What do you think of breastfeeding in the church nursery?

[Ava Rose]

Okay, I love my church...I love the people at my church. However, I do have problems that I have been open about before. No church is perfect and from what I could tell, some were worse than my own...so I stay until the Lord moves me.

Here is the latest:

We are revamping the nursery/toddler area. We are getting a new look, feel and curriculum and program. All of that is great. It sounds like it would be wonderful and I am excited to be a part of it.

During a meeting of parents and kids ministry workers about all the changes my pastor make some remarks that will not sit well with many moms.

Okay...we have an area in the nursery that is not closed off completely but enough for moms to go back and nurse. Every mom I know, including myself, have used that area quite a bit during the time we had little babies. There is a tv back there with the sermon on. Now, the nursery workers often have the tv off because the tv is on the nursery side but can be viewed from the side moms breastfeed. Small area.

Alright...well my pastor says this and I am trying to quote (as emabarressed as I am because I know this is nuts and I do have some respect for the man) but I may miss what he said exactly:

""I know the issue of breastfeeding is a sensitive one and I know I am a man. But I am a man to a wife who breastfed. Just understand that the Word of God is a sensitive subject with me, ok? The Word of God is a sensitive subject.""

Okay..let's get to the gist because that's all I can remember for sure. He went on to add that women would make arrangements for breastfed babies if they were involved in a wedding or a night out or an important event. He then said that nothing is more important than church. He said that parents who are not on the nursery schedule are not allowed to stay back in the nursery. They are not allowed to walk the halls with their children. They can either put their child in the nursery or in service. That was it. Yes, we will be called if our child cries. However, we are to drop off our child and get to service...period. He claimed that there are legal issues with having someone back there who is not a worker with the children. I don't get that...nor do I believe that is the proper interpretation of any law but I could be wrong. The church is liable even if a worker is back there when something happens.

He never said a woman was NOT allowed to breastfeed at our church. However, he just made it impossible unless you breastfeed in the sanctuary during the sermon. lol. I sure hope someone does, too!

I also think that relating a sensitivity to nursing with a sensitivity to the Word of God is making it seem as if a woman is backslidden if she gets up from the sermon to go take care of her child. If you didn't get that from what i typed....believe me you would have from what he said. He is like me...ya know when am all convicted about something and make a point...lol...think of Ava Rose when she is on a rampage trying to prove a point...that's my pastor..LOL.

Now this does not simply affect nursing moms, which by the way we have four pregnant women right now, it affects any mom who has a child having problems. We are NOT supposed to be in the nursery or toddler area if we are not workers. I had to be back there many times because my baby was not adjusting well. The workers don't want to be with a screaming child. So, if my 14 month old is fussy....what are my options? I guess I should leave because I cannot walk the halls nor can I be back in the nursery.

I worked in the nursery the Sunday after this and we had to call a dad. He agreed with the other worker and I....and he didn't leave his crying baby.

I am basically confused. I know people are not happy. I also know moms will still take care of their babies. What is he going to do? Talk to them about not feeding a hungry baby? I don't think he though this through. Before you ask...his wife NEVER breastfed in church...she always supplemented but she never solely breastfed or breastfed for long.

The whole thing is just nuts. I think he is being unreasonable. I get this is trying to prevent the nursery from becomming a women's club or somethign like that. However, we have under 200 people at my church. I was back in the nursery alot due to working back there and having a fussy baby. I only know of a few of us that were back there alot when not working. He could have been talking to us but then why tell everyone. Believe me, he is not shy. lol.

So...do you think he is unreasonable? I am guessing everyone will....but maybe I am wrong. I know a few women are not happy.

So, I have a baby who just got over a cold and seems to have an ear infection. She is hardly staying back there as it is...so what do I do? Do I miss church again...or just wait for them to call me and then leave? Or defy the rules and stay?

I don't think he thought this through.

 

[Cornish Steve]

While a man, I would like to comment on this - because my wife has helped organise the nursery at our church for some time. We have a very strict rule about no men allowed in the nursery. It consists of two rooms: The first is the one moms and children enter; from that room moms can walk to a second room where they can breastfeed (and there's a one-way window so they can see and hear the service).

As I compare your story to what happens for us, can the church simply institute a "no men" rule for the nursery? A sign with a red bar over a picture of a man might be a light-hearted but clear indication of the policy. To ask women to stop breast-feeding is IMHO rather outrageous.

PS - If the pastor has a problem with that, then maybe someone should point out the NT passages that make it clear that men and women always sat separately when meeting for worship.

 

[chicamarun]

Ok - at my church kids are with the parents in Mass. Parents will leave with a fussy child, walk the halls, breast-feed etc.

I think the way you all have it set up is AWESOME for your church. I do think he is wrong. From what I know of God, he put the raising of our children first and foremost. You have a way to watch the sermon from the back..... and I doubt women are "skipping" church just to watch TV in the back room.... that's just silly.

 

[Ava Rose]

Exactly Dana...no women are deciding to plan breastfeeding to miss the service! LOL.


Steve...a no men policy would not work. He does not want women back there breastfeeding because it causes them to leave the service and go to the nursery. He also does not want people back there who are not workers. So that leaves women to breastfeed in the service...which they won't...or in their cars...or go home. Oh and I am so happy you responded!

I don't think anyone will listen to this. It is not practical. I just hate the idea that my pastor is being unreasonable and suggesting that women who take care of their kids during service are doing something unspritiual. I also hate the idea that I would be breaking rules if I am back there with Kara. She is not breastfeeding anymore but she hates being back there.

I guess he will just have to let women breastfeed. Some babies are only breastfeed...mine were. Should my babies be left hungry? Should I just miss church until my baby can eat solids? This was not well thought out. I am glad I am not a breastfeeding mom at my church. We will have many soon and they are not the kind of women to take this sitting down...so hopefully we can call come to a compromise.

 

[Brooke]

So many issues in this. Wow.

"...if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." ~ Phil. 4:8b Thought I better start out with the good of what your pastor is trying to accomplish. There are some real concerns nowadays with doing background checks on all people who are in the nursery with children. That being said, you could just have the church have those background checks on file for anyone who might EVER go into that room. Poof! You're church is covered.

I won't ramble on about the obvious misconception that caring for your child in the way you see fit is taking away from the assembling of yourselves together....what about this quote from Jesus? Lu 14:5 "And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?" Of course you should take care of your child no matter the day or hour. We are also told we have so much more value than even the sparrows that God watches over. He feeds them on the sabbath. I think I'd be praying about/for you pastor and the probable other issues he has with prioritizing his sermons.

Well, Ava Rose, if it is any consolation, I nursed both of my children in the sanctuary. They were soley breastfed for a loooooooong time. I managed to do it discreetly and never had anyone notice, other than a few breastfeeding moms who soon followed suit.

 

[Smiling Dawn]

Interesting, for certain. The only thing that I can come up with is that there are too many parents hanging out in the nursery when they should be in Sunday School or in Church. Or maybe there is someone attending church with a questionable record ( meaning with the law) where children are concerned.

Keep an open heart. Pray for specifics, Ava Rose. God moves the heart of the King where He wishes, he can move the hearts of your pastor and others in charge, too.

((((hugs)))

 

[Actressdancer]

:evil:

As you might guess I take issue with ANY limitation on breastfeeding. Fortunately for you, Ava, something that needs to be brought up to your pastor is the law does, too. Every state has laws in place protecting the rights of a breastfeeding mother to feed her child on demand.

He also obviously didn't think through the comment about making provisions for a night out or a wedding. Truth is, when my babies were nursing, I didn't go anywhere without them. Now that I'm planning to with this baby (class one night a week), I'm realizing a lot of things about the provisions that need to be made. So if he really wants moms to make those provisions, then he needs to allow them access to the kitchen area keep their milk in the fridge. Then either mom or nursery worker will also need to be able to heat it on the stove (microwaves destroy breastmilk, making it completely lack nutritional value). That is a lot more time out of service than simply running to the back to nurse for a short time.

I always kept my newborn nurslings in service with me, nursing right there in my seat. I nursed discretely, but I know that just having a baby in service creates a distraction to mom, dad, and everyone sitting in their line of sight. Babies get fussy. Babies make baby noises (cute and not-so-cute). Babies need diaper changes at a moment's notice. Babies spit up and need a change of clothes. To say that mom can't excuse herself from service to care for her infant is not only unfair to mom, but also to everyone else in service. Because if she has to do all that in her seat, there's going to be huge distractions all through service.

Possible solutions:

1. Have every parent keep thier nursery age child in service the entire time once or twice. DO NOT leave the room for any reason. Let them disrupt, scream, squirm. Change diapers, nurse, whatever. The pastor will see how unreasonable that option is.

2. Have the parents who object sign a petition. If your church is like most, the pastor does not have the final say in such issues: a board of some sort does. Usually those board members are elected. If they know the people they represent do not agree, they may keep the pastor in check.

3. Whatever interview/background check process that is gone through by all nursery workers could be gone through by any mom who might need to sit back there to nurse. As another poster said, that would eliminate the legal ramifications.

4. Call for a meeting with other upset parents and your pastor. This should not be a gripe session. Each of you should have notes on exactly why you take issue with this. Site scriptures like Luke 14:5. Don't attack him, just see if he's open to other views.

That's all I can think of for now..... Other moms might have more ideas.

Off topic- Steve, I actually am kind of offended by the whole 'no men' in the nursery rule. There are two men who work in our church nursery and one of them is my husband. He was clearly called by the Lord to volunteer. He was thankful that the Lord chose the nursery for him, as he struggles to communicate with older kids, simply adores babies/toddlers, and really wanted to serve somewhere. He went through the criminal background screening and the interview process. He's been a nursery worker for more than four years and still loves it. No one else has been in there as long as he has.

 

[Ava Rose]

Yeah, Brooke and Smiling Dawn, you bring up good points and points I have not considered before. I didn't notice a ton of parents hanging out...but now that I think of it...before Sunday School it was a parent hang out and often many were late to Sunday School. It kinda surprised me as well. Also...there is a lady who is perfectly sweet but terrible with kids...just not trustworthy in the sense that she doesn't wash her hands...she gets easily frustrated...nothing crimminal. But she has grandkids back there and would go back there a lot. No one really thinks she is equipped to being in the nursery...and she would be the first to stay back there to help. Nice lady..servant's heart...but not the lady you need in a nursery.

Like I said, I am no longer nursing so that part does not affect me. I used to nurse discreetly in the Sunday School room though..so wouldn't miss anything and no one cared. but I am concerned if my baby is having a bad day..what do moms do? My pastor is not completely unreasonable. lol. He may just have cause that he is not revealing. Afterall, in a small church you can't air out dirty laundry even without names because names are not needed to figure out the who that is involved.

Thanks!

 

[Ava Rose]

Oh..I never supplemented just because of a wedding or event. So, that didn't apply to me, either Amie.

The church is small enough that we know all the nursery workers. Although I do not object to background checks.

I think my pastor is trying to solve a problem the wrong way. There will be fallout. I was just wondering if he had a point I was missing.

 

[Embassy]

Okay, I love my church...I love the people at my church. However, I do have problems that I have been open about before. No church is perfect and from what I could tell, some were worse than my own...so I stay until the Lord moves me.

Here is the latest:

We are revamping the nursery/toddler area. We are getting a new look, feel and curriculum and program. All of that is great. It sounds like it would be wonderful and I am excited to be a part of it.

During a meeting of parents and kids ministry workers about all the changes my pastor make some remarks that will not sit well with many moms.

Okay...we have an area in the nursery that is not closed off completely but enough for moms to go back and nurse. Every mom I know, including myself, have used that area quite a bit during the time we had little babies. There is a tv back there with the sermon on. Now, the nursery workers often have the tv off because the tv is on the nursery side but can be viewed from the side moms breastfeed. Small area.

Alright...well my pastor says this and I am trying to quote (as emabarressed as I am because I know this is nuts and I do have some respect for the man) but I may miss what he said exactly:

""I know the issue of breastfeeding is a sensitive one and I know I am a man. But I am a man to a wife who breastfed. Just understand that the Word of God is a sensitive subject with me, ok? The Word of God is a sensitive subject.""

Okay..let's get to the gist because that's all I can remember for sure. He went on to add that women would make arrangements for breastfed babies if they were involved in a wedding or a night out or an important event. He then said that nothing is more important than church. He said that parents who are not on the nursery schedule are not allowed to stay back in the nursery. They are not allowed to walk the halls with their children. They can either put their child in the nursery or in service. That was it. Yes, we will be called if our child cries. However, we are to drop off our child and get to service...period. He claimed that there are legal issues with having someone back there who is not a worker with the children. I don't get that...nor do I believe that is the proper interpretation of any law but I could be wrong. The church is liable even if a worker is back there when something happens.

He never said a woman was NOT allowed to breastfeed at our church. However, he just made it impossible unless you breastfeed in the sanctuary during the sermon. lol. I sure hope someone does, too!

I also think that relating a sensitivity to nursing with a sensitivity to the Word of God is making it seem as if a woman is backslidden if she gets up from the sermon to go take care of her child. If you didn't get that from what i typed....believe me you would have from what he said. He is like me...ya know when am all convicted about something and make a point...lol...think of Ava Rose when she is on a rampage trying to prove a point...that's my pastor..LOL.

Now this does not simply affect nursing moms, which by the way we have four pregnant women right now, it affects any mom who has a child having problems. We are NOT supposed to be in the nursery or toddler area if we are not workers. I had to be back there many times because my baby was not adjusting well. The workers don't want to be with a screaming child. So, if my 14 month old is fussy....what are my options? I guess I should leave because I cannot walk the halls nor can I be back in the nursery.

I worked in the nursery the Sunday after this and we had to call a dad. He agreed with the other worker and I....and he didn't leave his crying baby.

I am basically confused. I know people are not happy. I also know moms will still take care of their babies. What is he going to do? Talk to them about not feeding a hungry baby? I don't think he though this through. Before you ask...his wife NEVER breastfed in church...she always supplemented but she never solely breastfed or breastfed for long.

The whole thing is just nuts. I think he is being unreasonable. I get this is trying to prevent the nursery from becomming a women's club or somethign like that. However, we have under 200 people at my church. I was back in the nursery alot due to working back there and having a fussy baby. I only know of a few of us that were back there alot when not working. He could have been talking to us but then why tell everyone. Believe me, he is not shy. lol.

So...do you think he is unreasonable? I am guessing everyone will....but maybe I am wrong. I know a few women are not happy.

So, I have a baby who just got over a cold and seems to have an ear infection. She is hardly staying back there as it is...so what do I do? Do I miss church again...or just wait for them to call me and then leave? Or defy the rules and stay?

I don't think he thought this through.

I would find a new church. That church would totally conflict with my method of parenting. I visited a church that required you to drop off your kids and leave. My kids needed me to either be there or give them a warm up time. So I brought them with me to the regular service. That would be the only way I would attend a church that denied access to a child's class. As for the breastfeeding it is in their best interest to provide a private area. As one who does not use bottles I would nurse in the service. I've done that on occasion, but I prefer not to. I don't suppose the pastor would like that.

I've visited churches that allow me to stay. I just can't have any interaction with children other than my own. I've had no problem with that. But I do have a problem with denying access to your child or the ability to see what your child is being taught.

The theology of connecting sensitivity to the Word of God with hearing his message is not okay in my book and is probably an even greater issue for me than the child issues. I would find another church.

 

[Cornish Steve]

Off topic- Steve, I actually am kind of offended by the whole 'no men' in the nursery rule.

No offense intended. In our church, it's proved to be an effective way of allowing nursing mothers to see and hear the service without being in any way a distraction - and I just wanted to pass along that experience. Personally, I agree with the "no man in the nursery" policy that we have and it works for us, but the situation is probably different in every church.

 

[Shelley]

I know our halls can get quickly clogged with parents who won't simply drop their children and go. That really does present numerous problems, and some of those are tied with safety.

That said, wouldn't a simple solution be to have another room apart from the nursery area where moms could go to nurse their children? Our church recently made a room that's at the back of our church into such an area for the moms to go to who didn't want to take their children to the nursery or who might need to feed them during church. They could hear just fine through the door, and were afforded the privacy they needed. Plus, it was apart from the nursery/preschool area which we really wanted to keep free of people.

It seems such a compromise would be a win-win situation for everyone involved. Parents could tend to their child who is in whatever need, and the nursery area could still be free of parents who might want to stay and 'set up shop,' so to speak.

Oh, and are your parents all required to work in the nursery? I'm thinking part of the legal issue could be tied with insurance. Our insurance requires that anyone who is back with the children must have undergone background checks. A parent who goes back there and stays for a substantive time could be seen as a worker during that time and, therefore, could present a problem for the church in its liability. ---- That's just speculation on my part.

 

[Actressdancer]

It seems such a compromise would be a win-win situation for everyone involved. Parents could tend to their child who is in whatever need, and the nursery area could still be free of parents who might want to stay and 'set up shop,' so to speak.

The more I think about this, the more I think the bigger issue is that the pastor seems to feel that anyone who steps out of the service to care for their child has misplaced priorities.

I think, if it were me, I'd be finding a new church. I think if my pastor ever thought his sermon was more important than the needs of my children, that pastor wouldn't be one I'd want to sit under.

Of course, I recognize that I don't know the details of the whole story, but his comments that were shared do bother me.

 

[MonkeyMamma]

I'd find a new church.

He is wrong and way way off base with this.

I also would have a problem with no men allowed in the nursery. I have male friends who work in the nursery and in the children's ministry and I find that offensive.

 

[Lee]

I would not leave the church because of this. But if I truly had a problem with it I would approach the pastor and discuss it with him. I would ask him to prove it to me biblically why a mother can not provide for their infant child.

 

[Cornish Steve]

I also would have a problem with no men allowed in the nursery. I have male friends who work in the nursery and in the children's ministry and I find that offensive.

Maybe we're each using the term 'nursery' differently. For us, there are two rooms: a play area for toddlers until they turn three and a nursing area with cribs for the babies to sleep. Men are barred from both of these (within reason). Some new dads initially assume they can stay with their baby, but one of the women there always has a quiet word to them and they don't mind leaving. For older children, classes are mostly run by couples, so both a man and woman are present. Indeed, that's another principle we follow: at least two adults must be involved in each class (and, as I think about it, it's never been just two men).

Yes, we have to face the legal/insurance issue too, and keeping the number of people in the nursery to a minimum does help with that. In addition, we always have someone seated where they can spot who goes in and out of each bathroom, for example. It's sad we live in a world where such a thing is necessary, but experience has revealed that it must be done.

Again, I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone by mentioning the policy at our church - just wanted to share a practice that has worked well for us. Through the years, no men have been upset, and nursing moms feel more at ease.

 

[MonkeyMamma]

Oh Steve you didn't offend me! I just find that offensive to men in general. But hey if it works for your church that's ok.

 

[Actressdancer]

Oh Steve you didn't offend me! I just find that offensive to men in general. But hey if it works for your church that's ok.

I agree with the way MonkeyMamma said this. You didn't offend me, Steve, I was offended in general.

I guess I figure if they pass the screening, it doesn't matter what gender a person is if they have a heart for service and a call to a particular ministry.

Oh, and I guess I'm the type of nursing mom who doesn't care if her 80 year old grandfather is in the room... if baby is hungry, baby nurses. lol. I know I'm just as covered as I would be if I wasn't nursing, so I don't care who sees me.

 

[Jackie]

We also have a Two Leader Rule at our church. I think it's very wise, not only to protect our children, but also to protect the workers from unwarranted accusations.

Having said that, I cannot imagine this an issue in a small church. My friend attends a huge megachurch, and there are lots of rules there out of necessity. They actually have a security guard sitting at the entrance to the children's wing!

If you are there for any length of time, the baby isn't going to wait. If it's such an issue for him, why doesn't he set up a "cry room" right off the sanctuary that has the sermon piped in?

I know you've had trouble with him over other issues, Ava. How does your husband feel about this? I'm bothered by the fact he feels a woman nursing her baby in out of line. I also know several men who are excellent nursery workers. I don't think it's appropriate to not permit them to serve there if they wish!

 

[Cornish Steve]

I cannot imagine this an issue in a small church.

You'd be surprised, Jackie. We had two incidents many years ago that shocked everyone. Two males from the least expected family were found to have abused young children in the church - I mean in the church building. Since then, we've been very very careful - and had to be so. It may not seem fair to condemn all the men in the world, but as a matter of practicality the most heinous abuses of young children are usually performed by men. I wish it wasn't the case, but it's true. If it means I'm discriminated against because of my gender, so be it. The importance of the church and the gospel are, to me, far more important than my personal 'rights'.

And, by the way, we had to have men posted at a couple of doors recently (I was one of them). It's better to play it safe in such circumstances.

Anyway, I'm taking us down a bunny trail - sorry.