Are we doing a disservice to our kids by not teaching them spanish?

Discussion in 'Homeschooling' started by StoneFamily, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. ChuckConnors

    ChuckConnors New Member

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    I grew up and live in South Louisiana. We had a strong French speaking heritage that is rapidly dying. When I was in school, French was taught in all grades up to high school. At the high school level you could either chose French or switch to Spanish. I continued with the French and took several semesters of it in college. Unfortunately, I found it to be almost completely useless. The French spoken here is quite different than the Parisian French spoken elsewhere.

    Over the past few years I've begun learning Spanish using the Pimsleur series of audio lessons. I find it much more useful in both my work and social settings. While I won't get into the politics, I will say that it seems to be of increasing use here in the United States. My daughter already knows how to count to 20 in Spanish and knows a few other words as well. I will encourage her to learn it as she gets older.

    Just my two cents.
     
  2. goodnsimple

    goodnsimple New Member

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    Well, this is a pet peeve of mine.
    I think bilingual education should mean...that all the kids who graduate from a bilingual program should speak (at least) two languages...BI- Lingual??!!

    Yes?
    Well, no, not in the US...HERE, bilingual means the TEACHERS...who teach the Spanish speaking kids in Spanish and the English speaking kids in English. ugh. So no one learns to speak anything.

    In Canada they have two tracks...French and English. You choose your track (well, parents choose) in GRADE SCHOOL. Most of the English speakers choose French and vice versa....They are taught in that language except of course for English (or French) which is still taught to BOTH tracks...(having to do with liturature etc.) So at the end of the educational system...your students are bi lingual.

    The US school system can't get anything right...we don't have bilingual education...and it doesn't look like we ever will.

    Ds #1 is going to work on Japanese....Ds#2 will do Spanish....neither will probably have the opportunity to be truly bilingual unless the marry into it.
    or we move.
     
  3. MamaBear

    MamaBear New Member

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    I do agree, bi=lingual means two. My dear sil, may she rest in peace, was a Spanish teacher, teaching English speaking students how to speak Spanish. Our local school district teaches Spanish to English speaking students. The high school I graduated did the same. So I do think that the US school system is getting some of it right. Sounds like your local schools are doing a good job! :love:
     
  4. ColoradoMom

    ColoradoMom New Member

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    Wow - thanks for pointing me out to the error of my ways. :roll: I should have cleared my opinions with you before I posted. Did you by chance, notice the etc. in the sentence above? Or perhaps you are denying the fact that there are an abundance of bi-lingual opportunities in the day labor, government, and food service markets?

    Thanks, by the way, for calling me rude. I love how YOUR posts are allowed to be personally directed at me, all the while calling me names, yet when I express a general opinion based on my experiences (and direct it towards no one) I am the "rude" one.

    I'm sorry - but my post was lucid and well thought out, and just because you don't agree with me does not give you the right to call me names. Although - it is a typical knee-jerk reaction so I am not surprised.

    Oh, and by the way - love how you stuck that "uneducated" remark in there. Since I have never had a conversation with anyone on this board in this manner, nor has anyone ever brought to my attention that I was rude before, I find your remark insincere. How about pointing out all those "rude or stereotypical (therefore uneducated) posts" I am guilty of, then at least I would know what you are talking about.

    I did not call you a name, say you were uneducated, or accuse you of anything. Nor did I disqualify your opinion because I disagree with you. Why? Because I respect everyone's opinions, even if they don't agree with me. I wish you would be able to afford me the same respect, but I see that is not the case.

    I feel people who live in America should speak English. I never said they should not speak their native language, but they SHOULD be able to speak English. I also said that I feel Spanish is not a good way to get ahead for my children as I do not see them attracted to the types of jobs that would require a big Spanish language background.

    I sincerely do not see how anyone could fault me for having those opinions and frankly, if you do - I don't care.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2009
  5. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    I've led many meetings in Latin America with some big-name companies - and I don't speak Spanish. On many occasions, there were 20 or more people in the room, and I was the only one who spoke only English. Most graciously, the local executives would hold two or three hour meetings in English just for my benefit. On occasion, I would invite them to speak in Spanish and allow one of my colleagues to translate, but they wouldn't hear of it. Once, in a meeting with a very well-known person in Venezuela (no - not President Chavez, but a billionaire businessman), his team spoke only in Spanish in a show of respect to him - but he insisted on walking over to me, introduced himself in English, and apologized that much of the meeting was in Spanish.

    From these experiences, I would draw several conclusions:

    1) Most of the rest of the world makes the point to learn English as their second language. It is the language of international business.

    2) Even when only one person in the room does not speak Spanish, a large group of Spanish executives insist on speaking English for that person's benefit. If the situation was reversed, we wouldn't have the language skills to return the favor.

    3) Having a sufficiently good grasp of Spanish is important for top jobs in industry if you plan to sell to Latin America (a large and very close market). Spanish speakers perform many jobs to which, one day, your children may well aspire.

    The same is undoubtedly true of Chinese, because we trade more and more with the Chinese people. While French is spoken in much of Africa, you can get by in English (at least in the countries I've visited on business). So, in the world of international business, the three most important languages are probably English, Spanish, and Chinese.
     
  6. Ava Rose

    Ava Rose New Member

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    Very enlightening, Steve. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us.
     
  7. CelticRose

    CelticRose New Member

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    I am finding this part of the thread fascinating as I am aware Scotland, Wales & Ireland are attempting to halt the decay of their national languages by making them compulsary at school at all year levels. As for most children English is their first, & often their only, language there is some dispute about this ~ especially as all these languages are spoken by small minorities & have some peculiarities that make them quite difficult to learn.

    To refuse to learn the language of the country you are travelling or living in is rude & the French certainly think so. We were among the few English speakers we knew who were not complaining about the French because we made some attempt to communicate with them in their own language ~ & my French was & is pretty apalling! It was still appreciated.

    Many Europeans are multi~lingual & being able to speak a language well other than one's own is ecpected by the time one finishes school. I suspect many English speakers are lazy linguists because everyone else has learnt English to accomodate us ~ which is not to say a child who is not interested should have to learn another language but I do find the general attitude to learning another language interesting.

    Aussies are the worst imo. We have no other country on our borders & very few of us make much effort with any other language than English ~ & sometimes I think that is disputable too. ☺ Need seems to be the determining factor. Many Europeans, living & travelling short distances between countries & languages feel the need to speak more than their own language. This does not appear to be the case amongst the English speaking nations.
     
  8. MamaBear

    MamaBear New Member

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    Great insight, Steve, TY! I have a question, it seems that you have traveled quite a bit, perhaps you may know the answer to my question.

    I was looking on the California DMV web site and this is what I found about the drivers tests and the languages it is available in, see below. They cater to a lot of different ethnicity's with regard to the written driving test. Now my question.................................In your opinion, do other countries help others who do not speak their language like the US does as cited below?

    What other languages is the written or audio test available in?
    Besides English, the basic Class C written driver license exam is also available in the following languages:
    Amharic, Arabic, Armenian, Cambodian, Chinese, Croatian, French, German, Greek, Hebrew, Hindi, Hmong, Hungarian, Indonesian, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Laotian, Persian/Farsi, Polish, Portuguese, Punjabi, Romanian, Russian, Samoan, Spanish, Tagalog/Filipino, Thai, Tongan, Turkish, and Vietnamese.

    Besides English, the basic Class C audio driver license exam is also available in the following languages:
    Armenian, Chinese/Mandarin, Hindi, Hmong, Japanese, Korean, Portuguese, Punjabi, Russian, Spanish, and Vietnamese
     
  9. Ava Rose

    Ava Rose New Member

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    When I was in France, I got the impression that if you spoke their language poorly they would rather just speak to you in english! LOL.
     
  10. StoneFamily

    StoneFamily New Member

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    I went to scotland my senior year in high school it was amazing the difference between Scottish dialect/English Dialect and American dialect. Luckily since I have a thing for scottish movies, oh okay just Ewan Mcgregor....lol. :) and my fav band has a scottish singer. I understood most of it. Where as the other students just gave them a blank stare....lol.
     
  11. ABall

    ABall Super Moderator

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    May I jump in and remind everyone that this is a public forum and though we all have the right to speak our mind, please remember that we are having a flat conversation...... we only read what we are each saying ........ therefore becareful about picking on someone for having a different point of view.

    in other words......... play nice.
     
  12. CelticRose

    CelticRose New Member

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    lol We didn't find that but often in the more remote places their English was as bad as my French so we ruined 2 languages between us! ☺ Calais in summer, with hordes of tourists, seemed to make the French particularly irate if no~one at least made an attempt to speak French. I found if I tried & foundered they would very kindly help me out by reverting to English. If I didn't try they somehow knew very little English! lol They are very proud of their language ~ & rightly so. It is very beautiful & should not be mangled by people like me!

    I learnt to speak French rather than read & write it so my accent was sort of ok & the phrases I knew well sort of gave the impression I knew what I was saying so I often landed in hot water where I had no idea what I had just agreed to! Interesting. However even the little I knew was remarkably helpful as I quickly found I understood a lot more than I could actually verbalise & we got on very well after a few weeks ~ of necessity maybe?
     
  13. ColoradoMom

    ColoradoMom New Member

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    Steve all your points are valid and if I were doing business in a Spanish speaking country then I would prepare myself by learning Spanish. That is only logical, courteous, and good business practice.
     
  14. Shelley

    Shelley New Member

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    I don't think I would use the term 'disservice.' I do think that being able to speak Spanish well can be a plus on a resume, especially in certain areas of the country. I live in Texas, and the reality of it is that being able to speak Spanish is a definite positive in a large number of career fields.

    I don't currently plan to teach my kids Spanish. They are 6 & 7, and we have started Latin. Approximately half the English language is derived from Latin, and I see this language as a vocabulary builder. I'd also like them to learn Greek as that will also be a vocabulary builder.

    Ultimately, if they'd like to learn a different language in high school, then I'm OK with that as well. I took Latin in high school and German in college. The Latin has stuck with me...the German, not so much. LOL I'm not dissing German, by the way. It just didn't really stick much with me beyond college.
     
  15. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    I haven't lived in Britain for almost 25 years now, so it seems like a foreign country to me. As someone once wrote about Britain and America: We're two countries separated by a common language. Still, I do retain close links with family and friends, and I moderate a very large business forum based in Britain. As I understand it, Britain is on a par with the US when it comes to accommodating other languages and cultures. Indeed, sometimes things get way out of hand. For example, one local council banned 'The Three Little Pigs' from all schools and libraries because pigs are offensive to Muslims. (Note: The local Muslim community was up in arms because they had no problem with such a harmless book, but some government bureaucrat decided for them.) In one famous incident, a young girl of about seven was suspended from public school for being a racist. Her offense? The teacher had divided the class into teams, and no one on this little girl's team spoke English - so she complained to the teacher. As you can imagine, incidents like this hit the newspapers and cause uproar - which is no different from here really.

    In reality, though, the intent is to be helpful to other communities who move to Britain. In some areas, there are a lot of people from India and Pakistan, so signs everywhere are in English and Urdu and other languages. In other cities, there are many Poles and Lithuanians, so many signs are now in their languages. In Wales, every official document is in English and Welsh. When I lived there, my driver's license was about 18 inches in length (it's paper and not like US licenses) because everything was printed in both languages. Yes, there's a lot of administrative overhead to abide by these rules, but it does keep the Welsh language alive. Most people in the country agree with helping those in need, and it's heavy-handedness by government (such as the examples I quoted above) that causes most of the problems.

    In the Far East, countries are very deferential to foreigners. The Chinese, in particular, are obsessed with learning English. If you're an English-speaking person walking around in China, you can earn quite a bit of money by stopping on a street corner and letting Chinese students practice their English. They are desperate to learn and to become a more mainstream country. When I visited Vietnam on business, even street vendors spoke quite good English. Bear in mind that English is their third language - after Vietnamese and French. In Europe, citizens in most countries learn English. Indeed, the Dutch and Swiss, in particular, are quite comfortable speaking in several languages, and you can barely detect an accent.

    I've traveled to over 70 different countries on business, and to some places (such as India, Russia, and Brazil) many times. The only countries where I've needed a formal translator are China (although the executives can speak good English, they use translators for the benefit of others in the meeting), Russia (fewer managers speak English there, and some who do understand English won't speak to you anyway unless you speak to them in Russian), and Germany (which took me aback at the time because I assumed they would be comfortable speaking in English).

    I must say a word about India because it's one of my favorite places. Most of the business classes speak English very well because they are taught in school. Hindi is the language of government, but most prefer to speak their local language (Bengali, Kannada, Punjabi, etc.). Not counting the hundreds of local dialects, there are 22 official languages. They are the world's largest democracy, and it's fascinating to be there when elections are about to take place. I've not seen one, but I'm told that ballot papers are a sight to behold and can look like small books. All candidates are listed in all 22 languages - plus, for those who can't read, each party has a logo. This is probably the ultimate in language sensitivity. English and Hindi bind the people together, but regional languages are welcomed and spoken extensively in the regions.
     
  16. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    I should have added a story from Hong Kong. I was attending a meeting with about 20 participants from a local company. All were ethnically Chinese and dressed immaculately in suits. Several of the people present were women. Before the meeting started, there was Chinese being spoken everywhere. When one of the ladies opened her mouth to open the meeting, however, I was completely taken aback. You would have thought she'd been raised speaking "BBC English", as they say. Her English was perfect in every respect - pronunciation, diction, everything - with not even a hint of an accent. Of course, Hong Kong was a British colony, so they all learned English in school. Nonetheless, they were just as perfectly fluent in Chinese. To a foreign businessman like me, it was very impressive and very surprising - although this response probably reflects a built-in bias on my part.
     
  17. Faith3

    Faith3 New Member

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    Coloradomom, I'm really sorry you feel so defensive. I did not direct that comment at you. This is all I said directly to you:

    "Actually, Coloradomom, I am not insulted by you at all. I was just pointing out the falsety of your statement, "Bilingual Spanish is common and I do not believe that it gets you very far in the job market. The positions are mundane and cater to government, food service, day labor etc."

    I did not "read malice" into your posts."

    THEN, although I was talking to you, what I said was general:

    Maybe you do not realize how rude or stereotypical (therefore uneducated) some of the posts on here sound, but I believe everyone else does. I do not say that out of meanness, just hope those with the rude remarks will rethink some of the brash things they have said.

    I did not directly attack you and a lot of the comments on here ARE very rude. Since you are forcing me to direct what I was saying towards you, I will say that I do think the comment was stereotypical as far as the jobs that need bilingual employees. I did notice the etc., but usually when people say that they say it about things that relate in some manner (or are similar). Also, calling those jobs mundane - most would take that as an insult.

    Again, I never said that YOU were undeucated. I said "some of the posts on here" are stereotypical, and I really do think a lot of the comments on here are very stereotypical.. excuse me for feeling that way. If you look up what a stereotype is, you will see the use of the word uneducated/inexperienced in reference to the stereotype... it's not exactly an insult... just means the person is inexperienced in that topic, not as a whole.

    So, I hope it is now clear that I did not "call you a name". I just disagree with you, and you seem quite angry about that. I also felt a little bad for a couple of the people you responded to as it seemed a little harsh.

    Apparently, we are going to have to agree to disagree as I do not feel the need to fight a war over something so unimportant... I'm sure you can at least agree to that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2009
  18. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    And W and Y are vowels in Welsh. For example, we once lived a few miles from a village called Dwygyfylchi. Cwm Rhondda is a very well-known Welsh hymn tune that you've probably sung to before now. Near Philadelphia, there are several Welsh place names, Bala Cynwyd being one of them. You can even find some choirs from that area that sing in Welsh as well as English.

    You know what the Welsh say, right? The language of Heaven is Welsh, so you'd better learn now. :)
     
  19. seekingmyLord

    seekingmyLord Active Member

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    I was out today so I am just catching up and I am thinking after this I will bow out...but here are some thoughts to chew on that I picked out of the frenzy.


    Odd. While Chinese, Malay and Tamil are common in Singapore, I thought English is the official language of business and administration.


    Not the federal government, but as I stated before 30 states of the 50 do have English as their official language.
     
  20. Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve Active Member

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    You're right that these are the four languages of Singapore. It used to be that all children were taught English in school and had to choose a second language from the other three. Several years ago, however, the leaders of Singapore realized the importance of speaking Chinese. These days, as I understand it, all children must learn both English and Chinese in school and can choose one of the others as a third. The country is a wonderful bridge between Eastern and Western cultures.

    This is quite a striking example in light of this discussion. Forcing all children to learn both English and Chinese is rather like the US government believing that, because of the rising importance of trade with Latin America, they are going to force all schoolchildren in this country to speak both English and Spanish.
     

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