http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/20...meschool-convention-for-unchristian-behavior/ http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/03/22/kicked-out-homeschool-conferences Chances are you all heard about this...what are your thoughts? Do you care? Do you think it will have impact? It's a huge discussion right now on blogs and FB. I am writing an article about for Families.com.
I just read this on a friend's Facebook page. Her thoughts were that he must be doing something right to be attacked in such a way. I read the official response on the AiG site. They make it sound like the claims of questioning others' salvation and such is unfounded as were the claims that Ham was speaking out openly against the convention itself. They claim that openly discussing the falacy of other curriculum during the convention sessions was discussed with a representative over the phone and that AiG was given the thumbs up and was told that the convention would expect AiG to do so. Obviously could be a case of he said/she said. I'm torn as to who was in the right, and I suspect it was actually a certain percentage of fault to both parties. Either way, that convention wants its participants to promote their views without mentioning specifically who oppose them. I can actually respect that stance. I respect Ham's position on the need to expose it, but they decided not to give him the platform on which to make his point. It is possible to promote your view without attacking opposers by name.
Well, keep in mind that Enns is affiliated with Susan Wise Bower. She is a huge draw financially to some of these conventions and she was upset. There is a money trail here and it's not pretty. Sad for all involved. Ken Ham pointed out anti-biblical themes in Enns work. So far nothing has surfaced, that I can tell, of what Ken Ham actually said. All of it is vague. I don't want to take sides but Enns is messed up doctrinally and Ham had every right to his opinion. Not saying Enns does not...just saying he presents himself as a Christian yet claims Jesus erred and the Word is erred. It goes beyond that as well. Enns was suspended from teaching at a seminary due to his beliefs that bible stories are myths. How is this man selling bible curriculum? At any rate, it seems Enns has the right backers...financially. Sad situation for all...many are boycotting the conventions. That is sad for those who earn their living from those conventions...many small publishing and family companies may suffer..or not. It depends. This may blow over as these things do.
I heard about this, too. I don't know all the details, but I'm sure there's some he-said-she-said going on. What I care about is that parents aren't getting a choice to see first-hand what the company has to offer because of something outside their control. If this is purely a Christian conference that is being led by a board of directors and such, yes, they should kick people out if they don't agree with what that person/group stands for. I didn't think this was a Christian conference, though??? I thought it was inclusive of any type of publisher? If it's true that he really DID say something bad about the conference ITSELF, then yeah... I'd boot him, too. I don't know the details, and I don't care. I agree that this move will hurt the little people, though. It's bringing lots of publicity and advertising to the one they were trying to quiet, and it's bringing lots of quiet to the ones who need the most advertisement.
You might want to see these links before you begin writing. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256572 http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2011/03/19/teaching-the-truth-amidst-a-sea-of-lies/ http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/b...mpromiser-speaking-at-homeschool-conventions/
THANKS! I will read as much as I can before writing. I do not plan on taking the angle of taking sides so much though. Too much speculation. I think this will hurt homeschoolers and Christians on some level even if in a minor way. At any rate...it's timely so I will write about it and give as much detail as I can find. I don't care about the infighting as much as I care it seems to be handled poorly. It's shame to see Christians acting poorly like this. Dr. Jay Wile had some things to say against Ken Ham as well. So sad...no matter what "side" you are on.
In this whole mess let us not forget a perk of homeschooling - parental choice. As a parent I can choose the curriculum that fits with my beliefs. I disagree with the notion that you aren't Christian unless you believe like Ham regarding Genesis. There are many Christians that don't believe a literal account of Genesis. Even those who do believe in a literal account may vary in interpretation. And there are many people who homeschool who are not Christian either. A conference doesn't seem to be the proper venue to bash other presenters. I would think people would want to hear a speaker in order to hear what the speaker offers to homeschoolers. Anyway this reminds me why I try to avoid Christian materials for science. I want science to be about science and not an argument about viewpoints.
For the record, I have zero investment in this issue. We are secular homeschoolers, and I believe (and teach my kids) about evolution. Here's the issue though: On Ken's OWN blog, he attacks speakers at the convention again and again. Regardless of his views, that is completely unprofessional. He even throws in a plug for himself.. On fb, I tune out the people who constantly complain and whine about others. we all have an off day now and then- so everyone has the right to complain once in awhile. But to keep that going, day after day after day... it's just so... high school. It is one thing to have views different than others- heck, some of my views are COMPLETELY different than the majority of others on this board. But do I spend my time blogging about it? Do I complain that you guys think differently than I do? Nope- because we are here for a common reason. I can choose to present my viewpoints without attacking anyone. And, generally, if I feel attacked I choose not to attack back- because that just isn't what adults do. I don't know anything about the conference. I am not going by anything that the people from the conference said about Ken. I am basing my opinion SOLELY on his own words. And I think he seems inflammatory, inflexible, and childish. It is tantamont to running a hate campaign against the other speakers. Sure- they can disagree. But one doesn't need to take that disagreement across the world via the World Wide Web. Another thing- and this may seem strange. But I think both parties are getting exactly what they wanted. Ken gets publicity for his books, his blog, and his lectures. The conference gets new blood curious about what they ARE talking about. Agree with you all though- the vendors may suffer. Or not... usually this type of thing tends to spike numbers.
Excellent points as always, Embassy. I was under the impression that Ken Ham made comments as far as his opinion and not at a convention about a fellow presenter. I will reread everything again. While I agree with Ken Ham, and think Enns is a scary addition to any biblical curriculum, things have a proper way of being handled. I am not saying Ken Ham was bashing anyone...I cannot find the specifics on what he said. But I have more to read and I am in the middle of writing several other articles.
You know what irks me? All this talk of bringing Christianity out of the Dark Ages, doing away with antiquated doctrines, and modernizing our otherwise shameful beliefs. Yes, those are the comments from people speaking out against Ham. I'm not an AiG fan. My mental jury is still out on Old Earth vs. New Earth and it probably will be for a while because it's not an issue upon which I dwell. But the comments like those I mentioned above are VERY troubling to me. If God is the same yesterday, today, and forever and if the Bible is His authoritative word, no true believer can "update" or "modernize" the Word just to seem less old-fashioned. That's heresy. Either the Bible is truth or it is not. Period.
I will have to check that out. My pastor dislikes Ken Ham but I am not sure why since their beliefs are similar...maybe that is why? I'll check into Ken Ham's blog. I read some of what he has written but have not seen him attack anyone. I could have missed it. Agreed. The FB I was talking about was everyone sharing the news since many on there were involved or going to the conventions. It was simply sharing and discussing. In fact, those I am involved with have been calling for reconciliation and prayer and not complaining. Maybe I chose my friends wisely....LOL. Agreed! Well stated. I had not considered that...makes sense though. It is not as if Ken Ham would suffer by not attending the conventions really. The conventions have more of draw with Susan Wise Bower anyway...and most likely why they decided to kick out Ken Ham.
I don't agree with Enns Biblical curriculum either. But some people do and parents have the right to choose between the two viewpoints. I don't know about others, but as a parent I depend on myself to choose the Biblical viewpoint I want to pass on to my child. I would check it out for myself. I don't need some guy telling me at a conference not to buy a certain curriculum when the author of that curriculum was present. It is not like Ham was at a conservative Christian convention, was he?
You are correct. Ken Ham said on his blog that many have thanked him and did purchase material based on what he said. I found that odd...can't people think for themselves? Even if you were wrong and purchased something that did not fall in line wouldn't you know it? LOL. I agree...Embassy. Thanks for being logical and seeing things clearly. I am prone to gnashing my teeth when I think something I believe in is being attacked before seeing all sides. Yes, I admit to it everyone! LOL.
Amen! Enns says that the Word is flawed because Jesus erred while on earth thus the men who wrote the bible also erred. Crazy. I am not a HUGE Ken Ham fan...I'm in the camp of "he's okay".
That's not necessarily heresy. It is history. The Bible is truth - definitely. But people have changed their interpretation of the words of the Bible throughout history.
Okay I read a few posts by Ken Ham. I didn't see anything that was a big deal. I must be missing something...but I did not read where Ken Ham bashed anyone. He pointed out material he thinks is in error...and perhaps he could have done that differently...but he has every right to give his opinion. I think the timing was wrong and it's a bit insulting for him to "warn" homeschoolers as many either know truth or are okay with Enns. (did I just assume Enns is wrong...lol...yep I did...do NOT like the man! lol)
Exactly! You certainly should! I returned a Bible curriculum before my kids even saw it. I read it and decided it wasn't teaching according to our beliefs.
I consider stating that a person is teaching a "sea of lies" bashing. He names names and is not talking about an idea - he refers to a specific person and a specific curriculum.
Sorry- I should have been more clear. My understanding was that Ken Ham had a fb page going about the same issue. I wasn't talking about your fb I think when he says he is speaking the truth in a field of lies (out of context, can't remember the exact title), and when he calls the opposing view 'unfortunate', then he IS being inflammatory even if he never actually says "those morons!" kwim? Obviously that is just my personal viewpoint on it
I can understand that and can see how some could say it was bashing but still I'm thinking he is just giving his opinion. I do think he should have addressed the ideas, as you mentioned, and not a person or curriculum.
