"christianity" vs. following Christ

C

cabsmom40

Active Member
This is a thought that came to me after visting some family:

"In this marginally Christian nation, it is socially acceptable to call yourself a Christian unless you want to follow Christ."

I see this when I went to a wedding and I see the youth from the church dancing to the very un-Christian music with the same enthusiasm that they dance at the front of the church to worship music.

I also see this when I am visiting people who are leading a vacation Bible school speak about going out to the clubs and getting drunk.

I see this when a co-worker of mine is always carrying her Bible around and reading at break time, but is unpleasant with others.

I see this in myself when I look at how I acted as a new Christian and how I act when I act rude or impatient instead of how Christ wants me to act. I will say now that the Holy Spirit convicts me quickly when my attitude is wrong and I apologize and seek to treat people better from then on.

I am not trying to be judgemental, because I care for the people I have observed. I guess I am just wondering if we have watered down Christianity so much that it is no longer really about laying ourselves down and following Christ. Please remember that I said I am trying not to be judgemental-I really am-I want to always remember my faults and keep things in proper perspective.

I want to grow in my walk with Christ to the extent where I instantly obey Him instead of trying to convince myself that I don't really need to do what He says or at least not right now. I want to obey Him even when what He says doesn't make any sense to me. I want to speak only the kind of words He would want me to speak. I want to remain silent if that is what He asks me to do (which is totally not my nature).

***On a positive note (I don't want to seem to pessimistic), I have seen God working in my life the last year and He has helped me to truly be more upbeat at work and connect with people that I have little in common with. He has helped me look at people in a whole new light.
 
Going to church doesn't mean you are a Christian, and I don't believe that having a drink makes you not one. From my life so far, I have come to the belief that while it is very important to live as God would have you live, that doesn't mean he convicts everyone of the same sins. One person may need to deal with their attitude while another may need to deal with their gossiping tongue. I think the most important part of being a Christian is showing the love of Christ. The other stuff will be dealt with one-on-one between each person and God -- it's their personal relationship. We can never know what is going on with someone else.
There have also always been people who go to church but who are not yet saved. So naturally they would live their life any old way, all the while saying they are Christan. But hopefully they will end up having spoken the truth, just a little ahead of time. ;)
 
I agree that we don't know what is going on with anyone. God may be doing a deep work in their lives, but they just haven't yielded yet.

On the subject of drinking. I can agree that taking a drink does not make you NOT a Christian, but there is a world of difference between taking a drink or two and getting drunk and speaking about it like a badge of honor. I don't know if it wrong to take a drink or two (I have heard it Biblically defended both ways), but I don't think anyone could honestly say that being drunk is alright with God.

That being said, after I was saved (and I truly repented), I backslid and looked like anything but a Christian. I wasn't challenged by anyone (except God). I wasn't told what it really means to lay down your life, but of course I didn't stay in the church consistently either. I just don't know if there is enough preaching on giving up our rights and wants and comforts for the sake of Christ. We have a very comfortable Christianity here in the U.S. I think that it is a huge disadvantage when it comes to our walk with Christ.
 
You are probably very right about that. Most churches I have walked into in the last few years or people that are in authoritative positions in a church that I have spoken with are generally about either how blessed you can be if you claim it or the ends times. Neither of which really breaks down the fact that you will change a lot as you grow closer to God.
 
I agree. It can be very frustrating, especially if you are like me, and it is at the point that its hard to find a church in which you can truly grow or another christian in whom you can truly relate because there are so many Christians as a whole anymore who don't seem the take the lifestyle part of Christiany very seriously anymore. I believe that a new life absolutely comes with a new lifestyle, and that Christians need eachother to hold eachother up and to help eachother grow, there are lots of different perceptions these days of what constitutes a Christian, but it can get lonely and it can be saddening when one cant find another likeminded to grow with:(
 
At a very practical level, how much does television, and to a lesser extent radio, affect our lives? How much has Christian music become a copy of secular music (even the words are hard to distinguish sometimes)? To what extent are church services designed to be entertaining because so many are willing to leave if they don't "like" the format? How difficult have we made it for someone to not conform with the majority? How often do we have serious and meaningful discussions in church? Do churches encourage us to be accountable to one another?
 
Cornish Steve said:
To what extent are church services designed to be entertaining because so many are willing to leave if they don't "like" the format?
Click to expand...

One of my biggest pet peeves EVER! I'm so sick of hearing/seeing advertisements for churches that tout their multi-media displays and not a mention of Godly preaching!

How often do we have serious and meaningful discussions in church?
Click to expand...

Every other Sunday evening, our church has round table discussions of the morning's sermon. The pastor makes up some additional notes (points, questions, and verses) and we sit in groups of 3-6 and really hash it out. The pastoral staff are on hand for questions, but they mostly let us "work out our salvation" without them. It's fantastic! But you're right, it's rare. I've known of many churches where questioning the pastor is strongly discouraged.

Do churches encourage us to be accountable to one another?
Click to expand...

Mine does. But it took my 15 years of living in a church-saturated city to find one that did.
 
katjalily said:
I agree. It can be very frustrating, especially if you are like me, and it is at the point that its hard to find a church in which you can truly grow or another christian in whom you can truly relate because there are so many Christians as a whole anymore who don't seem the take the lifestyle part of Christiany very seriously anymore. I believe that a new life absolutely comes with a new lifestyle, and that Christians need eachother to hold eachother up and to help eachother grow, there are lots of different perceptions these days of what constitutes a Christian, but it can get lonely and it can be saddening when one cant find another likeminded to grow with:(
Click to expand...

This is sadly so true!
 
katjalily said:
I agree. It can be very frustrating, especially if you are like me, and it is at the point that its hard to find a church in which you can truly grow or another christian in whom you can truly relate because there are so many Christians as a whole anymore who don't seem the take the lifestyle part of Christiany very seriously anymore. I believe that a new life absolutely comes with a new lifestyle, and that Christians need eachother to hold eachother up and to help eachother grow, there are lots of different perceptions these days of what constitutes a Christian, but it can get lonely and it can be saddening when one cant find another likeminded to grow with:(
Click to expand...

I know exactly what you are talking about...this is where I am too!
I have been praying about this very thing!
 
I agree with much of what is being said above. Sadly, we are a culture of comfort rather than a culture of truly living out what God asks of us. Too many are "worldly" Christians who want everyone to be accepted regardless of life choices that are directly in violation of God's word for His people. I'm like you in that I'm trying to truly begin living as GOD want, not as I want. Trying to do this in a household where my spouse claims Christianity, but doesn't act like it or live like it most of the time is trying:( I just keep my mind and heart trained on what I'm being led to do through the Word and quiet time and train my children to do the same:) Hopefully leading by example with the kids is all it will take to help DH realize what he's missing out on!
 
I was talking w/my dh about this very thing this morning.

My dh said that the reason so many people reject Christianity is because they run up on so many people who take the banner of Christianity, but live no differently than the rest of the world. They behave badly and have no joy. peace, etc. Why would someone want to join that?

Too often we take the commandment to not take God's name in vain as a prohibition against swearing....what about those who take God's name upon themselves, calling themselves Christians, yet do not live like it? What about those who are truly Christians, yet do not care enough to change their lives?
 
Thank you guys for understanding where I am coming from.

I think I am at a point in my life when I am realizing that I need to be willing to lay down whatever God asks me to--no matter what. If it makes me look like a fool, if it makes me look odd, if it makes no sense to me, etc.

A couple of weeks ago, our pastor didn't preach and the person who did was preaching on "blessed are the pure in heart". That is a wonderful thing to preach on. The only thing is I don't remember a thing about it except when she sang a little tune "Do you see what I see?" (not the whole song, just that line). She was referring to how when we look in a mirror we see ourselves differently than God sees us. HUH?! What about purity? What about taking our thoughts captive?

I have been at this church so long and for the most part I like it, but my soul is being stirred up for something more--more challenges, more growth.

One of the songs we have sung recently has the words in it: "Even if I run away." It is talking about how great God's love is, but this line doesn't settle well with me. To me it seems to say, your saved and you can do what you want because you are saved. I do think God works with people who "run" from Him, but He doesn't take it lightly and neither should we. I also think there is a point where if we run too far and harden our hearts-we can lose the possibility to turn around.
 
Cornish Steve said:
At a very practical level, how much does television, and to a lesser extent radio, affect our lives? How much has Christian music become a copy of secular music (even the words are hard to distinguish sometimes)? To what extent are church services designed to be entertaining because so many are willing to leave if they don't "like" the format? How difficult have we made it for someone to not conform with the majority? How often do we have serious and meaningful discussions in church? Do churches encourage us to be accountable to one another?
Click to expand...

You are so right. People want to deny that the radio/television have any influence. This is one area in my life that I am not laying down like I should. Even typing that is painful because I am admitting that I am not obeying God. I have limited some of the stuff I watch, but I have to ask myself, "OK get serious, what are you watching that you shouldn't be watching?" I can kid myself and think that a lot of people watch this or that so it can't be that bad, but seriously I know that some of those shows that are OK by the world's standards are not OK by God's standards.

I usually listen to Christian music and I don't read anything that is contraversial that I can think of (I read mostly non-fiction about missionaries, history, and at the present time "Knowing God" by J.I. Packer, and if I read fiction-it is Christian). But TV is a habit that I haven't broken yet. I like shows like NCIS. Is that really OK to watch (I ask myself)? In all honesty, I would have to say no--there is a lot of references to casual relationships.

The other point you made is great--entertainment in churches. It seems that the trend is that you have to have a great "youth" center with video games and coffee bar. Why? So people will want to come to your church. Will they get saved?

I think that a great many young people (high school and young adults) really want to be challenged, but don't really think about it enough.

Oh, I don't know the answers, but I do know that I am just really wanting to grow and be challenged and change more things in my life.
 
As to the song...

I'd love to know the rest of the lyrics. Too many times people get bent out of shape over a single line, yet when put in context it is solid Biblical teaching. The same can be said of many Scriptures.

I remember a friend pitching a royal fit the first time we sang Blessed Be the Name because of the words, "You give and takes away." She went on and on about how God never took away anything, etc. OK... But the words were straight from Scripture. No, it's not exactly solid theology (and even Job, who said it, later said, "I spoke of things I did not understand."), but her issue was with the words themselves... words that quoted Scripture. When I pointed that out, she insisted that I was wrong; those were not found in the Bible anywhere. When I showed her where, she went on about how it had something to do with the Apocrypha, etc, etc. She could not accept that it really was in the Bible because she wanted to have a reason to be upset.

I'll be blunt. I'm sick to death of people raging against modern Christian music (as a whole). Yes, there are artists who sing ambiguous lyrics. But they are NOT the majority. As to the similar musicality: If Christians really are filled with the all-powerful Holy Spirit, our music will be more cutting edge than the world's! We have the ultimate "muse"!

I've worked one-on-one with fantastic musicians like Mac Powell and Dan Haseltine and Mark Hall (of Third Day, Jars of Clay, and Casting Crowns, respectively). These are Godly men writing/performing Holy Spirit-inspired tunes for the betterment of their Christian family. To question their music because it's not old-school Southern Gospel or an "ancient" hymn is to question their very calling from the Lord, Himself!

Sometimes they mess up and a song isn't exactly what it should be. But they are human. They are not writing Scripture, they are giving their talents to the Lord. Can you tell me honestly that you've never made a mistake or misrepresented Him in your own work?!

Sorry to get on a soap-box about this, but it's a huge pet-peeve of mine. I don't want a watered-down Gospel. I don't want baby food theology. I want in-your-face, grow & convict teaching that results in real change in my life. And I can't tell you how many times in the last few years that came straight from the very music that too many Christians condemn.
 
Actressdancer,

I don't know if the song if wrong theologically, that line and one other makes me feel uncomfortable. It may be just me. I don't think it is wrong to question things though. I have to be careful where and to whom I question things, because I could be wrong. So please don't think I am always finding fault with songs, etc. I listen to a lot of contemporary Christian music and if I personally don't like the song-I know it is usually just a matter of taste (a lot of times it has nothing to do with the words, just the music or the singer's voice).
 
fairfarmhand said:
They behave badly and have no joy. peace, etc. Why would someone want to join that?
Click to expand...

You might like this (from J.I. Packer's book Knowing God:

"Yet the gaiety, goodness, and unfetteredness of spirit which ar the marks of those who have known God are rare amoung us..."

This is something that I am truly thankful to God for, because He has really impressed upon me that I need to be joyful at work and spread it to others. I work with a lot of people in a large factory. I strive to get to know as many as I can by name. Then I try to greet them by name or at least wave to them often. When I can, I try to learn about them and their interests and encourage them. I also share in their joys and seek to sympathize with their struggles. NO, I don't get to know everyone deeply, but I have gotten to know a few workers and I share the Gospel at times with them.

This is so different than I used to be. I was shy. I was pessimistic (I still fight it). I am a deep thinker and that can often come across as serious and not joyful. God is working in me and giving me joy. He is able to change my weaknesses.
 
cabsmom40 said:
Actressdancer,

I don't know if the song if wrong theologically, that line and one other makes me feel uncomfortable. It may be just me. I don't think it is wrong to question things though. I have to be careful where and to whom I question things, because I could be wrong. So please don't think I am always finding fault with songs, etc. I listen to a lot of contemporary Christian music and if I personally don't like the song-I know it is usually just a matter of taste (a lot of times it has nothing to do with the words, just the music or the singer's voice).
Click to expand...

I don't think it's wrong to questions things either. Believe me, I can be the queen of righteous indignation, at times. lol. Honestly, most of what I just wrote was in response to Steve's question and not your story.
 
Actressdancer said:
As to the song...


I'll be blunt. I'm sick to death of people raging against modern Christian music (as a whole). Yes, there are artists who sing ambiguous lyrics. But they are NOT the majority. As to the similar musicality: If Christians really are filled with the all-powerful Holy Spirit, our music will be more cutting edge than the world's! We have the ultimate "muse"!

I've worked one-on-one with fantastic musicians like Mac Powell and Dan Haseltine and Mark Hall (of Third Day, Jars of Clay, and Casting Crowns, respectively). These are Godly men writing/performing Holy Spirit-inspired tunes for the betterment of their Christian family. To question their music because it's not old-school Southern Gospel or an "ancient" hymn is to question their very calling from the Lord, Himself!

Sometimes they mess up and a song isn't exactly what it should be. But they are human. They are not writing Scripture, they are giving their talents to the Lord. Can you tell me honestly that you've never made a mistake or misrepresented Him in your own work?!

Sorry to get on a soap-box about this, but it's a huge pet-peeve of mine. I don't want a watered-down Gospel. I don't want baby food theology. I want in-your-face, grow & convict teaching that results in real change in my life. And I can't tell you how many times in the last few years that came straight from the very music that too many Christians condemn.
Click to expand...
I am right there with you girl.

I love contemporary songs that speak more to me than other types that are merely toe tapping.

I also LOVE old hymns. They can all speak volumes.

At some point all the OLD hymns were NEW songs. And I am sure that someone said..."this modern music...ugh..." :)
 
fairfarmhand said:
At some point all the OLD hymns were NEW songs. And I am sure that someone said..."this modern music...ugh..." :)
Click to expand...

Hahahahahaha!

I had a.. err... "conversation" with someone online last month about modern Christian music. He said that one of his biggest issues with modern music is that it talks about "me" and "I" when it should only talk about "You" (meaning sung directly to God, about God). He said that songs that have the word "me" or "I" are automatically stuck into his "not worship" pile.

I said, "So I guess even Amazing Grace isn't good enough for you. You know... 'I once was lost but now I'm found.'" He said, "oh, no, that one's fine, but the rest are way off base." :roll: Some people just look for a reason to nit-pick.
 
Actressdancer said:
Hahahahahaha!

I had a.. err... "conversation" with someone online last month about modern Christian music. He said that one of his biggest issues with modern music is that it talks about "me" and "I" when it should only talk about "You" (meaning sung directly to God, about God). He said that songs that have the word "me" or "I" are automatically stuck into his "not worship" pile.

I said, "So I guess even Amazing Grace isn't good enough for you. You know... 'I once was lost but now I'm found.'" He said, "oh, no, that one's fine, but the rest are way off base." :roll: Some people just look for a reason to nit-pick.
Click to expand...

hmmm....

When I survey the wondrous cross...
Victory in Jesus
Come thou Fount
My Faith has found a resting place
It is well with my soul
Blessed Assurance
A mighty fortress is our God

Really good songs there...

And don't even get me started on those "patriotic" services at many churches. The majority of the service is spent on pledges, American songs....

And Christmas can sometimes be just as bad.....
BTW, have you heard Glorious Day by Casting Crowns?

LOVE IT!

(old words, new music)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top