Another thing to keep in mind, whether you go with Saxon or SF.... They are designed for classrooms first. That means there's LOTS of review in the beginning. Rachael complained about that. "I ALREADY KNOW THIS!!!" So I gave her the first chapter test. She got 95%. I gave her the second chapter test, and again she had over 90%. I kept giving her the chapter tests until suddenly her grade dropped to 70%. That was where we started the book. We were able to cut out almost a third of the book that way, and with the constant review built into Saxon, it didn't matter.
Scott Foresman reviews in every chapter review and test. That was a good idea Jackie. I just force Avery to do it. I guess I though the review of skills would be good for her. She is one that needs that constant review of previously learned skills or she forgets. Oh, I also like the average of the perfect scores in with the other tests that she doesn't do quite as well on, lol. I want to think more like you Jackie. I hate feeling so rigid and by the book. I hardly ever skip problems or lessons myself. I'll try to be better.
Calvert math is sold separately. You can't just buy Calvert LA which I know a lot of people would LOVE but...the do sell several things separately now. My guess is that if you are looking to not spend more than $75 then don't consider Calvert. It will cost you $115 plus shipping of about $8 I picked up the 4th grade math off ebay. The textbook is hardback and the practice pages are a workbook. Some of the workbook pages were used but...got both of them and shipping for $37. I didn't get the teacher manual, test or that stuff but....not a big deal to me. So...like I said Tina has turned me into an ebay junkie. ROFL Singapore is ahead. That's why I like it!!! :lol: Most math programs don't start introducing multiplication until late second/third grade and Singapore throws it in there in the 2A book (they have A & B levels so...A is first then B and the number is the "grade"). So...like I said I like Singapore because it's cheap and adds variety but...can't say I'd use it as my spine. I think each book level is only around $7 so...figure you'd use two textbooks and two practice books a year...that's only $28 plus shipping. CHEAP!!!!
Missy, I have been told that "real" teachers have the most difficult time HS'ing because they have trouble "unlearning" all they learned at Teacher School. They tend to do more "school at home" rather than "homeschool", if you know what I mean! I know I have that problem sometimes! But my background was Special Ed, so I was "trained" how NOT to use the textbooks (since very few met the needs of my students!). Even so, I'm still trying to learn to put my "training" aside and just enjoy being MOM!!! Sheila, thanks for setting me straight about Calvert. I was basing my comments on not being able to get the LA stuff!
Sheila, Sorry to keep buggin' you, but I'm trying to figure all this out.... Why would you not have Sing. Math as your spine? What is it that doesn't work for you with it? How fast can you work through it? Would you do both A and B in one year, and really not more than that? I think you're right about the Calvert math. I'm homeschooling three, including one in highschool, so I can't get too high price-wise on one curriculum! Jackie, I did my dd's 1st grade Saxon math that way, otherwise she (at 5 years old!) claimed that "This is boring! I already know this stuff!" So we skipped a lot of pages. She had great retention of what she learned, so didn't miss out on anything by skipping the repetitive sections. It just helped her not get frustrated with it. I kind of hate paying that much for a program, then not using 1/3 of the book because it has so much review though! But, there is not one "perfect" math program, obviously, cuz what's perfect for one, isn't for another, so I'll have to find what ever works best... Oh, and Saxon has a homeschool Kit for each grade, don't they? Wouldn't that make it less classroom oriented? Or did you mean the way the book is written in general? Missy, Don't they have ANYWHERE I can review some pages? Seems like they're doing themselves a disservice not to let people preview it! I forget if you've said, but where is it in the scale of easy - average - advanced for each grade?
No, homeschool kit does NOT mean it's written with less review. With a school, the teacher has a big, fat Teacher's Manual with all kids of "extra" stuff that we as homeschoolers don't really need or use. Have you used Horizons? They are like that. Saxon's HS kit, at least with the middle school, contains pretty much the text book and an answers book, and basically that's it. Oh, and a test booklet with answers! This way, you don't have to buy a TM. I just don't see the need to spend time doing what they already know. Even with Rachael and Pre-algebra this year, we skipped a few chapters in the beginning I felt she had a good understanding on. I'll do that next year, too.
My dd and ds took the Saxon Placement tests today. My ds, who will be in 8th grade, tested for Algebra 1/2, and my dd (who is still 8 yo for a few more days), who will be in 5th grade, tested for 76! Is Algebra 1/2 usually for 7th grade or 8th grade? I hear that many people go from 76 to Alg. 1/2 or from 87 to Algebra 1. Is that true that people do that? Do any of you know the usual route, or does it depend on the child?
Yes, that's true. My understanding is that you go from 76 to EITHER 87 or 1/2. Rachael did 76 last year. She was 5th grade then. And she's done very well in Pre-Algebra, WITHOUT 87. Deena, I think this is one of the times when you need to stop thinking "grade". It will vary from one kid to the next.
Okay, if I do go with Saxon I wanted to know that. Why is it that they skip 87, is it just more of a review?
Deena, Singapore tends to cut to the chase and whip through things. They don't give much space for work but, yet early on they expect the kids to be able to do horizontal math. I think if they offered more space for writing in the workbooks then it would be TONS better. But...to scribble down the side to figure you answer....I just don't like that for 8 problems on 1 page that are intermixed with several other problems that maybe don't need as much writing room. As far as content.... it's zippy and moves at a quick pace. If the child is not strong in math...I'd look right over it. They teach multiplication and simple division in the 2A book. Yes, that is the first *semester* of 2nd grade. I haven't picked up our next set yet. Trying to decide if I wait until bookfair time in May or just order it and pay shipping. I do like the simple color pictures they offer in the lower grades but...I don't know about he upper grades. There isn't much review and all and I just feel like it's not a solid math base. Math is a pyramid skill. If you don't have that solid bottom then....the top will only crumble. I know people do use Singapore as their only math but....to have horizontal math equations (oh yeh sometimes they don't use the equal sign) and not give you a place to write your answer...that's just wrong. :wink: My ds1 is the human calculator so....throwing in Singapore is a good thing for him. A child that isn't strong in math might just frustrated. My two cents worth. I guess my logic is that Saxon would be better if the child is planning to head to college. There is nothing that says if they are ahead that they can't take a college course of Calculus for their junior or senior year of high school. :lol: BUT....most schools are use Saxon and...oh boy to have that jump start and be on the same playing field but...only at the next level. :lol: Math...you just keep on truckin' there isn't really anything to slow you down once you get the concept. Unlike soft vs. hard g's and c's and cursive and i before e except after c and in Sheila. :wink: That is one thing that the Calvert advisors told me...let them run on math and hold up on the reading stuff because of the writing skills that have to develop. (sigh). I know that didn't help much since there are soooo many choices but...you have to consider what you and your children find to be a fit. Maybe, your kids are terrible at math and do not planning on going to college or if they do...not majoring in anything that requires math. I've heard Math-U-See if real good for those that take a little longer to "get" math concepts. Keep us posted!!!
Thanks She, that was a lot of help. I wish I was more like you and Tina and knew when and how to supplement! I just get overwhelmed and plow through the one thing per subject that we have. Well, that's for Science and math. For history I can run with that one! I love it! My ds used to be a whiz at math, but is struggling a bit more now. My dd seems to really go with math. She gets frustrated a little when she doesn't understand something, digs in and learns it, then gets bored if she has to do too much of it. However, I want her to keep understanding and remembering each concept so she can build on that for the higher math! Her B-day is Friday, but we had some mom-'n-me time today, and I bought her a watch that she's been wanting. On the way home in the car she read the directions, set the watch time and knows all about it and how each thing works now! That's like her dad.....HALLELUJAH! During each pregnancy I prayed that this child would take after their dad intellectually, and it seems my prayers have been answered! I'm so happy about that I can't even put it to words, but I feel pretty dumb sometimes! :lol: That's okay, my children have more opportunities than I did, and that's what I always wanted! Anyway, I digress.......... I want to give her the opportunity to do well in math, she's certainly capable! And I was starting to see that the LifePacs were making her lazy about it. Also, I'm thinking that if I find something that has some more repetition with all the facts, not just mostly one at a time, that my ds would get it better and be able to move on better. He's VERY intelligent also, just kind of lazy/sloppy about it. Anyway, thanks again Sheila-with-an-i after-the-e-which-goes-against-the-normal-English-rules! :lol: (How do you like that for a name?!) My name goes against something rather, cuz I have two e's in a row--normally it would be an ea or ie! So I'm right there with ya!
ROFL Deena, I wouldn't say that supplementing comes naturally. Tina has been a BIG help for me! Some of it is just finding the right fit and stepping outside of the "public school mentality" box. In the beginning I felt like I had this and that was that but....it was choking me and my son so...I branched out and started adding in things. Then I thought oh no! I know I want to add this in but...where does this puzzle piece fit and how do I give this work on top of the other easy stuff we "have" to do. Well...you don't do what they know or you cut it in half or do it one day and the tougher stuff another day. It's just trying to find balance and it does find balance, eventually. ROFL We use a bunch of different sources around here and I've learned to put our Criticial thinking on two days of the week and Vocab connections on a different 2 days, Phonics thrown in 3-4 times a week, spelling is 4 out of 5 days, grammar is 4-5 days a week, reading & comprehension gets worked in throughout the week, math is every day, piano practice is everyday, science is twice a week, history twice a week, arts & crafts are dependent on what the history & science is for the week. Left to add in....journal writing, paragraph writing, spanish. I just put us on this plan in January and it works REALLY well. But...trying to determine how many pages to assign of each thing...takes some getting use to. You don't want them to have their little fingers fall off from too much writing in one day. HA! So...while it sounds like a lot...Phonics might mean one worksheet for the day. It's fun and I love it! oops gotta run....
You know She, I sometimes have flashes of clarity where I can see that this thing would enhance the learning of that thing, etc., but then after I buy it and get it home, I forget about it, and it sits on a shelf somewhere until I'm past where I need it. THEN I find it again! :lol: ROFL I'm thankful my kids are doing well, despite me!!! Jackie, I did post stuff about grades, just to clarify, but you're right, I want to meet each child where they're at and where it will do the most good, despite what grade level they or the thing being learned are! My two main surprises with the Saxon tests is that my ds tested a bit lower than I thought, and my dd tested higher than I thought. She's still only 8, so I was surprised she tested for 76. But I'm glad I had them take the tests, cuz it helped me see them more clearly. Okay, I'm surprised I'm saying this, cuz I was opposed to using it after our last encounter with it, but I'm leaning toward trying Saxon! I found the most information about it and know more about what it's about than I could find about any of the others. Does anyone know about the DIVE cd's?
Deena.. Yep, have to add my .02 cents I just haven't had the time to post... Anyway, my reading and talking to homeschoolers all tell me the same thing about Saxon..that it does not prepare them well for highschool.. But there is always good and bad on both sides of anything,kwim? WTM says Saxon will work fine through highschool. But for people who don't need tons of reviews, or Saxons *pieces to whole* incremental approach it can be very frusterating. My oldest doesn't need it, he can *swallow* the whole process and wants to at one time--but my middle guy needs all the breaking down he can get.. I wish I could put my finger on where I read the exact specifics of how it was not as good for high school..I'll keep looking-but right now everything is lost in this house... Soooooo, what this Planning Paula LOL has been doing for the past 2 months or so is researching all the high schools on line. I checked into University of Texas and Keystone both. Keystone is the one that, well Calvert can't come right out and say they recommend it, but they say *its the one most of their students go to*. Calvert said they have high academic standards.. Anyway, Keystone uses Glencoe Macgraw Hill..Here is a cut/paste from one of my research pages. LOL I'm still trying to figure out the publisher of the one for Texas Tech when I get some time... Book used by Texas Tech... ISBN: 0-02-825326-4).. I need to research this to see who is this publisher.. Used Book - Geometry: Explorations and Applications (ISBN: 0-395-72285-3) Books used by Keystone TEXTBOOKS Algebra 1 (iSchool) by Berchie Holliday, 2003, Glencoe McGraw-Hill. Algebra 1: Applications and Connections (correspondence) by Alan G. Foster, et al., 1995, Glencoe McGraw-Hill. I'm still putting together my research. Another couple of options that I really liked is that I have heard wonderful feedback from both Chalkdust Math and Classmate Math...I think their websites are www.chalkdustmath.com and www.classmatemath.com It just so happens both of these companies are in my backyard, here in Houston. Both of these use CDS which I like, like Saxon Dives...and for the math phobic mom, but are good on instruction, but yet the student is able to move ahead if he has it, if not ---play the DVD again,kwim? Another one I have heard rave reviews about too is Textbook Math.. I still need to look into the pros/cons of this one also. In addition, math u see has wonderful feeback too. But MUS is not really for one who is planning to need a degree in anything other than basic math. But MUS is considered a wonderful program and it what is considered the *norm* with just high schoool graduation, but not really for students wanting to advance in math. I too keep getting feedback from sources like Merrill and Houghton Mifflin that a lot of home schoolers are using in highschool and they seem to prepare them well for the basics of college.. One thing I am figuring out is that if you want him to take the math test , oh what is it called PSAT like in the 11th grade, then he needs to have had some pretty strong math, like pre, or even algebra 1 and advanced mathematics by the 10th grade since it is taken in the spring of his junior year...... Then as I understand it, it would be Algebra 1 starting in 8th grade instead of 9th. This leaves room for taking calculus in 12th grade. Again this is for someone who wishes to qualify for scholarships and/or wants/needs this advanced math for college,etc.... If not, then a nice pace would Algebra 1 in 9th grade, Algebra II, then Geometry and an elective maybe in 12th...I think this is how MUS does it too.. Oh well, that is my .02 cents for now....Off to pack some more boxes.. Grrrrr..I'll be glad when we're moved! About another 2 weeks or so...and I don't want to see ANOTHER box for a long time.... Hope that helps!
Tina, Thanks for your comments! Now I'm even more confused! It's been stated in this thread that MUS only does one subject per year, or per book. Wouldn't it be better to have reviews of more concepts? I can't imagine spending a whole year on one thing, then all the other concepts would fall by the wayside, it seems! We also had a person on this thread say that Saxon really helped them learn math well and they excelled through highschool and are doing well in college because of it. Another mom that wouldn't use anything but Saxon because her kids are doing so well with it. Both talked about how well it prepares for higher math. So I'd love to hear what is wrong with it, aside from the repitition! I will look at Chalkdust and Classmate maths and see what they look like. Thanks for the site addresses and idea!
Tina, I couldn't get to a site with the chalkdust math address you posted. It just went to the white "This page cannot be displayed" page. The classmate math looked kind of interesting, but they won't let you know the prices unless you fill out a form with address etc., and I don't know that I want to do that. Then you start getting all this junk mail from the company. I just want to know how much it costs per year. Are both chalkdust and classmate math on dvd's only? I think we're not wanting too much on dvd's, especially if they are in charge of when things are due, etc. If I could run it at my son's own pace, then it'd be okay, though. Thanks for your help!
Deena, http://www.chalkdust.com/ That is weird about the classmate not giving a price until you put in info - what's up with that? Did you notice the * by the miniumum of 20 students? ROFL :lol: Something you want to tell us? :lol: I know a lot of homeschoolers either use the chalkdust or dive. HTH Sheila
Sheila, No NOTHING I have to tell you!!! I didn't notice that. So, guess that one is out! I'll try your link to chalkdust. Thanks!
I don't think I want that one either. Sheila, I went to the Calvert site. Do they have a placement test so you know what level of math to get? I couldn't find any mention of it, but wouldn't know exactly what level to get without one.
