”If education were a product we would be suing”

Discussion in 'Homeschooling in the News' started by JosieB, Jul 18, 2010.

  1. JosieB

    JosieB Active Member

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    From the Article http://townhall.com/columnists/SandyRios/2010/07/16/napoleon_and_the_gay_samoans/page/full
    Wow, it's bad when you can't even teach what the religion believes in a religion class....
     
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  3. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    As I understand it, the issue wasn't what the Catholic church teaches but the fact that the professor was asked whether he agrees with the teaching, and he answered that he does. He was suspended for 'hate speech'.

    So much that is outrageous is taught by university professors, and they get away with it by claiming academic freedom. When it comes to teaching personal morals, however, political correctness holds sway. Honestly, I accept the principle of academic freedom, but it must be applied with an even hand.
     
  4. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    What, may I ask, is the difference between a university professor stating in the classroom that he agrees with Catholic teaching on this subject and a church leader stating from the pulpit that he agrees with it? Will church visitors be able to report the preacher for "hate speech" and have him arrested? It's a very short step to get to that point.
     
  5. gwenny99

    gwenny99 New Member

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    Steve - I am actually very afraid that we will one day get to that point.

    A Catholic adoption service in Mass. had to close its doors because it would not let homosexual couples adopt kids through them, and the gov't said they couldn't operate unless they did.

    I understand inclusivity, and what you do on your own time is all up to you, but when what you want forces me to have to accept it as part of my life (ie, impacting my religion), I have to drawn the line. Don't force my religious mores to have to accept your life choice. And it is MY right to have this thought. Why isn't it hate speech if someone tries to silence me? This is Lincolns corollary of one silencing the masses.
     
  6. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    There's a big difference between tolerance and acceptance. It's reasonable for the authorities to expect us to display tolerance, even when we don't agree with something. It's something else for them to demand acceptance - which is, in effect, conformance. Still, this incident is, for now, isolated, and I suspect we haven't heard the last of the matter.

    By the way, where is the ACLU? In the past, they've been big-time supporters of academic freedom.
     
  7. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Rachael's best friend is Catholic. Her dad was telling us that his friend got in trouble when he was teaching abstinance in a Catholic high school. The friend said that he thought both BC and pre-maritial sex were against the teachings of the church. The people in charge of the school told him, 'Well, the Pope doesn't live in Ohio!"

    I don't want to argue about either of these topics, but why shouldn't a Catholic school hold to Catholic principles?
     
  8. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    I do think there's a positive side to this. (Many) years ago, at university, I remember a discussion with a dear Christian friend from Indonesia. We concluded that the church worldwide is suffering because we have it too easy. We just kind of amble along because Christians are accepted and, at the time at least, respected. In such an environment, it's difficult to separate the "wheat from the chaff". We feel no sense of urgency.

    Be careful what you wish for, right? We're beginning to enter an era where Christians are not accepted but are viewed as 'bigots.' We're no longer respected but viewed as weaklings who need an imaginary friend as an emotional crutch (as Dawkins and others put it). More and more, we're viewed as prudes who just spoil all the fun, old-fashioned spoilsports. Every weakness is exposed and pounced on - from abuse of children in Catholic churches, to the sexual escapades of TV evangelists, to the fraud of other evangelists, and so on.

    For this professor, his beliefs have cost him his job - at least for now. How many of us are willing to do that? We read stories about fellow believers being willing to sacrifice their lives for Christ, but that's the extreme. What about losing a job, or losing money, or being ostracized by 'friends', or being ridiculed as a non-intellectual?

    Are we ready? The ride begins to get more exciting! :)
     
  9. CrystalCA

    CrystalCA New Member

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  10. gwenny99

    gwenny99 New Member

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    Steve, unfortunately the ACLU is not friends with Christian Religious freedom. My hubby believe that Christians, particularly Catholics should reinstate the idea of the Knights Templars -- religious fighters for Christ. Christians felt called by God to "love the sinner, not the sin" and the great level of tolerance has really left them open to abuse by governments, the law, and social groups who feel the church should be forced to accept everyone.
     
  11. BrandyBJ

    BrandyBJ New Member

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    Currently, My uncle has a case against the statye-they are suing (its actually a HUGE case- all over the news) that education is a federally mandated right and the state of CA is not fulfillng its obligation to elementary students.

    Turns out it is a product.
     
  12. cabsmom40

    cabsmom40 Active Member

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    I think it is a product in a way. I mean Americans pay for it and they are not getting what they pay for. In fact, they are getting something entirely different. It is amazing what young adults will defend without any argument or reason. They accept it just because they have been "taught" it.
     
  13. BrandyBJ

    BrandyBJ New Member

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    A friend of mine made an interesting point recently:

    He thinks the same sex marriage debate in our country is a stepping stone to "discrimination" cases against the catholic church...or any other church not allowing or approving or performing same sex marriages. That if it is proven there is an interest for the state (whichis how the supreme court would decide if its legal) then the next step will be that churches are REQUIRED to perform the marriages and if they don't that they are discriminating. Even though those same people would be able to go to the state offices. I thought that was interesting....given that the Presbyterian church recently decided to allow gay pastors and they are the second largest religious group in our country.

    I'm not saying it's right or wrong-but if its a religious school (or adoption agency or whatever business) they should have rights to follow their religious beliefs. I really don't like this new movement (although not that new) towards we all have to agree and it can't be offensive to anyone. I mean the whole point of this country-is you have a choice and you can walk away from what you don't like-not everyone has to agree...we're not puritans-and I wish people would quit imparting their "everything in the gray area" opinions on the world. And the law suits. ech....

    I just can't figure out when this country is gonna start paying attention to what is ACTUALLY important...it all seems like a scam to get us to pay not notice things like, oh the current poverty level?!!!

    And education-NOW that seems important.....

    (stepping down from the back of my wagon and making sheepish face as to the length....so sorry.)
     
  14. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    My guess is that it will play out like this:

    1) We'll see more cases like that of the professor, the authorities scaring people not to raise the issue because of broadly interpreted "hate speech" laws.

    2) There will be some push back, but no outcry.

    3) Someone will sue a church in a related area. Maybe it will be about an organist being fired because he's gay, or not hiring someone for a church position because they are gay.

    4) There will be little push back on this either because it's a local issue.

    5) Then a key moment arrives. An extreme pastor, maybe the person who leads Westboro Baptist Church, will be sued for hate speech. The government will choose him, a clever target, because most people disagree with the despicable actions of WBC. But this will be the wedge.

    6) Then other lawsuits will follow, and this will "split" the church into those who cave and those who do not. Sadly, rather than try not to get distracted, I suspect some churches will focus on this instead of on the gospel.

    7) For this initiative, there will be push back, and it will become a political hot potato. The government will back down and the issue will lie low for a few years.

    8) Public opinion will begin to fall in line, and the real battle will commence by the end of the decade. By then, public opinion will have turned against the church, just like it has in Europe, and the government will have no problem imposing restrictions on churches.
     
  15. Lindina

    Lindina Active Member

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    Gee, thanks for that little ray of sunshine, Steve!:roll:
     
  16. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    You're welcome. I can be a bundle of joy sometimes. :)
     
  17. JosieB

    JosieB Active Member

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    Seems to be more a of push to "you can't be offensive to anyone but the Christians" to me.

    Goes back to what I've been saying for years and people think I am crazy, we have freedom of religion int his country so long as your religion isn't Christian.

    And then you have the gay Christian churches - which will just "prove" you can be Christian and support the GLBT movement... :roll:
     
  18. goodnsimple

    goodnsimple New Member

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    I think the government should get out of the marriage business.
    There should be civil contracts...and they can be between whomever wants it to be. Businesses can decided how many "dependent adults" they wish to cover.
    so two people can enter into a contract to be "a couple" even if it is say two spinster (how do you like that word eh?) sisters, that want to have one work, the other take care of the house, but share SS and retirement and all that.
    ALSO the splitting up of assets can be decided upon at the beginning of the contract.
    THERE.
    then Churches can perform marriages which have little or nothing to do with the government. (you would have to have an approved contract also) These ceremonies could be done in accordance with your religion and culture...because they are not a legal contract the government doesn't care who is "getting" what. The Catholic Church can restrict divorce's and the Baptist don't have to marry gays...and yet it does not affect the ability of those persons to enter into a contract.
    I think heterosexuals have done more damage to "marriage" than the gay community ever will.
    There could even be contracts you enter into that are short term...renewable in 5 years or whatever. Care/custody and financial support of all children spelled out before hand.
    I am talking about removing the idea of sin from the governments perview. (not necessarily removing sin...I don't have that authority. :) )
     
  19. goodnsimple

    goodnsimple New Member

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    I think that if persons are willing to enter into multiple contracts and all affected parties are also in agreement that should be possible too. (poligamy for the future!)
     

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