I think it's all pretty much up to the state you live in. There are a lot of grey areas that the states have not addressed in regard to law with home school: Some state college funding areas, credit bridges, homeschool rights-vs-transfer school rights. All states are different, too, which doesn't help. Would be nice is someone would address these issues and come up with a workable system on the books for each state. Unfortunately, a lot of home schoolers still feel like they have to "fly below the radar" as much as possible, and not cause ripples. No one wants to endanger any homeschool rights by over complicating things legally...but the draw back is that with none of grey areas officially addressed, you're sort of at the mercy of the school's judgement if you do need to transfer in. Catch-22. Lindina, did you talk to them in person yet? Any update on what your teen student has decided to do?
This has nothing to do with "flying under the radar". It has to do with PUBLIC schools refusing to assess and place students where they belong. I'm quite alright with a school not accepting outright everything a parent says as far as placement goes. I'm all for the student being tested to see exactly where they belong. That means that if a student is BEHIND, he is placed in classes to reflect that. BUT IT ALSO MEANS THAT IF A STUDENT IS AHEAD, HE SHOULD BE PLACED IN CLASSES TO REFLECT THAT. That's common sense, something government schools are in short supply of.
What I have heard, and so its not a lot of proof, from ds is that his friend who used to home school and went out to school got put back a year and she was told her mother did not do a good enough job home schooling her. We do not know this as a fact but thats the general attitude for the one school she went to. Another student I know who was home schooled has a chance to play sports in public school IF they enroll in the school, he is awesome at his sport and the school really wants him so they made allowances and are "working to bring the student up to their levels" or something of that sort. That said I really think it should be as some one said here , they should test all students who come to the school in odd years ( not as a freshman in other words) and see where they stand. Maybe school should adopt an admission policy that supports all students transferring in from "private or public schools" that fits this?
I think it should simply say ALL incoming transfer students will be tested to determine placement. Not all states are like California, where hs'ers are considered "private" school.
Yes! Much better! I was just thinking that even Private schools here are not accredited for High schools. So not just as Private Home schoolers but Regular or Public even. Cause I am learning that no two schools are exactly alike.
Jackie, I don't think anyone would disagree with you on any of these points. And there are certain areas the school CAN test and evaluate. Math, English...skills based subjects, for instance. But other stuff? Does the kid get credit for Phys. Ed because he did a home school sport club when public school kids don't get Phys. Ed credit for their sports participation? Does the kid get their required computer credit for being self taught? Does the kid get 2 years of language credit because s/he can speak fluent Dutch because it's spoken at home? Which curriculum does the school accept as valid? By which group's "accreditation" standard? How does your school test your kid on mastering a history curriculum that focused on different areas of history than theirs does? Where does this mass variety of placement tests come from? Can they give credit for Biology and Chemistry without complete labs that are seldom available at home? (Particularly since most labs also teach collaboration and peer review?) Then you've got the whole other topic of grades! In highschool, all sorts of funding, grants, scholarships...are offered based on grades and class rank. At homeschool...maybe you're a cooperative kid who does very well and mom says you deserve a 4.0 for three years, and then you transfer into highschool for Senior year and end up being a dead average public school kid and get a 2.0 for the year. Average the GPA and you end up with an overall 3.5 GPA and high class rank that puts you in a great position for funding over other kids. It's potentially unfair to other kids. It gets pretty dicey. In first grade, fifth grade, seventh grade....you can test them and put them approximately where they should be. It's not so easy in high school. On a credit based system, you have to be fair to everyone. Just like with home school....s/he who writes the diploma makes the rules. The same is true of public school. If they're writing the diploma, you've gotta play by their rules. Incidentally, I don't disagree with you...I think it would behoove schools to do their best to work with home schoolers and transfer as much credit as possible. Would be to their advantage to take some credit (fairly or unfairly) for home schooler's success. But ultimately, without some sort of legislation that outlines some rules....credit is entirely at their discretion if they're putting their name on the diploma. And yeah...negotiating this credit legislation would undoubtedly result in requirements/restrictions that home schoolers try to avoid. Hate to play devil's advocate a little.... but I have to point out that if you don't agree with those rules....you have the option to home school, no? You don't want the state to outline how and what to teach your kids.....so how can you dictate what schools must give credit for? You kinda can't have it both ways. Bottom line...you can't pass the buck and shift the blame. It is NOT the public school's fault that people choose to school their children themselves and then change their minds and want to use public school again. All that said...in my perfect world...every school would have to offer a mastery test for every class they offer. Kids who can pass the tests should be able to get credit for the classes. Be it a homeschool transfer, a private school transfer, or just an accelerated kid who works ahead.
This mom and I were friends before she ever decided to enroll her daughter with me. I have tried to keep her informed about her child's education all along. I warned her from the get-go that she needed to be SURE she wanted to go this route because they may not want her to come back in, unless she would go back in 9th grade. I told her of my plan to enroll with the CLE diploma program at 11th grade. Their diploma is accredited by NAPS. I asked her about whether we should try to go with the Approved Home Study for the state, so she could get her TOPS scholarship, and she said she won't need it because she'll get plenty of grants based on need. So I dropped the idea of Approved Home Study in favor of the CLE plan. You only need to do the last two years with either one to get the diploma. Then she popped up in June saying she was going back to public, even if she had to go back in 9th grade, because she "needs to be around other kids, make some friends." The child just turned 17. I asked if the girl was okay with that and was told she'll have to be, because that's how it was going to be. Needless to say, she was not okay with that, and she's refused to do it. The school's excuse was that my school is not accredited. BUT I have known other kids who were in the accredited Abeka program, and they didn't take them either. So accredited has nothing to do with it. I spoke with the mom briefly on the phone day before yesterday. It was clear that she didn't want to talk to me. But she said that they have decided to go with a program recommended by the high school that is accredited by the state and does the Approved Home Study plan. It's a sort of satellite program from a b&m church school in Baton Rouge. They were to talk to the representative of this school yesterday. When I talked to her day before yesterday, she let me know that I wasn't to call back until maybe next week, when we could get together, have tea, and I hope resume our friendship that we had agreed before they enrolled with me would continue "no matter what". From what I can get from a state-wide homeschooling group on FB, the kids get their work once a month and turn in the work they did already. They do all their work at home. The cost depends on how many credits you need to do. And they have a graduation with all the kids who do this program AND the graduates of the b&m school, together. My question for her is, where are all the friends they wanted her to make? She'll be doing her school at home. The other question in my mind is, if you couldn't "make" her do her work for me, how you gonna make her do her work for this program? Every time we had to not have school because of illness or bad weather or whatever, I'd send work home but she'd never do it. Consequently, she's behind where she needs to be for the end of 10th grade for me. Bible not finished, English and Literature not finished, world history not finished, algebra not finished, Spanish not finished, science not finished.... The Approved Home Study plan follows the Core Four plan of the state, which is 4 English, 4 Math, 4 Science, and 4 History, plus PE, 2 foreign language, and 5 or 6 more requirements. The CLE plan is "a little easier" with 2 Bible, 4 English, 3 math, 3 history, and 3 science, plus one PE, 1 foreign language, and 5 or 6 electives. I know I've done everything I could do for this child. She couldn't do long division when she came for 8th grade, and didn't understand fractions at all. I've gotten her to about midway through algebra I with some understanding.
Yes. If my child can pass a Biology test, she should get Biology credit, period. As far as gym goes, they should get that credit on my say-so. And if they are making a big deal about gym, they've got a problem. My kids get music credit for piano lessons. They learn more in a year of piano than I ever learned in a formal music class.
Sounds like they're trying to pass the buck, Lindina. It won't work. If this girl is only midway through Algebra One in tenth grade, there is no way she's going to get through the rest of Algebra One, Geometry, Algebra Two and ANOTHER required math in two years. How is a kid who is weak in math going to accomplish this without personal one on one help? Mom doesn't seem to have a clue. The girl sounds very immature. I know fifth graders who diligently do their make up work when they are out sick, and get it turned in promptly. There is no excuse to just ignore your homework when you're a teen. Given that she's behind in several areas, needs help, and WANTS to be with other kids....starting in 9th grade might not be a bad idea. I think she'd have more chances for success if she could review and have some help available....rather than trying to do this insanely Herculean feat all alone. "accreditation" is tricky. You have to ask what organization or government agency is "accrediting" the curriculum, based on what standard, and who recognizes their particular accreditation. For instance...the Association of Christian Schools might give a certain curriculum "accreditation" for presenting topics consistent with their values....but the State School Board might find it lacking in other areas and choose NOT to give it "accreditation". In the United States, there is no federal government list of recognized accreditation agencies for primary and secondary schools like there is for higher education. Public schools must adhere to criteria set by the state governments, and there is wide variation among the individual states in the requirements applied to non-public schools and public schools. It all comes down to whether your state board/department of education approves your curriculum.....and what powers are given them in your state's constitution. Sometimes, curriculum decisions happen at a regional level. Seriously...it's that crazy...and different...for each state. I think you did what you could for this girl. Hopefully, at some point, her mom realizes that. What university is this girl hoping to go to and what is she hoping to study?
Jackie...they can get credit for all those things. A home school credit. Which, as you point out...is well regarded by colleges. At home school you are the authority. At public school, not so much. That's just the price of admission. Take it or leave it. You have the option.
If you are homeschooling ACCORDING TO THE LAW, your homeschool IS CONSIDERED AS LEGAL AS ANY SCHOOL. When I transfer my student from Public School A to Public School B, they take School A at its word. They don't ask to examine the curriculum to see if it meets up to their standards. If I am homeschooling legally, I expect the same respect, REGARDLESS of the private feelings they might have toward homeschoolers. As I said, I'm quite OK with them testing ALL students coming in to help make placement decisions, especially with high school. And, as I've said, Rachael wasn't given too much hassles about transferring to the on-line public school at the end of her Junior year.
From the NAPS website: Transfers back to State Accredited Schools: If a student chooses to re-enter a state accredited public school from a school accredited by the National Association of Private Schools, the receiving public school may choose to test the student to determine if he/she should be placed in the desired grade level or if certain credits may be transferred; whether the child is in grade school or high school. Although the vast majority of Public Schools are cooperative concerning transferring credits from Private Schools accredited by the National Association of Private Schools, they are not required by law to automatically accept credits from any school.
MAY CHOOSE. That's the problem. If they DID test EVERYONE, I'd be OK. But I'm not comfortable with them doing it arbitrarily, based on their biases. AND, if the student tests ahead, they should be placed ahead.
I get why you're angsty.....but what you're not hearing is that Homeschool is NOT consider AS LEGAL AS ANY SCHOOL. It is considered AS LEGAL AS A PRIVATE SCHOOL. Public schools have no legal obligation to accept credits from private schools. Are you aware of that?
Yes, a homeschool (if you follow the laws of your state) IS JUST AS LEGAL AS ANY OTHER SHOOL. I'm not talking about if it's "as good as" or not. Some are, some are not. Just like there are good and bad public/private schools. Which is why I say they need to test EVERY student indiscriminately.
Who provides the tests? What score = credit? How will grade credit be recorded? What if your child has credits not recognized by public schools? What if your school disagrees with your idea that music and gym are a fair exchange for piano lessons and soccer? Who makes the final call on that? What about the lab portion of that Bio test? Does a home school kid get to be exempt from a practical laboratory portion of a test because they didn't have the facility? How is this fair to other students? My kid wants credit for learning Portuguese. The school has no Portuguese test. Where do these unlimited testing resources come from? Which credits should transfer? Which shouldn't? Is my homeschool version of "civics" similar enough to public school's "legal and economic problem solving" class to deserve credit? Who makes these arbitrary calls and under what authority? If you arbitrarily give my kid credit and it knocks another kid out of his top ten class rank for scholarships, is this fair?
You go to FedEx and pay $9.95 to have some shoes shipped to your sister for her birthday. You like FedEx for two reasons: 1. Because the local FedEx guy delivers right to your porch (the post office carrier leaves them tied to your mailbox) 2. FedEx delivers in 2 days....and the US postal service takes 5-7 days at your location. So, you've paid your money...have the postage sticker on your box for FedEx...and the NEW delivery guy shows up, and he's a real jerk. He runs over your roses and leaves a package in the mud. You run out and wave to him to stop and take your shoe package, but he speeds away. Needless to say....you've had a change of heart! You don't like FedEx anymore. They're expensive, and now that the good guy is gone...inconvenient. The USPS is looking a lot better now. So you wait at the end of your driveway and say to the mail carrier, "I know I paid FedEx to deliver this, but would you deliver it instead? And by the way, could you make sure to do it in 2 days in time for my sister's birthday?" Know what the USPS will tell you? "Lady, we deliver in 5-7 days in this location. You paid to have this privately delivered.....it's not my fault that you changed your mind. If you want me to deliver it, wrap it in brown paper, because that's what our equipment reads, and fill out a hazardous waste form. The postage will cost you less." "But I never had to do ANY of that for FedEx. And they would have it there in time for her birthday." "We're not FedEx. Different circumstances, different volume, different customers, different rules." "Stupid rules!" "Well, they make sense to us, but if you want to get them changed, you got a vote and can contact your state Post Office." "But I already paid! And I paid for two day delivery!" "Well, Lady, good luck with that. Call FedEx back. Maybe they can help ya." "Can't you see the value of the postage on the box? The FedEx store is just a couple blocks down the road, then take a left for a block and it's right there behind the bank. Couldn't you stop and take this in for me? It's paid. The credit is right there." "Look Lady, I got my hands full picking up the mail. If you want FedEx, their guy will be back around tomorrow." "But I don't like him anymore." "If you want me to deliver it, it's gonna take 5-7 days. You need to wrap it in brown paper, put the zip code on there, and fill out your hazardous substance form." "I don't want to rewrap it, that's stupid." "Well, make up your mind. That's all I can tell ya."
ALL OF THIS IS TOTALLY IRRELEVANT!!! It is JUST AS TRUE for private/public schools as it is for homeschooling! If I have taken a Biology class and passed it, I get credit for it. Period. All I am saying is that the homeschool credits should be considered WITH THE SAME RULER as all OTHER school credits. If they accept other school credits without reservation, they should also accept homeschool credits without reservation, because legally homeschooling IS ON PAR with any other school. What is wrong is AUTOMATICALLY putting students entering high school in 9th grade simply because the district doesn't agree with homeschooling. When I transferred Rachael, I gave her credit for Bible (which they accepted), for Driver's Ed (which they did not accept), one credit for each of her sciences (which were accepted) and an additional .5 credit for a Lab for each of those sciences, since she did do labs at co-op with a "qualified" teacher. They didn't accept the Lab credit. They accepted her music and gym credits.
