Why kids hate school

I think every student's exposure to a variety of "subjects" is important, for how else would one know if he has an aptitude for any one of them. What a waste for an Einstein not have the opportunity to know his potential! On the other hand, if the one with such a mind chose not to be a mathematician, I can appreciate that. Being good at something does not always equate to having a heart for it. At the same time, I would not like to see a Mozart told that he could not compose until he had learned calculus. What would the reasoning for that? This is why homeschooling/tutoring has the greater potential to be far superior for the individual student if done well, because it encourages the potential in a child according to what it should be, not dictates what it must be.

As to public school system, it is the default system in an attempt to educate the masses and, because of its function, it will continue to have standards that the masses are expected to meet--standards that ill fit the individual but are better suited to meet the standards for higher education institutions. Regardless of its level or prestige, institutionalized education cannot recognize, encourage, or accommodate the true potential of the individual outside of those standards--it simply is not able.

 

In an ideal world, yeah. Everyone deserves the same basic education.

But the reality is that in poorer school districts parents are less involved in their child's education (this is a statistic, not a judgement). The student is less likely to do any homework and more advanced classes to poor students with little to no parental support or involvement in their education means a larger percentage of students in that school don't ever end up graduating; which in the long run is hurting them more than the 'exposure to things' a biology or lit class is helping them.

The fact is, on average, 1/4 of students don't graduate from high school in the US.

Maybe our views are different because I'm in the SE (I don't know what state you're in) and the SE US has the lowest graduation rates in the nation. Some counties here in GA have less than 50% graduation rate!

I see these people who suffer because of it. Those who can't graduate high school, who can't do the work required because the schools failed them in elementary or middle school...so they drop out.

I see these people working hard for a paycheck that doesn't cover the bills. I see these people who are told 'oh the American dream of a big house and fancy cars and blah blah blah can be yours, anyone can go to college and make something of themselves'. The fact is no, not everyone can, in reality, make it work.

The reality is the school system is failing these kids in the lower grades then punishing them for its own failure once they reach high school.

We can agree to disagree on the subject I respect your views and I understand them, I just don't share them...in full...we do agree on a lot, we just disagree on the details :love:

 

I understand what you are saying. I worked in a school district in Texas one year. During that year I worked in two different schools as a SLP. One was poor and kids had to worry about their next meal - a kid pulled a knife on another kid in my class. You know... The other school was amazing. The education was top notch. It was more of a middle class neighborhood. I sat in classes in both schools to observe my students. The teaching was not equal. Expectations were not even close to equal. I'm saying that they should be. This was in elementary school so I can imagine the disparity was even greater in high school. We shouldn't lower our expectations and teach more basically because kids come from a background that is more difficult. We should provide more support to help them meet the same goals that the kids in the middle class neighborhood are expected to do.

 

I watched a very interesting video (I think on you tube, or it might have been on Netflix) called something like "College Conspiracy Scam." In parts it was a little "conspiracy theory" and over the top, but he made some excellent points, similar to this article. College is becoming too expensive for most Americans, and most college graduates don't go into a career field that they studied in college anyway. You are stuck paying student loans for many years, and had you skipped the college education, or at least skipped the 4 year university, you'd be taking home more money. I think we try too hard to put every child through college. Not every child can / should / wants to go to college. It would be great to see high school tone down the AP Calculus IV and replace it with Personal Accounting. It'd be nice to see Home Economics class skip the rice crispy treats and actually teach students how to run a household. It'd be nice to see a high school tract, perhaps voluntary for kids and families who know they won't be attending a 4 year university, that teaches students more skills, like mechanics and how to run a small business, rather than 18th century Brittish Literature. If 18 year-olds could graduate high school with the skills needed to jump directly into the workforce (in a good paying job), or the skills to start their own business, that's a good thing for our country. There is nothing wrong with choosing a tract that does not include a Bachelor's or higher degree, and therfore it is a bit of a waste of time to prep for something you don't plan to use. Perhaps 9th graders are too young to make these decisions, but 11th and 12th graders are not. That's my opinion anyway.

Laura

 

Our high school offers what amounts to college prep. There is no general ed classes offered. It starts with algebra in 9th grade and moves up from there. The kids who could use a remedial or basic math (I was one of those kids 25 years ago) are just dragged along for the ride. Physics & chemistry are mandatory to graduate. The homework load for regular ed kids is incredible. I can't even imagine with the college prep/honors kids must be doing.

I live in a college town and worked in a grocery store for awhile. It amazed me how many college kids didn't know how to use a debit and didn't realize that it came out of the bank right then. If there was no funds available he/she would try to write a check off of that same account. I watched young women cry because they were confused and frustrated at not knowing what to do. I bet they knew the periodic table. Or could quote Dickens.

 

I've just discovered this thread, and haven't read all the responses.

1) I LOVED IT!!!

2) Not only is Algebra 1 REQUIRED for graduation, but so is Algebra 2, at least where we live. I've already told dh that there's NO WAY I am going to force my daughter, who just finished Alg. 1 with a low "B", to take Alg. 2, too. We started Geometry today, and next year we'll do the personal finances stuff.

3) Same with Science. She's taking Biology right now, but I've not decided on whether to require Chemistry.

4) Sounds like an "unschooler" to me!!!

 

I think a lot of stuff they teach is useless and it is tested in absurd ways. When I went to high school, we studied a chapter, did some worksheets and took a test. Sometimes the tests were VERY easy to pass. They often did not show real learning.

I think individuals should be able to decide more of what they learn. Doctors should be able to study more intensely about the human body- not phyla or whether or not we evolved from primordial slime. Historians should be able to study in depth certain time periods and or course learn a good overview. Scientists should be able to learn all the math they need for their particular speciality and the science they need to do what they they want.

Here is some examples of what I consider useless:

1. Learning the states and capitals- states I understand, but why or why do we need to know the capitals. I have never needed to know the capital of any state.

2. Memorizing math formulas- the memorization will only last a short time for many people. Plus, it is more important to know how to use them than just the formula itself. Also, if a student is going to go into a math related field the constant exposure will generally lead to memorizing over time.

3. Memorizing historical dates- yes, some are significant. I think that is more important to know the why's and the consequences of events. There is way to much emphasis put on knowing the dates.

4. Foreign language- I love foreign languages and would love to learn 3 or 4 by the time I die. I don't see why we should force something on students that will not stick in their brains much past their graduation date if even that long. If a person has a reason and a true desire to learn, they will do so by their own choice.

 

Cabsmom, what DO you consider "important"? I would suggest that the majority of what we learn is "useless" in one sense, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't learn it.

 

Jackie,

I only named a few things. I think it is important to learn the English language and how to write well. I think it is important to know how to do math (the level varies in my opinion upon the person).

I do, however, think that a lot of students "learn" algebra I and maybe algebra II only to later not know how to count change. Something is wrong there. Maybe we go to fast and don't cement the basics. Maybe the students don't care. I don't know the answer. I just think too much time is given to memorizing formulas when if they are used enough they will naturally be memorized.

I do think history is important. I am not throwing the baby out with the bath water (how does that quote go?). I just think memorizing a long list of dates and the events that occur is not really learning what is important about history. I actually think it would be better to have the students write more papers about history and the why's, how's, and consequences.

Why should we learn the capitals of the states? The only useful thing is if you are playing some kind of trivia game. For goodness sake, if I ever NEEDED to know a capital I could look it up.

Do you think it is important for a doctor to "learn" that we evolved from primordial soup? I don't, it won't help him diagnose my illness.

I do think some things are a good idea to memorize- multiplication tables, names of some people and even some dates.

All in all, I don't think my previous post suggested that I don't think anything is important. I just think that there are a lot of problems with the current educational system.

Maybe I got the wrong impression from your question to me. It seemed that you loved the article and even agreed with some of it. Then, it seemed that when I stated some similar opinions, I was off my rocker. I am confused.

 

http://blog.ted.com/2012/10/15/6-highly-unusual-schools/

 

I apologize if I came off obnoxious; that wasn't my intention. I was just curious. I mean, Faythe can name the kings/queens of England from the War of the Roses to just after the Civil War; now THAT'S a bit of trivial knowledge that won't really do her any good in life, lol! And no, I didn't formally "teach" them to her. And my 8th grade history teacher had us memorize the presidents in order...again, something I can honestly say I never have used in "real life", and I sure as heck couldn't do it now! (But I CAN name the capitals of most states, and I do think a working knowledge of the geography of this country and the world in general is a good thing to have!)

But I do agree with much of what you say. That's why I've decided there is NO WAY Faythe is going to be forced into Algebra 2, no matter WHAT the government says! And she hasn't had a foreign language, though I feel learning one really IS important in our society.

Whose "fault" is it? I would guess a combination. It's easy to dump it all on teachers, because they "don't teach". But they are overworked and underpaid, spending much more time and out-of-pocket money on their students, with administration who only cares about how things look on paper, and their bottom dollar. I was listening again about the school in San Antonio that has put the tracking chips into the students' IDs. And the issue isn't "We think keeping track of our kids will keep them in class, and they'll perform better." Instead, I'm hearing, "We're losing all this money because the kids don't show up, and we want them here so we can get our money!" The focus is on the money, not on the kids. Who cares if they're learning or not, as long as there's a warm body there so we can get more money? That's why they get so irritated about us homeschoolers!

You've got parents that don't care, teachers that are overworked, and a public that is fussing but unwilling to make any real change. And things are only going to get worse!!!

 

My ds wants to be a mechanic like his dad. So, probably no college for him. But I'm still going to teach things like higher math, good literature, good LA skills, etc. Because basically, I'd rather him not sound like an "illiterate grease monkey" while dealing with his customers. He may not 'pass' all the courses, but if he's had some exposure to it, he'll at least know what he might want to pursue on his own in his own time. Blue collar workers (especially here in the south) get a bad rap as uneducated rednecks, and I'd rather him be a well-rounded individual. Having said that, I loved the article. I agreed with most of it. I think it has more to do with the fact that most schools just make learning all of that stuff so tedious. My ds isn't going to WANT to learn all that stuff, so it's my job to make it fun and interesting, and create a curiosity about various subjects, something public schools just can't do.

 

Ok Jackie,

I took it the wrong way. I tend to get defensive too easily. I am sorry.

I go back and forth in some of the things I think I should cover in homeschool. In my "ideal" world I would not even worry about some of it. I wouldn't be forcing my son to learn chemistry right not. Heck, we wouldn't even be doing geometry now either. But, alas, we are doing both. As far as algebra II, no way unless he wants to (which I can't see happening).

I don't know where the requirements should exactly be. I do think that right now there are some mistakes being made on where the emphasis is placed.

In my opinion, there is a lot of learning that is not really learning. The schools can pat themselves on the back and move on when the kids pass tests full of true/false, matching and fill-in-the-blank type of questions when these type of tests are not really that great at measuring comprehension. I would cram before my history tests and make excellent grades, but I remembered (long term) virtually nothing. I couldn't even tell you what century the Civil War was. Now I can, but I am learning much more as an adult.

It is impossible to make a one size fits all education. They either have to dumb it down or tweak things here and there to help everyone get by.

Of course, in homeschooling we can change things up. I have done some changing here, but I am cautious about throwing everything to the wind, because I know the system hasn't changed and my son is living in the real world not my ideal world.

 

I see your point. But I wonder (and not just what you mean), but what exactly is a well rounded person?

I see a great value in being able to work with your hands. I think academically scholarly people should learn things to be well rounded in this area. Why aren't the geniuses forced to take shop class? If you think about it, some very well educated people don't know the first thing about the car they drive.

 

I totally cam ein late on this conversation, and really don't have the time to look through everyone's comments, but I thought I'd put my two cents in:

I graduated highschool in 2006. That same year, I got married, and 10 months later I had my first boy. I had no idea how to take care of a family, manage finances, or anything like that. My parents were fabulous, but like most parents they worked full time and Mum was so tired when she came home (as a nurse) she had a hard time teaching me anything. Looking back on my High school days I don't remember learning much. What do I remember?

I remember bawling my eyes out in front of pythagorian thyorums, and complicated algebraic problems we were supposed to master in two days. No amount of afterschool tutoring helped and any assistance I got from ym parents was useless because they didn't understand it either. Yea, I memorized the whole periodic table, but do I use it? HA...no. I haven't thought about the table of elements in years, actually!

I agree about the different levels of school. THAT is needed.

 

Hey Guys,

I thought I would say a couple of things, as a Drafting Instructor for the past 30 years in the public school system, I have seen many changes. Although some may not think that learning different things are not important, but all fields of education works with each other. If I didn't have the skills in geometry, science, and even humanities, I couldn't be the drafting instructor that I am today. Let's face it, public education would be the perfect place to go if only they had supportive parents like you! What it boils down to is parents need to start teaching their children when they are first born which will guide them in a positive direction for the future.

 

WHEN are we going to get a LIKE button?

 

Mr. Murray

 

I see an education as a means of opening up doors and options that would otherwise be unavailable. I completely agree with teaching the practical aspects of life, such as personal finance, cooking, sewing, basics in vocational trades, etc. But I also believe in preparing every person for the potential to succeed in college. College doesn't have to be Ivy League or private universities. College can be community college for a few years at night and on weekends while the student works full time, if the means aren't immediately available for university tuition. Financial aid is also widely available (although I no longer believe in debt, even for education, after personally experiencing the effects). Just based on my own experience, I would not want to shortchange my children with their education. When I was a junior in high school I still was not sure I wanted to go to college. I took the PSATs only because all my friends were taking them. My goal back then was to be a horse trainer and professional competitive rider. Fortunately, my riding instructor convinced me I needed to get an education that I could fall back on if needed. Turns out, being a horse trainer is not what I wanted for a career. While I am a SAHM mom now, someday I intend to pursue an advanced degree in Animal Science, most likely in animal nutrition and/or reproduction or genetics. I only have that option because of the chemistry and biology classes I took in high school, which allowed me to take college-level chemistry, biology, organic chemistry, and biochemistry as part of my BS in Animal Science, all of which will be invaluable to me when I earn my PhD. I never could have foreseen myself wanting this particular career track, but I am there now. I may even change my mind again in the future. But that's okay because I have a broad education that has given me the option to do so. I don't expect my children to know what they want to do for the rest of their lives when they are 18, but I want them to have the options to pursue anything they want by having a broad education. And I also want them to be able to cook for themselves, manage their finances, and go to a trade school if they decide college is not for them.