also "too much a Baptist" to where I would want ANOTHER baptism when that child accepted the Lord on their own.