HELP!!! Celtic "Hand Binding" Ceremony

Discussion in 'Christian Issues' started by Jackie, Apr 14, 2005.

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  1. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    My step-son has just informed me that he and his live-in are getting married next week. But not wedding as we know it. It will be a traditional Celtic Hand Binding Ceremony. My impression is that it will be filled with a lot of pagan practices and beliefs. He told me that we would probably not want to bring the kids, but would appreciate it if his dad and I went. I'm not sure I can go. I need some information about what exactly this is.

    The good news is that he's finally planning on marrying this gal! (Well, sort of! DH says she's a lot like DSS's mother. I can deal with her as part of the family, but would be much happier if they just broke up!)
     
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  3. Brooke

    Brooke New Member

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    If your gut is saying to stay out of it, that's usually a good sign the Spirit is giving you warning. Sometimes, we aren't supposed to even seek out the "why" :wink: .....kinda like when our kids get a "no" from us and want all the details....sometimes, they are better off not knowing all the gory details :? , KWIM?
     
  4. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Actually it was sort of taken out of my hands. When he called, his dad wasn't home. They did talk later, and DH told him that we would NOT be there. Problem is, DH is having a hard time accepting this as a "marriage". I've told him that they will be LEGALLY MARRIED in the eyes of the state (with these ceremonies, some people chose not to fill out the legal side of it) and as such she WILL BE his DIL, regardless of what he feels about it. And we need to treat her as such. I've also asked on another board with where there's many people who are NOT Christians. Wouldn't you know it, THEY are the ones that responded, telling me how "lovely" it is in their experiences. I'm sure it is "lovely", but it's still pagan! (I didn't ask for advice there, just wanted to know more about what it was; I had a good idea of what kind of advice I'd get!) I keep telling DH that at least they will be married, but he's not sure he even wants to hear that right now. We knew the older DSS was "into" pagan stuff; didn't realize the younger one was, too. We've been praying for the boys after we go to bed at night, and last night his prayer was "God, help those boys!" That was it, and summed things up very nicely.
     
  5. CrystalCA

    CrystalCA New Member

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    If you would like to see a real celtic hand binding wedding than rent the movie Braveheart. There are 2 lovely wedding scenes in it. One that is the full ceremony with song and dance and a feast with the whole village involved and one done in secret because the family was againist who she married. In a real ceremony (celtic) there is a father/pastor that blesses this event in the eyes of God and man.
    Please remember though you say it is pagan in your eyes, it is not in the eyes those who are getting married.
    You are putting undo stress and sorrow on these children when they are showing a expression of love and honor to each other and to let their family and friends be a part of that. One day they might not be around and you CHOOSE not to attended the happiest day of their lives.
    I think you need to put aside your differences for one day and let them be happy and joyful without having to view empty seats on the grooms side.
    I guess people would consider my husband and I pagan ( because we do not believe in a higher power) but my husbands family is very Baptist. We planned on not getting married in a church but in a lovely park with family and a few friends. His parents said if we did they would not attended and either would his bothers or sisters. This caused great pain for my husband. It has change the dynamics of everyones relationships. It has never recovered and it has been 10 years since that day. It was a great betrayal to my husband that his family choose religious beliefs over their own child and it has only made our beliefs stronger by showing their willingness to brush him aside instead of showing compassion and love for their child not his beliefs. It was just one day in the day of many to come. I do not believe one day will bring down your house of beliefs. If you think it might then maybe your faith is not that strong to begin with.
    Please go to support your DSS and his new bride . Remember you are there to witness their love for one another and NOT for the "pagan" ceremony. There will be NO naked dancers, no orgies or debauchery or gallons of alchol to be consumed. There will be flowers, food and the love of two people uniting as one. Just the same as any other wedding.
     
  6. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Crystal, thank you for your input. When I say "pagan", I mean that they DO acknowledge a "mother goddess". I think DH could accept them getting married outside the church, even before the Justice of the Peace. He wouldn't like it, but he could accept that. With this, they are openly embracing something that we feel very strongly against.
    We feel that to take part in this ceremony would be endorsing their belief. I strongly desire to treat her as if she were the "DIL of my dreams", so to speak. I will strive to let her know that our door will be open to them as much as possible.
     
  7. Brooke

    Brooke New Member

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    The locale seems irrelevent to me. It's the ritual and acknowledging of any diety other than the one and only true God that's the issue I think. We are reminded in scripture that if we give godspeed to any venture involving sin we will be accountable as if we did it ourselves.

    I'm sure you already know this, Jackie, but you and dh's unwavering conviction in this matter may one day be THE thing that speaks the loudest to dss if he chooses to follow the Lord as well. It's hard not being privy to the future, but we can know that God makes all things work to good for those who love Him. Hope you can get some encouragement here......and I'm sorry that you are being tested in this way....the Lord must know that you are capable of making it through! :)

    And just a side note.....I had a very private wedding w/immediate family in a park 10 years ago....very simple, very cheap, and in jeans no less :wink: . The difference is we made a covenant with God that day, not just signed a piece of paper, although we understood the necessity of that as well.
     
  8. CrystalCA

    CrystalCA New Member

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    Jackie, Thank you for viewing my response objectively. I can understand your position on this issue, I just wanted you to see their side.

    Brooke, the relevance of the local of the wedding is that for HIS family EVERY couple ( and I mean every couple it has been well documented) has been married in a church. The marriage not only needed to be officiated by a man of the cloth but also in the house of the Lord.
    Also from the point of view of the couple getting married, they will see his father and step-mother not as a pillar of conviction for their beliefs but as uncompassionate people because they can not for ONE day show them that their religion is open and loving to others. It will build an even bigger wall that has already been bulit and it will not lead them to your Lord. It will only make their foundation stronger for what they believe in because in their minds they are saying to each other:
    " See, why should we follow their God? His followers are closed minded. To think they could'nt even make OUR wedding because of their righteous ways. Who wants to be like them. I will never be so close minded as to let it hurt the ones I love the most. We will never follow their Lord."
    I have been there and it has done that. If my husbands family could have just given an inch on this ,things would probably be so much different with all of us. I believe if you do show them love, compassion that they will see your religion as a path they might take one day. I do not think that if you do go to the wedding that they will view it as you guys accepting their beliefs but as you loving them so much that you are happy they are uniting together and you would'nt miss that for the world. I know that is how I would have viewed it if my in laws just extended their hands out to us.
     
  9. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    You know, there are many non-Christian people that chose to marry inside a church, simply because it's the "right place" to be married. But that does NOT mean that it's a "Christian" marriage. I doubt they are even really acknowledging God simply by being in a church. How many people are more interested in appearance of the building itself? My SIL sure was!!! She was married in a church they had never attended simply because it was a "pretty" building! On the other hand, you can have a God-honoring ceremony out side of a church building. So the place, to me, isn't the issue. It's more of what the ceremony itself signifies.
     
  10. Brooke

    Brooke New Member

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    I know what I said wouldn't make sense to someone who is not a Christian, but I believe Christians understand exactly what I meant by my comment, not that they all will agree :wink: . When I reach out to others, I am not going to make my beliefs wishy washy to entice them to accept Jesus. Jesus will do the wooing. When a non-believer becomes a believer on Jesus Christ I still maintain they would respect a conviction held by a person who was not in attendance at their wedding.

    Another thing to think about is how much pain Jackie and her husband must be feeling right now. Her dss is not the only party to be considered. It hurts when we can't participate in things because of convictions. Jesus said himself that he didn't come to bring peace, but a sword to divide a mother against a daughter and a father against a son......taking up a cross to follow our Lord isn't easy and I feel very much for Jackie's whole family right now.
     
  11. abcTammy

    abcTammy New Member

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    Jackie,
    I know your heart must be very heavy now. Continue to love your boys. Your love and faith is a blessing upon all your children. That said, we christians cannot participate in things we believe in our hearts are wrong. No matter how much easier it might be. I'm praying for you.

    To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible. ~St. Thomas Aquinas
     
  12. becky

    becky New Member

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    Jackie, can't you and your husband( Carl, right?) have a reception for them, a simple one? Maybe that would at least keep things pleasant with your DIL, and your DSS, really.

    My first MIL was a roach with a lot of issues, but I was young and stupid and should have handled everything differently. I hope your DIL tries hard to get along with her new family.
     
  13. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Becky, I think that's an excellent suggestion!!! I know most (all?) of the famly won't be attending the ceremony, but I still feel strongly that she IS part of the family and needs to be accepted in as his choice. I will ask Carl how he would feel about that.

    Crystal, what do you think of that? Do you think it could have helped bridge things when you were first married, or not?
     
  14. becky

    becky New Member

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    I'd even go as far as making it a potluck where maybe you guys provie meat and drinks and everyone else brings a side or dessert. Let Carl have his chips that day, too!!
     
  15. Lornaabc

    Lornaabc New Member

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    marriage

    I do think the reception would be a nice thing. You have to try to love the person while not loving the sin.
    Crystal, I am interested in what you do believe. I don't want to debate this but just wondered what you think happens after death.
    Jackie you have the right idea. You have a live with the DIL and make it work for your family.
    Blessing to all.
     
  16. CrystalCA

    CrystalCA New Member

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    Jackie, I think is a wonderful idea to hold the reception. It will truly show them how much you do care for THEM and still be able to stand by your beliefs.
    I think it would have helped us alot if my in laws did something like that for us.

    As far as what I believe, I think and feel, once you have died thats it. No helping others or being watched over by those who have passed.
    I was raised Catholic until I was 12, then my step-father and mother decided to be re-baptized as Born-Again Christians ( my mothers family is Mormon.). I went to private schools until 9th grade and in college I noticed that I was never really a believer in any of the religions that surrounded and infused me my whole life ( to that point). I researched other religions to see if something would guide me somewhere but it has'nt so I believe in nothing as far as a higher power goes.
    Eastern religions and nature based religions interest me ( like Wiccan) but nothing as far as I would called organized religion interest me at all. Thats not to say that when my children get older that I would discourage them from religion of any sort ,quite the opposite I would ,help them , guide them to something that brings them peace, be it Christian, Hindu ,Buddist or Wiccian.
     
  17. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    We usually stop by my MIL's house on Sunday, and I did bring up the idea of a family reception for them. My MIL, who REALLY doesn't like this girl, was open to that idea (or at least not against it!) My FIL made it clear that HE would not come. That's fine with me...I can only do what *I* think is right, and not worry about what they others chose to do (or not to do, in this case!). DH, though not excited about it, was willing to listen. He is slowly coming around to the idea that we're "stuck" (his word, not mine!) with this girl whether we want to be or not, so we would be best off to make the best of it. (I'm more of the "Let's make her feel welcome and do the best we can to include her, so we can have long-term peace for the family" philosophy myself!) I suggested DH run it by my DSS and see what he thought about it; he says not until AFTER the ceremony, since he's hoping that it may not go through. So fine, I'll wait. But I do think it was an excellent suggestion! That's why I brought it up here. I knew I could trust y'all to come up with SOMETHING!
     
  18. becky

    becky New Member

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    What is this girl really like?
     
  19. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    (Sigh.....) DH says (from the very first!) that she reminds him of his ex-wife. He says she has a lot of bitterness and anger in her. When she is with us, she DOES TRY to be friendly and social, unlike some other young ladies the boys have brought home. She interacts well with my younger ones, and isn't against helping clear the table. DH also sees that she has lots of physical problems that he feels are mental/spiritual in nature (also like his ex-wife), that holds her back as far as getting a job goes. I believe that she will try to be a good wife, and I will have to learn how to be encouraging without interfering. Oh, and she "makes" my DSS clean up after himself when they're here! I don't "dislike" her, but I don't feel she's "right" for him. Of course, I've never told him that; it wouldn't be well received and would only cause trouble.
     
  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous New Member

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    wedding

    I think prayer is the only answer. God knows the future.
     
  21. HeidiPA

    HeidiPA New Member

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    Jackie~
    I think that your attitude in this whole situation is great! I just wanted to jump in and commend you. I can tell that, although you don't agree with the situation, that you are trying to be accepting of this girl for the sake of your step-son.
    As for the wedding situation, I think you are right in not going. I have an aunt who has made it their family policy to not attend weddings in which the couple has lived together before marriage. I know there are people in our family who have thought this was wrong or weird. However, now that I'm an adult with kids of my own, I can see her reasoning. As much as we love our family members, why should we stand in support of their sin? ("Love the sinner, hate the sin", "Be in the world, but not of the world" mentality)
    I agree with some of what Crystal has pointed out, and Becky's idea for a reception is great- you'd be showing them support, while having it on your terms and by your own beliefs- not supporting theirs.

    Crystal~ I apologize for my fellow Christians who have put a bad taste in your mouth concerning God and Christianity. Sometimes people go overboard with their beliefs and people (like yourself) feel shut out or turned off. Thanks for the reminder that we need to be more open and real. I do believe that we need to stand up for what we believe is right; however, not in such a "hard" way that it makes people look at us and say "I don't want to be like that".
     
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