YES! I don't like it when hard lined atheists want to eradicate all references to people's beliefs. Not all atheists are like that though. I have had some very interesting conversations with some agnostics/atheists at my job. Not one of them has been rude about my beliefs. I even asked one if it bothered him when people said, "Merry Christmas", and he said that it didn't. We hear about the radical atheists and we think all of them are out to take away our freedom to worship and believe. I on the other hand have struggled with my faith and can understand how someone can sincerely have trouble believing. It is mean spirited to act as if a person is a horrible person just because they don't believe in God (or not yet).
While I believe that ALL atheists are not radicals nor out to directly take away our Christian rights, I do believe that many are attempting to remove God from everything. By doing this they are taking away my rights as a Christian. This is why we are seeing the rapid decay of morals and values as we see God being tossed out of the political window. It is also Biblical that the world is going to come against God and that the believer will be persecuted. While souls are being won for Christ daily, God's values and decress are on the decline in a very lost world because people ARE coming against Christianity so strongly. To answer your question, I guess it depends on what you mean by understanding. Should we be kind to them? Absolutely. Can we be great friends with atheists? Absolutely. In fact, my middle daughter is an atheist. So she says.:? Do we embrace any lifestyle they live even if it comes against Christ? Absolutely not. Jesus loved the sinner. He never accepted the sin. I had more to post but removed it because this is not under the restricted section and I do not feel like starting an uproar with trolls. Thank you for asking. You gave me an idea for my FB page. :love:
I think as with any group, you have some (what percentage? I don't know) that seek to destroy anyone's belief in any religion. I am just saying (like the issue of homosexuality) we should respect people and treat them kindly. Sure, if they are coming against us and looking for an argument- we can use discretion and walk away or change the subject. I happen to work in a place where there are a lot of unbelievers. I can think of 5 people I have witnessed to or somehow the conversation turned to faith and not one of them was disrespectful of me. On the other hand, at a different work place I started a conversation with a young man who I quickly found out just wanted to be argumentative. I ended that conversation.
I think we need to show those around us "lifestyle evangelism" -- live as Christians ought, in front of them, and maybe they'll come to want what we have. I believe it was St. Augustine who said, "Preach the Gospel whereever you go. If necessary, use words."
I'm really not sure that I believe in atheists and this is why: By definition, an atheist is someone "a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings". In order to disbelieve in that existence, they have to first believe that there is something out there to disbelieve in. I whole heartedly agree with Lindina in that we need to show God's love in our actions and in our words. Maybe by doing so, they will indeed come around.
My husband is Spiritual, but very shy to speak about it. He believes in God but he thinks the Bible is "far fetched", and once in awhile he'll tell me, "It's time to start prayin' about this" or "I prayed about this earlier" and I say ,"That's great! What did you hear?" or something else that's relevant I don't push it with him about religion, and he doesn't ask me about mine. He knows that I carry a pearl rosary in my purse, and that I pray during the day. He also knows that I have an app on my kindle that allows me to read the bible and have a daily devotional everyday. I honestly think that since we stopped having the church somewhat involved in schools and in homes things have deteriorated. Hardcore Athiests are the people, IMO, who are pushing the religion out of our lives and making it taboo to pray in school, and who makes it awkward when you see someone praying on the subway or clutching a rosary. I think that, now, when people see any form of practiced religion outside of a curch we automatically look around and go, "WHoa...is this supposed to be here, or are they supposed to be doing that?" I think there is definately a degree of unease. I also think on some level, IMO, these hardcore athiests are afraid to believe in the unknown and they have to attack people who have faith in something that others can't see. SHould we be understanding? NO. Should we treat them with every kindness? Yes. As another poster said : "Preach the Gospel whereever you go. If necessary, use words."
I have a situation with an atheist. It is my mother. She grew up in the church, went to Catholic school, we "sort-of" went to church until my parents divorce but only because that is what my grandmother wanted. All 4 of us children were baptized because again, that is what my grandmother wanted. After my parents divorced is when my mother claimed to be an atheist. I personally believe that she is a liar. Her reasoning is asinine. She said that she can not believe in a God that would let anyone suffer. She thinks that God "gives" people AIDS and then sits and laughs. She has a very dear friend that was "given" AIDS by the government. It is a very long and terrible story. Here is the short version. He is a hemophiliac and he needed a blood transfusion. So he went to get one and was given blood positive for HIV. Shortly after it came out that they knew that the blood was tainted and they did it anyway. Quoting from a memo used during the trail "These people will die before they get AIDS anyway" (They were all hemophiliacs). Any-who. He was awarded over $20 MILLION dollars because of that and he NEVER has to worry about medical care. This happened in like 1983 and he was able to provide care for his wife at the time and his daughter. She was able to go to any college and have things that most children wouldn't. I guess my point is that although he was given AIDS, he is still alive and cared for. I think that is a blessing. My mother thinks God is laughing. She thinks that he is beyond omnipotent which I don't get but whatever. She obviously believes in Him, she is just choosing to ignore Him and pretends He is not there. I guess I was giving her back story as to why I don't believe her. I think that she got really upset when she got divorced and instead of taking responsibility for her role in the crumby marriage, she choice to "become" an atheist. We visit her, I pray at her table, I tell her everything that God is doing in my life and I talk to her about Jesus. I loved when my DS told her that Jesus loved him and died for his sins so he could go to Heaven. She told him that was "WONDERFUL"! See...this is why I think she lies. I saw this on the internet and I read it to my mom! I think that it is very funny...lol ( I believe this is why we NEVER finish a day of work, I get sidetracked) Atheism The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. Makes perfect sense. Maybe is it wrong, but I will still continue to tell anyone and everyone I can about Jesus and how he saved me and that he WANTS to save them too. If I say it to my mother, I will say it to all!
I know people who are athiest and they have NEVER tried to take God out of my life or push their beliefs off on me. People have a right to believe what they want to believe. We may not understand why, but we can have mutual respect. Sometimes I question my own faith, if there is a God, why are people suffering? Did they not pray enough, hard enough or a certain way? I do believe there are things that are within "mans" control. I was looking for a job and a friend said, "pray". Well, I had been praying and the position was given to a family member, that was within man's power. So anyway, I respect others and their belief system. Its like, the Catholics, Baptist, etc. believe a certain way. Are they all right, all wrong? Or do we just accept people for who they are? I choose that! :love:
Here's one good reason for demonstrating the love of Christ to atheists. The story of Antony Flew, even though he didn't embrace the Christian gospel, is a real thorn in the side of atheists. He was one of their champions, and his well-publicized change of mind is legendary. Most atheists, sadly, have turned on him (even though he passed away several years ago) and trashed his reputation - attributing his new beliefs to an old man going crazy. Re the hard-line Dawkins disciples, I've spent much time over the last few years debating them, discussing with them at length, and trying to be patient. What bugs me is that most, like Dawkins, simply want to tear down, and are not willing to give an inch or really listen. So be it. We can shine the light, but we can't open eyes. The real problem (and I know many won't agree) is that we serve arguments to them on a plate: dismissing evolution, pushing Christian politics, evangelists making millions, let alone what they call "kiddie-fiddling priests"... They have a field day with these things, and justifiably so. We should be focusing on the person and work of Christ, his deity and his resurrection. Everything else is secondary and, when interacting with atheists, a total distraction.
Most atheists with whom I've debated do not fit this pattern. Like Richard Dawkins, they claim they cannot "not believe in God" because there is none. It would be like saying they don't believe in the tooth fairy or in Santa Claus. Indeed, Dawkins recently came out with a book ("The God who wasn't there") that claims Jesus never existed and is a complete invention. In his own words, Dawkins sees his mission as winning disciples, and he's winning over much of Europe. In recent years, a larger number of intellectuals are dismissing him (and there are several prominent Christian professors at Oxford and Cambridge). Sadly, most of his followers are readers of his books and the popular press - who are larger in number but mostly just quote Dawkins rather than have independent minds. One person I would recommend reading is John Lennox. His book "Gunning for God" is an excellent rebuttal of Dawkins' ideas. We must stay focused on the person of Christ. Often, I find that we invent arguments with others over trivialities. The new atheist movement is not trivial and it's not a game: We really must put aside those items on which 'Christian culture' dwells and focus on Christ's deity and resurrection. Our faith is all about a person, right?
I am curious how the atheists you know vote. I am assuming that most atheists have a pattern of voting liberally. I guess I personally have never met a conservative atheist. Who we vote for speaks volumes as to what we believe. Do they vote for the women's right to choose? Have they ever voted for politicians who come against Christians and parental rights? Do they vote for taxes that force believers to pay for abortions? Do they vote for anything that comes against the very creation of God? Homosexuality comes to mind. You see, people who do not believe in God have no sense of God's values. While they might be "good" people, if it comes against scripture, it lacks moral value. So yes, unless your friends are conservative atheists, I will assume they vote liberally. Intended or not, this is an act that comes against Christian rights. I may stand alone on this idea and this is alright. As I already shared, voting speaks volumes! A person doesn't have to be on the street corner or riding down Christians with pistols in hand to be coming against them. I find it is the quiet voters who do more damage than the noise makers because there are more of them. The noise makers get the attention but the majority of the silent speakers make the masses. Radicals! Phooey. They are only radical because they make a noise. As I already shared, my daughter claims to be an atheist. While she knows what we believe she is not hesitant to share that she votes for abortion and homosexual rights. When CA was trying to force churches to marry homosexuals, my loving daughter told us that she believes we have a right to be Christians, yet with the swipe of her pen she voted for the very thing that would force pastors to shut their doors because they refused to marry homosexuals. This is how our atheist friends and family indirectly come against Christianity. ... and I will restate that I do believe we can be friends with them and be loving to them. Just my opinion.
I find this to be true about authentic atheists. While I do not know if I actually believe there are many true atheists, this is the discription I believe a true atheist would follow.
How is this for who we vote into office? http://homeschoolspot.com/showthread.php?t=30138 As Meg shared, hand-in-hand. As I shared, who we vote for speaks volumes as to what we believe.
I find it difficult to understand how an atheist (who claims disbelief in God's existence) uses Jesus' name in a vain in a heart beat when they're upset... I'll never comprehend that
I never said they were my friends. I just think we need to be understanding of atheists. I have almost been there, done that myself. I also often struggle what exactly my beliefs are. Don't you think that there are many people who struggle with what is real and what isn't? Sure there are some who deliberately go against anyone of faith. I am just saying that there are some who don't deliberately go against people of faith. Also, there are Christians who vote liberally. There are Christians who don't object to abortion.
Without a doubt! Yes, I "understand" this. The enemy is great at bringing doubt to the existence of God. I agree that all atheists do not intentionally try to come against our Christian beliefs and rights. This is why I typed "indirectly" in my last post. We agree on that. Sadly, we also agree that there are Christians who vote liberally. While I do not have statistics to prove it, I do believe the numbers are few in comparison to those who vote conservatively. ...and sadly, there are many Christians who do not vote at all. Therefore compromising by there silence all together. Those who are rooted in the Word know God detests murder. He commands against it. I could never figure out how any person, ESPECIALLY a Christian can come against the very command of God that thou shall not kill. The Bible is clear that we are living souls because God knew us even in the womb. I can understand how an atheist might not agree, but a Christian. YIKES! I am more "understanding" if the idea comes from a new believer who has been in the world. But a Christian who has been in the Word, serving Christ faithfully, and who believes that God created all things... to me, that is something else. Either they do not believe the Bible is the Word or they pick and choose what they will believe. Again, I might be alone in this idea and I am alright with that. Thanks for the thought provoking thread!
Emma's #1 fan, I also don't understand how people can defend abortion. Actually I wouldn't call it defending it but trying to justify it. I don't think you can successfully defend something that is just plain wrong. You are also right that people who don't believe in God probably do tend to be more liberal. There are exceptions- conservative atheists (perhaps? I haven't surveyed, so I wouldn't know) and liberal Christians. I know I was talking to a co-worker just a couple of weeks ago. He wasn't raised in church and from what he told me, I don't even know if he has ever been to a church. He did question how God could send someone to hell if they have never heard the Gospel. He didn't say it with any anger or ugliness or sarcasm. I felt that he was asking a question that he sincerely didn't understand. Now, I did share the basic Gospel message (so I guess he can't say that he hasn't heard), but at work it is hard to have a lot of detailed conversations (sometimes any conversation at all). To be honest, I get tripped up in my own faith when I think about questions that non-believers have. I don't have any real good answers for them sometimes, and the answers that I read on-line or hear from pastors don't seem to address someone's concerns in a persuasive way. Sometimes in my head, I just tell myself that God has things worked out even if I can't understand it. For example, what good answer is there for someone wondering how a person who never had the opportunity to hear the Gospel is going to hell (through no fault of their own). In my mind, I just think that if Jesus loved the whole world enough to die for us, then He has this all worked out. I don't feel comfortable giving answers to these questions.
For the record, a sizable majority of Christians worldwide are liberal in their politics. The US is quite unusual in that regard. From the perspective of Britain, I can say that it's because Christians tend to be compassionate and seek to help the poor, the needy, and those who tend to be overlooked in a dog-eats-dog world. I fail to understand sometimes how Christians in the US can be quite so heartless and aggressive in their politics. Personally, I wonder why Christians are involved in politics in the first place.
Several of the early church fathers supported it. It's because they believed, before the era of modern medicine, that a fetus was 'quickened' only after the first trimester. Therefore, aborting a fetus during that time was acceptable. It's easy to think that everyone must believe that a fetus is a human with a soul, but that's a comparatively modern idea. When you look at verses carefully, there's nothing really in the Bible to say either way. Indeed, some verses support the idea that the spirit is melded with "bone and sinew" sometime during pregnancy. This is an emotive issue, and I don't mean to take the thread off track. It's just that this is an issue where right and wrong are just assumed, but it's not as clear cut as that. PS - A while ago, I pulled together most of the Bible verses that address the topic, and here's a blog entry that documents the rather surprising implications.
Politics has been around since Jesus walked on earth. After all, while I believe his crucifixion was God ordained, it was also political in nature. In that time period, religion and politics were heavily mixed. Christians HAVE to be involved in politics because politics is what gives and removes the rights of people to actively live there beliefs. We need to be involved in politics or be silenced. As you shared, America IS political. IF this is where we fight for our rights, then so be it. We win souls by loving, living by example as well as sharing the gospel. We defend our stance politically. Personally, I can't understand how a Christian does not get involved with defending Christianity politically yet complains about what is happening around them.
