I don't even have words for this

Discussion in 'Homeschooling in the News' started by Actressdancer, Sep 23, 2007.

  1. Actressdancer

    Actressdancer New Member

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  3. sevenwhiskers

    sevenwhiskers New Member

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    :eek::eek::eek:

    that's absolutely ridiculous. :evil:

    how can they even charge a 6 year old anyway? don't you guys have a minimum age for that in the states like we do here? under 12, i believe it is, they simply can not be charged with a criminal offense...
     
  4. Jo Anna

    Jo Anna Active Member

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    This just outrages me! What is that woman thinking? What did she want he few minutes in the spotlight of the camera or what? There are other ways of doing that. If anything should have been done it should be the parents pressing charges against the school for not providing an adequate environment for their son's condition. I would like to take that teacher behind the shed and show her what shoving and kicking feels like. Sorry, but I really have strong beliefs on stuff like this.
     
  5. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    I think if I were the parent, I would turn it around and charge the school under not providing the appropriate environment for my child to learn. He's special ed, which means they must take his autism/behavior into account. Obviously, they didn't, and placed him with teachers/aides that were poorly trained to handle his behavior. This is a child STILL LEARNING how to control his behavior.
     
  6. homeschoolinmum

    homeschoolinmum New Member

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    Amen Jackie!
     
  7. Actressdancer

    Actressdancer New Member

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    Sadly, this is not the case here. A few years ago a 5yo boy in Texas was charged with sexually assaulting a female classmate. He kissed her, as Kindergarten boys are prone to do (Georgie Pordgie, anyone?). I never did hear the end result, but I know it went to trial. The school district was the one who pressed the charges, not the girl's parents.

    Dr. Dobson talks a lot about that case in his book Bringing Up Boys. I have my copy on loan so I can't even look it up for you. I'm sure someone else here could give more information.
     
  8. kyzg

    kyzg New Member

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    Well, I'm going to take the unpopular stance here and play devil's advocate. Just the things that were said in the article make me suspect there's more to this story than what's contained in the article. I get the feeling that the parents and this teacher may have already been at odds with each other prior to this incident. After all, who would really be so harsh on a 6-year-old? Also, the comments the parents made, even saying "she's no small person" seems like they are getting personal. And notice how the parents said "Most of the time his behavior is whining and screaming" So what about "the rest of the time"? If this child is prone to even occasional violent outbreaks, then there becomes a concern for the safety of the other students as well. Which leads me to the question of just who put him into an integrated class? Should he even be at that school if he had the emotional capacity of a 3-year-old? I wonder if the parents insisted that he was integrated but now are complaining that the teachers aren't prepared to deal with him. Well, duh . . .
    Did you notice how the parents said (referring to the whining and screaming) that they're sure it's nerve-wracking but "they" (the parents) deal with it? O.k., so they deal with it at home. Do they have 20 other children in the household to deal with, like there would be in a classroom?

    It may be harsh to criminally charge a six-year-old for assault, especially when he has autism. However, I am wondering if the parents of this boy are just as culpable as the school in placing him into a situation he was not ready to handle. I'm going only on gut instinct here after reading the article, but I think these parents are trying to hard to play victim without realizing the responsibility that they play in all of this. Sadly, it's the little boy who has to suffer.
     
  9. becky

    becky New Member

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    I believe there's more to it as well. How was this teacher supposed to defend herself, especially if she was being pulled down? This kid must have some strength to him to be able to pull an adult down. I also wonder if these parents did insist he be integrated. With the mind of a 3 yr old, he needed to be in a more appropriate setting. Bless that teacher for even dealing with that kind of stress each day.
     
  10. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Because I have taught Special Ed, I tend to take the teacher's side. Yes, I know there is probably more to this story than what was written (NO!!! The papers ALWAYS give an accurate, unbiased account!!!). But I also know that special needs children are "mainstreamed" simply because the school district doesn't want to pay for the a special class. Instead, they'll hire an aide to sit there and twiddle their thumbs for a lot less money. It seems this child has behavior problems. The school I am sure, is very much aware of it and still weren't willing to do anything about it. The aide knew she was working with a special needs child, probably knew the child could be violent, and should have been aware that there was a chance to get hurt. If she can't understand this child's problem, she has no business being an aide. I still think the district is failing the kid.
     
  11. MonkeyMamma

    MonkeyMamma New Member

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    I know first hand from something that happened to me two weeks ago while teaching a class at church. I usually do not teach this class but I do know all the kids. So anyway there is a lady who works at the church who has 3 autistic kids. I have my own feelings on this but they are VERY harsh and will not post them here. Her oldest was in my class and does not get along with another boy in there. He walks in, sees the other boy and immediately starts acting out. By the end of class he had gotten so ragging mad it was scarey. He picked up a chair over his head as if to throw it. I stopped the situation. My point is that this child has serious anger issues and his parents do NOTHING! They act this way with all 3 kids. Anytime any of them do anything they brush it off and say "Oh well he has autism" because that is easier than dealing with the situation and therefor these boys are not taught any skills to deal with any issues that may arise. We don't know that these parents are not raising this child the same way. Of course we don't know how they are at all. It is just another way to look at it.
     
  12. CelticRose

    CelticRose New Member

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    I actually witnessed a child of about 9/10 (but small for his age) assault a teacher ~to the point he drew blood. Here teachers are not allowed to even touch a child so this man had no real way to defend himself. What I found most deeply disturbing was the school's response ~ a 10 day suspension for the child. It was too much paperwork & bother to lay criminal charges or expel the child. Where is plain common sense in cases like this?
     
  13. Shelley

    Shelley New Member

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    As with others, I too suspect quite a bit more is going on here than this one incident. I tend to wonder if the aide didn't file the charges as a wake up call to the parents and a non-responsive school system.

    The parents struck me as trying to make excuses for his behavior, minimizing it. Teachers aren't allowed to lay a hand on a child--- how could she defend herself? And what kind of parent blames the teacher's aide for getting hurt because she wouldn't?

    If anyone's the most to blame here, it appears to be the district. They should not be mainstreaming a child who has such strong behavioral issues. If he can and will pull a teacher to the ground, then just think of what he could do to one of the other children.

    I will admit some bias here, though, in my opinion. I used to teach professionally and I am in contact right now with a very difficult family that has an autistic younger son. Those two factors do probably color my take on things.
     
  14. Actressdancer

    Actressdancer New Member

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    Our school district mainstreams ALL of the children, regardless of what parents want. If the aid wanted to make the point to the district, they should be taking the district to court.... not the child. I'm not making any excuses for the kid, here, but if my 3yo (which is his mental age) became violent with an adult, I wouldn't expect him to understand the CRIMINAL implications thereof. Heck, I barely expect him to understand the social/moral implications.

    I'm probably overly sensitive on the other side of the aisle. I can only read so many stories of 6-9 year old kids being arrested at school for things like going to the bathroom without permission and sitting on the floor instead of at their desk before I see nothing but adults expecting children to behave like short adults instead of kids. If my 7yo was ever dragged to the police station in handcuffs (as happened to the little girl who went to the bathroom without permission) you'd see me all over the news, too.

    If the aide was unable to deal with this child's behavior, then she has no business being in that school. And in my book, the only one at fault here is the district. No matter if integration was their idea or not, they should never have allowed it.
     
  15. Shelley

    Shelley New Member

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    But this isn't a case of child kissing another one on the cheek or of accidentally wetting the floor. This child is accused of actually pulling down an adult and hitting and kicking her. Even 3 year olds know better than to act like that. My children certainly never tried to pull anything like that with an adult.

    This sounds like a child who is totally out of control. Do I believe criminal charges are in order? No. But I do believe that the parents and district need to wake up and face the fact that no adult--- and certainly no child--- should have to be put in danger because of mainstreaming. I can't imagine any adult could effectively handle a child like this one--- if you can't touch the child, how on earth is ANYONE supposed to handle him?

    Again, I'm not saying I think criminal charges should be pursued, but I don't think this child should get a free pass to act dangerously and be given a free pass for it either. He needs to be out of the mainstream classroom if he can't be controlled.
     
  16. Actressdancer

    Actressdancer New Member

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    Oh, I agree. I wouldn't be upset at all over age appropriate disciplinary action and pulling him out of the classroom. It's the criminal charges that are ticking me off.

    And I'm forced to ask, what end result could possibly come of this? Putting him in a juvenile detention center, as is usually the punishment for assault? Or probation? Like he'd have a clue about the implications of that. Or what about community service? What service can my 3 (or even 5 year old) do without my helping to such a degree that I'm doing most of the work?

    This is American absurdity as it's finest.
     
  17. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Church, 4-H, Scouts, etc. are different, because they are NOT trained professionals. They are, for the most part, volunteer parents working with the kids. I feel that a parent should be aware of thier child's behavior, and needs to accompany the child to help control behavior. But SCHOOLS are different! The school has the responsibility to have trained people to deal with behavior. Period. And they need to have a system of consequences for children based on their MENTAL AGE. Also, I am curious in this child's ability to communicate. I get the idea that he is able to communicate to some extent, because I think the article says he admitted something. But I also know that often, when a child is non-verbal, the inability of the people around to undertand exasperates the situation. Often what adults perceive as a behavior problem in the non-verbal child is actually a breakdown in communication. Again, having a properly trained teacher/aide in the classroom helps when this is the case.
     
  18. sevenwhiskers

    sevenwhiskers New Member

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    so they can lay criminal charges against a child of any age down there? :eek:

    i'm just shaking my head in amazement here...

    it's not that i think kids should just 'get away' with any type of behaviour, but i certainly don't believe that criminal court is the appropriate way of dealing with situations such as this six year old and that 5 year old (and someone else in this thread mentioned a kid who went to the bathroom without permission.. and was taken away in cuffs!??! ) .....

    i definitely agree that something needs to be addressed with this child -- but i can't see how laying criminal charges against him is the answer.

    you guys mention mainstreaming -- that's the norm here... or at least it is in my province, i don't know about the rest of the country on this part... there's no such thing as the "special ed class" like there was when i went to school ... kids with disabilities are placed in regular classes and provided with a TA if required ... they may have 'pullout time' where they work with different people on specific skills, or time out of the class if they need it for other reasons, but there's no 'special ed class' anymore...

    this kid is 6 years old - and they say he has a mental age of half that... what good is laying a criminal charge going to do? does anyone really think that he is going to fully grasp what it means? -- i'm not knocking kids with disabilities ( i have one of those myself).. i'm just being realistic about it...

    at six years old, kids even WITHOUT any disabilities still often have the blur between reality and fantasy - know what i mean? durrr, i don't know how to explain myself here...

    anyway... obviously something needs to happen - but i only hope that it's something positive for the child....if he's prone to violent outbursts, then those need to be better managed, and those who are caring for him need to have the skills to handle it, preferably by heading it off before it happens.....

    it's just sad all round, really. why'd he strike out like that? there's a reason somewhere...whether it was anger, frustration, overwhelmed, overstimulated, whatever... it's there and i think they need to find out the 'why' to work with him.....

    //babble//
     
  19. Sunshine

    Sunshine New Member

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    I also believe there is more to the story, on both sides. The papers only say so much and since we only hear the parents speak out, we didn't hear the teacher's aide and her side of the story.
     
  20. SoonerMama

    SoonerMama New Member

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    I think that the teacher and school probably cannot say anything due to confidentiality.
     
  21. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    With a lawsuit pending, they have probably also been told by the lawyer of the school district to not say anything right now.
     

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