Why kids hate school
- Thread starter Actressdancer
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Mouseketeer67
New Member
He has some valid points.
martablack
New Member
I actually agree with many of his points.
JosieB
Active Member
I have to respectfully disagree that "no learning is pointless." Let me explain that though....
Any knowledge you acquire is a good thing, even if it is(or does seem) pointless. I do value education. I do realize it is a privilege that many people are not afforded. I do realize I am very blessed to be raising my children in a place in the world where it is offered to us. BUT...forcing kids to learn things they won't ever use again again just for the sake of saying they learned it is silly and a waste of time.
Like the examples used in the article, it really is silly that most students graduate with a required 'economics' class but will walk out into the world with that diploma knowing nothing about how to manage their personal finances. (statistics on the average American's personal debt prove this statement)
Not once in my life (outside of a classroom) have I ever needed to know or even refer to the periodic table. In fact, I think it's quite safe to say my life would be no worse if I didn't even know there was such a thing as a periodic table of elements.
The thing is, our educational system could teach the students useful knowledge. But they don't. Instead it forces them to 'learn' (aka memorize for the test) things they don't care about and really will never use again, then when they question why they need to learn it we tell them 'because I said so' and we steal their natural love of learning that every human is born with.
I know it's less common nowadays than in the past, but some people do still have to work to support their families at young ages, some people do have to quit school to do so.
Not everyone is college bound. (and that's okay) But the current educational system in our country is geared toward white, upper-middle class college bound students and in the way it is structured, does a grave disservice to those less fortunate (aka not white, not rich, not college bound) by not teaching them more basic, useful things. But, it might just be that our current education system was designed to do just that...
Yes, knowledge is a good thing. I don't view high school education in the same way, I guess. I don't think (most) educators are forcing kids to learn things in order to say that they learned it. I can see how that might seem pointless. Learning builds upon itself. Even if you never "need" to know certain facts later in life, knowing those facts can lead to learning other things that you will use.
I think personal finances is an area best covered by parents, but I wouldn't have a problem with a required consumer education class for high school students. I don't think the answer is no classes about economics, but a class on personal finance. Both can be useful.
The periodic table contains things you use and see everyday. Knowing that it fits together like the table may not be essential for your chosen profession, but kids who are high school age may need such information for future science classes. I think high school is too young to close the door on future options or make future options more costly.
I think that is a separate issue. You can memorize for a test, but learn nothing. Do teachers really say things like "because I said so" though?
I don't think it matters. All residents deserve a great education. It shouldn't be toned down or changed because a person isn't able/doesn't want to go to college. Conversely, I think it is a grave disservice to give less of an education (or a more basic education) to those less fortunate.
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martablack
New Member
Back when I was in school (almost 20 years ago) we had classes for "college bound" kids and classes for "general education" but then this was Texas in the 1990's.
Today in Washington State (where I live) there are different "levels" of education for High School students. Level 1 is for just a diploma Level 2 is for communities college Level 3 is for "most universities" and Level 4 is for "upper Universities" the requirements are "VERY" different. To compare them is silly!
I was taught that in other countries that they do have a 2 tier system and that people who don't want to attend college have many other classes and options.
And I would LOVE to say that "parents" should teach children how to handle money but in today's society many "parents" are teaching children anything! That is my #1 goal is to teach my children basic living skills and to instill a love of learning. I want my kids to not be afraid to learn something new and to continue to learn their entire lives.
Yes. Different tracks were in my high school as well. These tracks were chosen by the student and the standard diploma track still required a bunch of math and science classes.
Lindina
Active Member
I graduated in 1969, back in the day where a kid could take either business classes (general math, business math, business English, typing I and II, bookkeeping/accounting, office practice, et al), or vocational classes (agriculture I, II, III, IV, welding, wood shop, industrial drawing, home ec I, II, III, IV and so on) and be fully prepared to graduate high school and go directly to work. OR you could take English I, II, III, IV, and Algebra I, II, Geometry, and do the whole college prep thing and be prepared to succeed in college (to us, college or university was the same thing in those days). There were also a few electives you could do like Band or Chorus which to me made high school tolerable. But there was only one diploma -- you either graduated or you didn't, there was no differentiation; you accumulated credits in "English" (didn't matter which English courses) or "Math" (didn't matter which math courses), science and history. In succeeding decades, they cancelled all those programs and insisted everyone had to take the same college prep track. Cut out everything that prepared you for a job. Everyone must take and pass Algebra. All this other ridiculous stuff, which has led to the current mess. They're sort of attempting to bring back some of that, but it may just be too little too late.
seekingmyLord
Active Member
As I have stated previously, I love math and tutored it even when I was still in school. I loved my algebra classes, but geometry not so much. Guess which one of those two I have used the most in my lifetime...yep, geometry, although what I used was from the middle school level. However, I did not learn anything about personal finance from school and that is something I do use every day. My daughter is learning it.
I think education is important but not just for the sake of "being educated." I also believe that I cannot possibly teach, let alone learn myself, everything so that there are no "gaps" in my daughter's education. At some point, she is going to gravitate to choosing to learn whatever she needs to do whatever she is going to do.
I believe that history is something you learn all your life and I am still trying to unlearn what I was taught about it because it was sterilized in secularism and much of it was misrepresented in other ways too. Studying other cultures is helpful and something that we continue to learn. Science is another thing about which we continue to learn all our lives and some of the things I was taught about it as fact actually where just the most excepted theories of the time and some have been shown to be false as our technology improves. We really cannot learn all the wonders of history or science or other cultures in a school or even a homeschool setting.
Basic maths, reading, grammar, spelling--the three R's are the most important. I used to think geography was highly important, but with the GPS and the Internet, not so much. American history, government, law, current events, and being involved in the community politically and voluntarily, I think are a must for high school because these teens will be voting on issues and candidate of which they should be able to understand the benefits and implications of their choices.
Languages, they are optional, although I personally feel that learning a language is very helpful to understanding our own, particularly Latin, but as to speaking a modern language...it just works better if it is necessary. Even though I say this my daughter and I are learning Latin, Greek, French, and some signing, and she wants to add Spanish too. However, if I was to choose between vocabulary and a language, I would personally go with vocabulary.
I think education is important but not just for the sake of "being educated." I also believe that I cannot possibly teach, let alone learn myself, everything so that there are no "gaps" in my daughter's education. At some point, she is going to gravitate to choosing to learn whatever she needs to do whatever she is going to do.
I believe that history is something you learn all your life and I am still trying to unlearn what I was taught about it because it was sterilized in secularism and much of it was misrepresented in other ways too. Studying other cultures is helpful and something that we continue to learn. Science is another thing about which we continue to learn all our lives and some of the things I was taught about it as fact actually where just the most excepted theories of the time and some have been shown to be false as our technology improves. We really cannot learn all the wonders of history or science or other cultures in a school or even a homeschool setting.
Basic maths, reading, grammar, spelling--the three R's are the most important. I used to think geography was highly important, but with the GPS and the Internet, not so much. American history, government, law, current events, and being involved in the community politically and voluntarily, I think are a must for high school because these teens will be voting on issues and candidate of which they should be able to understand the benefits and implications of their choices.
Languages, they are optional, although I personally feel that learning a language is very helpful to understanding our own, particularly Latin, but as to speaking a modern language...it just works better if it is necessary. Even though I say this my daughter and I are learning Latin, Greek, French, and some signing, and she wants to add Spanish too. However, if I was to choose between vocabulary and a language, I would personally go with vocabulary.
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Renae_C1
New Member
I agree with parts of the article. I do think that some of the things learned in high school is pointless, and will never be used. However, if students aren't being given a basic introduction to these subjects (which they can do in high school or in college) then they may not be introduced to a subject that they love. If we don't teach biology, then many students would never know that they have a special aptitude for it. I certainly wish that I had been given the option, though back when I was in high school. I definitely think that the high math courses that are required are useless, both for most high schoolers and for most college students. Most fields only use basic math, and those that use higher math should take it, but people like me who are just getting a basic degree should not have to take such difficult Algebra courses containing things that I will never need in the "real" world.
JosieB
Active Member
I agree all residents deserve a great education (but that's not something I feel public schools offer anyhow!)
But what is a great education for a single teenage mom living on food stamps and welfare is not the same as a great education for the son of a man who owns a billion dollar corporation and will never have to work a day in his life to support himself. It's just not. Political correctness be darned, the fact is rich people and poor people live differently and have very different problems and goals in life.
Just because someone isn't doing a college prep track it doesn't have to less of an education or a more basic education, just more relevant. A relevant, useful course is the better education. What's relevant to the majority of the student body will vary by school.
I grew up just out side of Atlanta. Big city. We didn't have Ag courses. I now live in the boonies-more cows than people. Every school around has some serious Ag courses and just about every student chooses to take at least one. Farming is a way of life here. I doubt it would be as popular had it been offered in my school outside of Atlanta.
I'm not saying take the CP courses out of poor school districts, I'm saying fewer kids in poor districts graduate, fewer are college bound. Let their education offering reflect their needs and reality, not the political correctness of 'everybody's the same' because the truth is everybody isn't the same. Offering classes these kids know aren't going to be relevant to them in the real world after graduation, many get frustrated and drop out. If more relevant classes were offered, maybe more would graduate and be able to do a bit better in life.
In a local school district in a poorer county near me they offer CNA classes to high school students. That student then graduates with an ACTUAL JOB SKILL! Instead of having to leave high school and pay thousands of dollars to take CNA classes or work for lower pay to train on the job they can get a job in any hospital, home health agency or nursing home straight out of high school. (not to mention they have acquired skills that can be very helpful in real life caring for parents or children and basic skills that will help if they decide to go to tech school or college for a medical based degree later on in life)
It isn't less of an education or more basic, it's simply more relevant to the students in that district that have many students that are simply not college bound because it's a poor county.
Every school should be relevant to its population. Don't most schools give a choice on electives on top of the basic requirements? The basic requirements should be the same for rich or poor. Whether or not a student chooses a college prep track is another issue. I don't think we should lower the basic requirements because some find those subjects pointless or a waste of time.
Actressdancer
New Member
The "basic requirements" ARE college prep! There is no other option.
Yes, there are sometimes a handful of electives, but the choices are pitiful and you only get 1 a semester (some schools, only 1 a year).
I don't think it is like that everywhere. I took a look at the requirements for the state I graduated from and they have 3 different options. http://www.fldoe.org/bii/studentpro/pdf/Grad1314.pdf
sweetsarahbeth
Member
This is a fascinating discussion. It's really made me consider the question of what the true goal of an education is or should be. Thanks for the food for thought.
"Learn what matters to you". That list knocked so many things off, what was left besides arts and literature? I guess he didn't rubbish astronomy.
We live in a complex world. I agree with the authors of Science Matters in that voting citizens (who also sit on juries) should have some basic understanding of science.
I see people's poor writing skills hamstring them in promotions. It is horrible to be a manager whose emails are forwarded to point out the screamers in them.
I meet people who are trapped in the world modern language, and don't have the foundations solid, and are victim to what they think they understand, i.e. they know enough to be outraged by a word, but not enough to put it in proper context or its actual correct definition.
And as a homeschooler, I'm sorry I was in the generation which got minimal grammar education. And algebra is logic. We need people who have had their minds sharpened with logic. Not only the whole world, but the US. We have a lot of nice land a more united, ambitious, and educated culture might want to usurp.
We live in a complex world. I agree with the authors of Science Matters in that voting citizens (who also sit on juries) should have some basic understanding of science.
I see people's poor writing skills hamstring them in promotions. It is horrible to be a manager whose emails are forwarded to point out the screamers in them.
I meet people who are trapped in the world modern language, and don't have the foundations solid, and are victim to what they think they understand, i.e. they know enough to be outraged by a word, but not enough to put it in proper context or its actual correct definition.
And as a homeschooler, I'm sorry I was in the generation which got minimal grammar education. And algebra is logic. We need people who have had their minds sharpened with logic. Not only the whole world, but the US. We have a lot of nice land a more united, ambitious, and educated culture might want to usurp.
This makes me shiver in fear. Please, PLEASE don't let an 18 year old CNA near me while I'm sick. Give me one with some life experiences and the sense that comes with age to most of us.