Article about Christians students in Public Schools

Nicely put. I really don't want to turn this into an abortion discussion either. That's not the point. However, I think we need to view things through the lens of the bible and not man's world view.

 

I don't want to discuss any particular topic either but do want to make the point that not every situation is black and white. Christians disagree, and we disagree often. Yes, we must have and teach Christian principles, but sometimes in a given situation those principles conflict. Also, some things that the Bible teaches we as a Christian community, quite frankly, ignore.

- Was it wrong for a family in occupied France to lie about hiding a Jewish family?
- When a child is born with both sets of organs, is it wrong to forbid that child to later change the gender imposed on them?
- When someone leaves an abusive relationship and remarries, is it wrong for going against the Bible's teaching against divorce?
- When someone murders another, is it wrong to impose the death penalty?
- Since it causes unwanted embryos to be frozen or destroyed, is in vitro fertilization wrong?
- When a dictator comes to power and kills entire communities, is it wrong to plot their overthrow?
- When the government spends billions on causes with which we fundamentally disagree, do we have the right to cheat on paying taxes?
- When a political candidate says all the right words but cheats on his wife, is it wrong to vote for him?
- When thousands are killed each year because of the ease with which we can buy guns, is it wrong for the government to ban them?
- When a state grants students scholarships funded by gambling (e.g., a state lottery), is it wrong to accept such a scholarship?
- When a sports team is funded by companies selling tobacco and alcoholic drinks, is it wrong to attend their games?
- When thousands die every day because of lack of food or basic medicine, is it wrong for us to spend thousands on a vacation?
- If it's right for Chick-Fil-A to stay closed on Sunday, is it wrong for us to buy fast food elsewhere?
- When my wife was in labor, was it wrong for me to break the speed limit to get her to the hospital in time?
- Was it wrong for Eric Liddell to run a race on Sunday in Scotland but not in the Olympics?

The list goes on and on. These are all real situations that Christians, at some point or other, have faced. Some Christians choose to do one thing; others choose to do something different.

It's situations and decisions like these that our children will one day face when we're not there to guide them. We can't provide an exhaustive rule book, and not every situation is black and white. Instead, we can but ingrain in them principles and trust that they, like us, use their intelligence and conscience to apply these principles wisely.

All of that was to say that, for some, we choose to keep our children out of PS. Others of us choose to keep our children in PS. Still others do both! There is no absolutely right or wrong answer. It depends on the situation and the child.

 

I read the article and came away with a different view of it than I see from other posts. It might be just me and the icky weather outside. :wink:
In centuries past there was a a subject taught called rhetoric. Rhetoric was used by the founding fathers during the early days of this country. We would probably know it by it's more modern name: debate. One has to know or have learned logic, critical thinking and how to study in order debate well.
For the most part, ps has stopped teaching logic, critical thinking and how to learn. I haven't quite decided if this is because ps hasn't been able to gear this toward individual intellect or if it's not something that's easily tested on a proficiency test. Unfortunately, several generations have past since rhetoric/debate was taught so most (not all) parents today don't have a clue on how to teach those things. So that leaves us with the church (for those who are participate in a church). Sadly, IMHO, the church hasn't stepped up to the plate on this one either.
In Proverbs, Solomon says "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." You can't sharpen iron without friction and one man can't sharpen another without a little debate.
Jesus used the perfect form of rhetoric/debate to go head to head with the Pharisees. Even if the Pharisees didn't get it, there were those listening who did.
IMHO, it's the job of the parents and the church (for those who believe) to teach this, not the job of the ps. So if children are turning away, it's because the parents and the church can't defend their faith and often times won't discuss it. Pointing fingers and calling names at those believers who have a different take on something doesn't help our kids come to a personal faith. If they see we are unwilling/unable to defend our faith through discussion or unwilling to accept that the other person is "working out there own salvation", they aren't going to accept our faith is real.
In the end, the knee jerk reaction of pulling the kids out of ps and "blacklisting" those believers who don't, is only going to hurt our testimony in Christ. The decision to stay in ps or go should be made by the parents after careful consideration.
Marty
Now accepting tomatoes!

 

Marty....no tomatoes...that was an excellent post! I agree it is the parents job to teach the children. I also believe logic and critical thinking are not taught in schools. I try to focus on that in my own homeschool.

Now, I don't know if anyone here or the article was really pointing fingers at believers who send their kids to school. However, I see your point and I agree with it. I know many kids in ps from my church that have brought kids to church and were of part of bringing that to a saving knowledge of Christ. I know many ways my church has been a part of discipling those in PS. I also know those who have suffered from it...but there could be a variety of reasons why.

My issue is that the PS is a state institution set up to bring glory to itself. In the mean time the kids are suffering and being indoctrinated with secular humanism. It is becoming harder and harder despite parental involvement and preparation to have a young child be a light in that dark world. That does not mean it is impossible. I also have other issues with PS but that's just one.

I loved your post, Marty, and think you touched on key issues. We are not preparing our children to be leaders and think critically. The schools are teaching drones...but I suspect it is their intention. (dark conspiracy theorist part of me...lol)

 

Yes, very well said, Marty! Apologetics, too. Not just WHAT to believe, but WHY, and how to defend your faith.

 

Steve, I've said this before and I'll say it again:
I don't think any Christian has the right to ignore any of what scripture teaches. It is black and white.

Let me take an example-

No, because the Bible says that we are to protect life.

As to your example about the pregnant 9yo, well frankly, I've known too many women who've been told with absolute certainty that they'd die if they carried a baby to term... yet they are alive and well with that child today. When it comes to pregnancy, doctors are, by and large, idiots who are more concerned with their own image than their patients. When I was in labor with my second son, I had to be on my hands and knees for the entire labor. Why? Because the doctor said when I walked around or laid down the baby's heart stopped beating. He said if I moved off my hands and knees at all the baby would died. The truth was, the external monitor just couldn't pick up his heartbeat unless I was suspending my belly like that. So I labored on my hands and knees for 18 hours because the doctor was too lazy to attach an internal monitor. OBs are mostly jerks; Which is why I give birth at home now.

Besides, I think you said she was pregnant with twins (though I could be remembering your post wrong). At which point why is it right to trade two lives for one? The bigger picture, though, is that innocent children were murdered when God might have saved them all.

That argument aside, the RCC is also not on my favorites list (I say this as a former member), to excommunicate (kick out) a hurting child is about the least Christ-like thing I've ever heard of.

 

I also want to add that, like Amie, I have known so many women who have been told they would die or have a baby die or have a condition, each were told to abort...none did and all are okay. Now, that is NOT to say that will happen in every case. It is to say that God is in control not a doctor...and we follow him with confidence no matter the consequences. Remember the story of the furnace...Shadrack, Meshack, and Abednigo? They were asked if God would save them. They replied that God has the power to but whether he did or not they still served a mighty God. oKay...I totally misquoted...so sorry. lol But the overall message is the same...God is sovereign.

 

amen!

 

I don't think Steve was trying to start a discussion of the rights or wrongs of abortion or any other topic. I think he was trying to open up discussion on how the body of Christ should respond in these tough circumstances. At least that's what I take from this. Sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth,Steve.
The article gave me the impression that having your child in ps school was not open to debate. If you're a "good" Christian you will be making plans to remove your child from that "awful" ps situation. In my mind, that is similar to the knee jerk reaction the RCC took toward the mother and 9 yr old child, "How dare you take the advice of a doctor and try to save the life of your living 9yr old daughter at the expense of the life of your unborn grandchildren."
Even though we may believe abortion is wrong or attending ps isn't the best, don't you think we should have an open discussion on how the body of Christ can best respond to others? Our children will see how we respond to tough situations and will judge our faith accordingly. And if they judge our faith to be fake, they will turn away from it.
Marty

 

I agree with you, Marty, but I guess I didn't get that tone in the article. It seemed to me that it was the beginning of an open discussion on what the Body of Christ should be considering.

 

Amie, I got it from the opening paragraph.

Many evangelicals were shocked last June when Dr. Albert Mohler, the Southern Baptist Convention's leading theologian, wrote that it is now time for responsible Southern Baptists to develop an exit strategy from the public schools. But why should it have been shocking?

It came across to me that you're irresponsible if you don't develop an exit strategy and there's something wrong with you if you're shocked that this Dr. says you should have an exit strategy.
It's just the way it struck me, but then I'm not the most "normal" nut one the tree! :wink:
Marty

 

Yeah, just different interpretation, I guess. I see how you could have felt like that. I read it as, this was obviously shocking, ok... but should it have been shocking? Again, like a discussion. I'm not a normal sort of nut, either. I'm like the weirdo nuts in the small bowl at the old lady's house... no one really knows what they are and no one can decide if they like them or not.

 

I took it the way Marty did. And personally, I'm not comfortable with that totally. The people across the street has a little girl in public Kindergarten. She interviewed me about hs'ing for one of her college classes. They're a lovely Christian family. Toward the end of the interview, she said, "So you believe that hs'ing is BEST...." No, I NEVER said that. I believe it is BEST for MY family. I explained that I had no idea what was best for HER family. If she and her husband prayed and felt God told them to send their children to PS, it would be rather arrogant of me to tell them to do otherwise. I also believe that prayer can cover a great deal when it comes to ps. It's sending those children in unprepared, uncovered with prayer, and blindly believing the ps myths that get the children into trouble.

 

That's what I was trying to say in my first response. I am inclined to believe this article. I'm inclined to believe it 100%. But I do know that there are families who say God told them to send their children to public school. I don't know if He did or not, but it's not my place to question that.

 

Amen, Jackie and Amie! I agree!

 

Amen. I always like your posts. Thank you for not being a wishy-washy Christian.

 

This is a subject that has been near to my heart lately. My 24 yr. old niece, who was raised in a wonderful Christian home, attended public schools through 12th grade, and then graduated from a liberal arts Christian college has recently moved in with her atheist boyfriend who is very condescending to all of Christianity. She seems to be abandoning her former faith. This seems to be more the norm than an exception among the young adults I know who have gone through the PS system. This trend should certainly be getting more attention from Christian parents. I'm not saying they all need to homeschool, but certainly some intervention is necessary.

Steve,
I don't know what Christian circles you hang in, but those sorts of topics are freely discussed by Christians I know. The difference may be, that we look first to see what scripture has to say on the topic.

In regard to the 9 yr. old girl. It is really not ethical for a physician to state at the beginning of the pregnancy that the girl would likely die if she carried the baby. Why not carry the child as long as possible, and then if complications arise, attempt to deliver the baby by C-section? Why not try to save both lives? Now, some would say that carrying a baby conceived by incest would further burden the young girl. Perhaps. I suspect that killing that baby would even further burden the girl.

 

Marty, it's interesting that you should post about rhetoric and being prepared to speak and debate. My church is starting an adult class this week for that very reason and the class is called "Prepared to give an answer". The pastor who started our church has a PhD in rhetoric and communication, so there are some people within the church who agree with you.

 

Sorry for the delay in responding - have been traveling rather a lot.

Yes, you captured the point. I know others disagree, but things aren't always black and white - and I provided a few examples. If every answer was obvious, all Christians would arrive at that same answer. We don't, and that's not because we're not diligent in studying the Bible. It's because a problem depends on many things, and there are often conflicting principles at work. For someone to suggest that every parent with a child at PS should have an exit strategy is downright silly. It depends on the parent, the child, the school, the situation, and many other things.

 

Wow, and to read this right when I'm on the verge of sending my Child back to school.. I DO NOT want him to go back and I Do NOT think that God wants him there either. This article stated EXACTLY what I thought and why I was struggling with the decision that my husband made. I'm praying that God will change his heart.