Ha Ha! I think I found some more AWANA addicts Sorry. Now back to the regularly scheduled program. Brenda
Oh, I enjoyed my activities with my Sparkle Time group. I let the girls decorate our tree here at the house that Christmas. We took supplies to a lady that gives groceries and personal supplies to shut-ins. I would send birthday cards to the kids, if I remember correctly. The wife, who was director before me, would come into the class at least four times a night. She would stand almost beside me and talk to another adult as I was trying to collect dues and make announcements. She criticized the way I had the kids divided up for verses, right in front of the class. These are very pompous people. When I would send cards to their daughter they would throw them away. The child asked me in class why I never send her a card. I told her to ask her mom and dad what address I should use, as though I used the wrong one. Finally, I told her I indeed sent her cards and she would have to ask her parents where they were. Once I got out of the classes I quit sending her a birthday card, because why waste a stamp?
That's exactly the 'view' I was talking about ... so I'll take a moment to present my thoughts since others have. If you do an INFORMED search for "peace sign" on the internet, you'll find many that describe its usage by anti-war protestors, and how its shape is formed from a letter N and D, inside a "non" circle similar to a "non-smoking" sign. Those letters were to do with NNNNNNNNNuclear DDDDDDDDDDDisarmament. In THAT context it's clear that the movers for peace in the 60's meant NOTHING Satan-related. In other words, if you asked someone back then, or now, "Do you worship Satan and does that sign indicate thusly," you'd get a "NO", after being laughed off the face of the earth. Having said that, we better stop using hearts to decorate things, as well as eggs, bunnies etc at Easter time, because they are proven links to the pagan origins in such holidays. Check out the rituals connected with the Roman Saturnalia ... commonly called "Christmas." All PAGAN in origin. That was not meant to inflame ... have eggs and bunnies all you want ... hearts even. My point is, if you go looking for something bad in everything, you'll surely find it. View it as the user intends, indeed as all peace lovers intend. That's the only reason I brought it up in the first place ... since I was having a hard time believing the publishers of the little book really intended something BAD. I related it to my own use of a peace sign under my name ... and how I don't mean the BAD that some view it to be. Evidently, I just may have started something that I won't finish. I just can't go looking for the bad in everything ... so much of it glares us right in the face. So, our opinions differ ... some think it's bad, I don't. Many think a twisted, distortion of the shape of the peace sign, in it's TRUE 1960's context, makes it BAD and that's fine too. Kathe PS And no ... I'm not offended, nor did I intend to offend anyone else.
I don't see the N and D in your little sign. Nor do I find it offensive. You are correct in the eggs and bunnies. Even the christmas tree roots back to pagan gods. I feel your peace sign is not something bad. My hair dresser is and origanal hippie. (she admits it) We all add a little spice to the pot of life!
Kathe that's exactly why I said I felt that most people using a peace sign mean it as a peace sign and nothing more. Same with rainbows. I do an awful lot of ordering from Rainbow Resources, and I don't worry about whether they support homosexuality! (But when I first went on line searching for this "rainbow" company everyone was looking for, I sure did find more than I bargained for!!!)
I'm with ya, ladies. Like I said before, I stopped wearing a peace sign because it offended my friend. I believe that we ought to not make our brothers and sisters stumble, so bye-bye peace sign. There is a local university that observes "Denim Day" in support of gays and lesbians. I'm sure that nobody has assumed that denim is unrighteous because a certain group declared it to be "theirs". But, as with not wearing a peace sign for my friend's sake, I wouldn't wear denim on "Denim Day" either because of what the greater group sees it as signifying.
Jimmie Lu ... You'd have to read a better explanation than I could give here. I'm not asking anyone to change their minds, but at least please check out the first link and scroll down ... there you can 'see' where it comes from. The "n" and "d" thing is also explained at the third link. Objectively, they all make more sense to me than a 'drooping cross.' http://www.peaceday.org/pcsign.htm http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/24/247.html http://www.abcme.com/peacesigncollection/peacesigncoll.html I'm not hiding a thing as you'll see ... the other more fundamentalist views are mentioned at the third link as well. However, given the times in which the peace sign became popular, it's intended 'message' is quite clear. I have actually read sites where the peace sign was bashed SO badly, that every aspect of it was torn apart. You couldn't even pick a color, because every one of THOSE meant something, too. Now ... I smell Pharisee !!!! Talk about "straining out the gnat!!" Thanks for the support. As for Paganism rooted in many "Christian" customs; sadly there are many, many more. Jackie .... It's funny you mention the 'rainbow' thing, because there is actually a VERY distinctive rainbow pattern that is SUPPOSED to mean gay pride, but not EVERY rainbow does so. Of course I wouldn't sport that particular type of rainbow, because I'm NOT gay, but I wouldn't avoid every other type of rainbow because of it, either. You can actually see the difference I'm speaking of on Ebay. Many 'gay pride' items are sold there, and most always the rainbow stripes are horizontally parallel, with distinctive breaks between colors; as opposed to a more curved or swirling type rainbow with one color flowing into the next. Kathe
Kathe, I was like Jimmy Lu where the ND made no sense whatsoever. I was looking for actual letters, and couldn't see them. So I did click on the one site and discovered it was the position of flags representing those letters. OHHHHHH! THAT makes sense now! Concerning the "tearing it all apart:", I had the oportunity to hear Peter, Paul and Mary in concert MANY years ago. Peter Yarrow did a fantastic routine about "Puff, the Magic Dragon". He told about how when the song was written, they didn't KNOW that they were REALLY writing about marjuana and after reading the all the evidence, they knew that must have been deep in their subconcious, etc. ANd then they started looking at songs written by OTHER people, and seeing all the subliminal meanings behind it. And, after careful examination of the evidence, they are now certain that Francis Scott Key was obviously a junkie, because there's no doubt in their minds that the Star Spangled Banner is about drugs.........
Here's one for ya- The Christmas Jeannie was 1 I happened to find these large TeleTubbies at Ollies. These things are huge! They only had the yellow, green and red one. I asked where was the purple one, because I wanted the whole set. The cashier told me they won't sell the purple one because he represents gays. I just stood there. When I got home I called and talked to the manager. I asked if they had the purple one in the back, that I could buy on the sly. I explained what the cashier said, told them it's not their place to decide what I can or cannot buy. He said it wasn't them, it was the store they got the Tubbies from who would not carry the purple one. To me, that's dense. Aren't the Tubbies supposed to be babies?
Oh, yes, I remember all that stuff! My kids "missed out" not because of any gay issues, but because we don't have Cable and watch very little T.V. We "never did" Barney for the same reasons, or the Wiggles, though my MIL has the Wiggles and puts them on for her other two grandkids that she babysits, so my kids will watch them over there sometimes. Again, it's not anything about them being "wrong", but not watching much T.V. in general.
I have an opinion and its just my opinion. As Christians we must be very careful in what we involve ourselves in. If we are ignorant of a hidden meaning that is excusable. If we know and say I don,t care we are knowingly involving ourselves in uncleanlyness. We have not cable TV because of its influance. The kids watch very little TV and it is useually approved by us first. (sounds strict hunh) Ok so my kiddies were at grammas house and wanted to know why they couldnt watch a particular show even gramma was wondering. There are a lot of hidden sexual messages hidden in todays TV shows that are alot more discriptive than that of Dick Van Dike and I Love Lucy. This is my choice. As Carmen once put it in a song he did "garbage in garbage out" We could say for example that Kathe should not display her sign because under her name is a quote from John Lennon. That is her choice. MAybe she listens to Jon Lennon and maybe she just likes the quote. Her decision. Personally we do not color easter eggs go trick or treating or display a Christmas tree. (relax Ill explaine why) We are not Jehovahs witnesses either. The egg has absolutly nothing to do with the resurection of Christ so why do it. It comes from the pagan god of fertility. People believed that they could color an egg and would be honored by the request of boy/girl babies. Trick or treating is not something we practice for many reasons including safety and its wrong to "trick"people.Now on to my most disputed the christmas tree. I know this is going to spark controversy. I am not condeming those who choose to put up a tree however in God's word (old testament) He warns against fasting a tree with nails and adorning it with silve and gold. Then there is the pagan backgroun that says this queen had a tree cut down at christmas time because her hsband was killed she believed if the tree came back to life her husband would come from the dead and impregnate her so his fortune would not be lost. Legan says the tree came to life and the woman bore a son. Fables. Tell me what a tree has to do with the birth of christ when this woman ordered the worship of trees adorned with silver and gold at christmas. Maybe you think Im a scrooge. We have plenty of fun at christmas and it doesnot include a fat guy in a red suit. Please be easy on me as I know someone is offended with my belief. I have the same argument with my sister in law every Christmas First she needed a tree because she liked the way it smelled. The following year she had a fake tree. She insists that the tree is not an idol. and maybe you feel that way also. my only response is to her and anyone is " If its not an idol don't put it up this year and I'll bet you will have a good holiday anyway" I decorate with my little villages and lights even the christmas card wall we create is a tradition the kids and I enjoy. There are alot of things out there that have alot of meanings behind it. In fact the rainbow's origin was God's promise to us He would not distroy the Earth with water again. Seems to me I might not purchase from a company knowing they give to a cause I am against. But I might have to quit shopping altogether.
Jimmie Lu ... You Go Girl !!! LOL j/k Actually, you could go even further as to the practices behind "Christmas." Nearly everyone knows December 25 isn't even Christ's birthday, yet celebrate it anyway. That's the connection to the Roman Saturnalia ... but that's a whole other kettle of fish. You're right though ... perhaps people DON'T like my John Lennon quotation and perhaps they don't like my peace sign either. However, if you READ it, and know the ensuing lyrical line, then perhaps it may add meaning to why I've chosen it. Curiously, many likely dismissed either or both with disdain, rather than learning or asking why I chose it. I've not made any anti-war sentiments, bashed any political figure, OR criticized people who favor war and/or political strategies. As I stand before the true God, I'm not practicing anything while covering over what the Bible really says about it ... I'm just using a quotation to express a sentiment and wish for peace, which only He will bring. The average person, unfamiliar with the promises in the Bible WOULD say I'm a dreamer ... "You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope some day you will join us, and the world will live as one." John Lennon Kathe
We've discussed the use of the Christmas tree in our home as well, but we don't have a conviction about it. I was always taught that it symbolizes (for Christians today) a tree that remains green and lush and doesn't "die" in the winter. To go further, today we also can see the symbolism of the tree that the cross was made from. Our family has many traditions with a Christmas tree, including a Swedish one where we put a bird's nest inside and a spike to represent the nails in Jesus's body. I absolutely refuse to let pagan tree worshipping shy me away from enjoying the beauty of God's creation. We have trees in our yard, even a palm tree in our house, and I love to tend a garden indoors and out. Does this mean I am in support of worshipping nature? Not a chance. I'd expound, but dh is leaving for work and I need to give him a smooch ....I'll maybe add more later......
I'll quickly add that I will be looking up the passage that Jimmie Lu brought up about not decorating a tree........I am always open to the Word of God and we WILL change (and be convicted!) if we find that there is something that the Lord is wanting us to learn and change. Thanks for the topic...it has me thinking anyway.....
Actually, I have a friend that doesn't celebrate Christmas at all. No, they are not "legalistic", and aren't what others might consider "far out" in other areas (other than they homeschool for religious reasons...I guess that makes them pretty radical, LOL!) And I'll tell you, there are times when I am fighting with my MIL over the number of presents she gives my kids, trying to decide what to buy all my neices and nephews, last minute shopping, etc. when I wish we could just chuck the whole celebration!
Jeremiah 10:2-4, in case you didn't find it. Basically, the use of green plants in pagan celebrations like the winter solstice was a symbol of life amid darkness and cold. They worshiped the trees in the forests, as well as the sun, and celebrated the return of the Sun, or its rebirth, after the Soltice. The connection? Decorating a tree with lights is believed to be a throwback to these primitive tree-worshiping ceremonies, which featured green trees and light. Actually, there are a suprising number of green plants involved with Christmas ... holly and berries, pine, the yule log and mistetoe.
Hmmmm.....well, it seems to me that the scripture is speaking of making idols, in which case we don't worship the tree.....and in the case of this scripture, they were using the wood they cut to make idols and then plated them with silver or gold. I still think that Christmas trees are not worshiped, at least not by families that I know. It is a tradition, not a pagan ritual, to me. Although I completely honor others convictions, and respect the fact that those who believe it to be sin obey their conviction. For them it is sin. It'd take some prayer on my end to have this revealed to me as something I needed to change my belief on.
