So my son is 14 and is in 8th grade. He is a social butterfly to say the least. He has many friends and in the past year has discovered that the girls he saw as friends could be girl friends. So he has had a few "girl friends" but they never lasted more than a couple weeks and he never went on dates with them. Well now he has a girl friend and it is moving way faster than we ever expected. He met her through another friend and every time he went to the other friend's house this girl would too. We are just now figuring this out. Well he asked if she could come over and watch a movie with him in his room. We have a projector, so he thought he would project the movie and they would sit on his bed and watch it. We said she could come over, but they would have to watch it in the living room. They did, but it was a movie not appropriate for our 4 younger children, so even though we were checking on them, there were moments when they were alone. So there they are laying next to each other on the couch. After the movie i told them that they need to go outside. That was when I noticed the hicky on my sons next!!! Oh boy I flipped out! I sat the 2 of them down and told them both that that can not happen again. DS goes to a Catholic school he can't have that showing. Hickies (how do you spell this word?) are slutty and trashy. That they were both better than that. Hickies also were like putting a sticker on yourself that you are owned and this is wrong. Well you get the picture. It went on for a few minutes and I was not nice. I did end that i wanted to get to know her, but that the 2 of them had to be with other people at all times. Well ds has so unhappy when she left. He says I don't trust him, that I made her cry and that I ended his social life. Later we went into talk with ds. he was in the bathroom. dh looked on his computer and ds was chatting with girl friend. She said she was very upset and that I was a C**T. She went on to say some other things as well about me. We had to have another conversation with ds about the fact that a girl friend should not be calling your mother such awful words. All she is doing by using those words is confirming our opinion of her. Back ground: this girl is the youngest and has 2 much older sisters. My ds is our oldest in the family and so is setting the example for younger sibs. On the one hand: Well I feel awful and know I did not say the right things. I am afraid that i may have ruined our relationship. On the other hand: Dh and i agree that we are a lot more conservative then we ever thought. We think that girls are a distraction for ds and could lead to a bad place. He is such a great kid, we need to protect him. We don't think that the way they were touching and kissing each other is appropriate at this point. We need to set up better rules. So there it is. sorry it is so long.
I'm curious to see what other people have to say, as we will no doubt be facing these issues ourselves at some point. I'm mainly concerned that you've set things up so that your son feels it's necessary to defend this girl from you. That's likely to drive him away from you and closer to her. I'm also thinking that you can't really keep him away from girls, now that he's arrived at this place. At this point I'd be looking into damage control. I mean, hickeys are physically harmless and they heal. You can't be making that the one issue you completely freak out over - otherwise, what will you do if your son gets into serious trouble? Such as if he gets her pregnant? Or catches a sexually transmitted infection? What about if she breaks his heart? Is he capable of coping with betrayal? I don't know how much you've been talking to your son about sex, relationships, and the way men and women interact. I think it's a good thing that his first reaction was to want to protect her, even if it was from you. He sounds like he's got a good heart. But he's growing into a man, and he needs information about the risks that are ahead of him. I think you can protect him better by talking to him honestly and openly, and then trusting him to make good choices, than you can by trying to keep him away from girls. His hormonal drives are so strong right now, I'm worried that relying too much on strict rules to control him will just drive him to sneak around behind your back and lie. But as I said, I haven't faced this yet. So I'm very interested to know what other people say.
Oh my gosh. Let me just say I have a soon to be 14 year old dd that just last week got her first ever boyfriend. I am totally open with my dd about what is ok, what is not and what we expect and what will not be tollerated. A hickey would not be tollerated and if her boyfriend called me a C**T I would never allow her to see him again. Now my dd only sees this boy at school and they have texted and talked on the phone and she is very open to me about him. If she ever wanted to see him outside of school I must meet his parents first and they must always be supervised. If this situation happened to me I would have done what you did by speaking to them but then I also would have spoken to her parents. I try to teach my dd to always demand nothing but respect from a boy who likes her. However he must also respect her family. If he does not then he will not be allowed around her. No you can't keep him from girls but you can keep him from girls who obviously have no respect for your family. For them to have done enough messing around right on your couch for him to have a hickey think about what they might have done had they not been at your house. I see a girl who doesn't have too much respect for herself or for your family and your house. Just my two cents but that trash would not be allowed around my child.
Okay, I have to agree with MegCanada. If you make this the big issue that you freak out about, what will hapen when you find out that their having sex?? And a comment from MonkeyMama is that she wouldn't let that trash around her child. Ok, she might be trash, but if you freak out and never let him see her again that will only make their bond stronger. Believe me. It wasn't that long ago that I did the same thing, left my family one day w/o warning and ran away with my husband. He is still my husband, but we have been to counseling for some issues. HERE is what you need to speak to your son about: 1. Teach him about sex. Have his dad talk to him. Don't demonize it or make it sound like the spawn of satan. It's natural. You do it, and I do it, and most every body does. Instead, speak to him about sex preparedness. IE, certain criteria that they both must pass before they decide to do it. Graduate-take a sex ed class- go to relationship counseling- etc. 2. Teach him how to be a man. What it really means. Teach him that if he wants to have a successful relationship with this girl he needs to learn how to treat her like a man. Reiterate that being a "man" does not mean having sex with her. Being a man means exhibiting commitment, trust, honesty, loyalty, compassion, and strength of heart, mind, and soul. Being a man doesn't mean having sex on the first date or giving wach other hickies in the park (Which is trashy I sort of agree). Ask him to please focus on these factors if he wants to have a relationship with her. 3. Speak to her alone. I personally think that the word c**t is the worst word you could call a woman. HOWEVER, you said that she had two older sisters, so she could have gotten it from them. You also said you flew off the handle and spoke unkindly to them. Get her alone and apologize, and say that you know about the words she said. Say you would just like to clarify why you got so upset with them. Have her state her intentions with your DS. Tell her you would really like to get to know her and to be friends with her. Explain the rules of your house, and how you would prefer them to be followed. State your concerns to her, kindly without accusations. Giver her a talk about being a "real woman" (much like the "how to be a real man" speech) She is to demand nothing but respect from your DS, and to kindly correct him when she thinks he does something out of line. Sorry this is so long. I am totally speaking out of pure knowledge here. I wish someone would have said these things to MY DH and me. All I heard was the Usual "blah blah blah don't have sex" and I ignored it. They will too. Most kids do because they hear you talking at them, and not TO them. I was a good kid, I wasn't "trashy" either and it happened to me. The teenage mind is immature and they can't make the consequence connection quite yet. Just try to incorporate those things into a conversation with them. ALSO, I think the reason she called you those things was that you caught them by surprise, and they were embarassed. Some kids react very defensively out of embarassment. I hope this helps, and I realize it is long. I just wanted to state everything I had on my mind!
Well, I don't have a 14 year old so take what I say with a grain of salt. I would only allow a 14 year old to group date and not allow him to spend time with a girlfriend alone. Hickies aren't necessarily horrible either. I would probably allow him to continue seeing her in your home as long as he is with a group of friends. If she heard you saying or heard about you saying the hickies are slutty and trashy she may have interpreted that to mean that you thought she was slutty and trashy. I would view her name calling in that context.
Every child under the sun must have tried this line at some time or other. The answer is, "You're right - I don't trust you." As a child becomes an adult, trust is built up over time. As parents, we're responsible for our children; they are not mature enough to make consistently wise decisions. Also, if someone used extreme language to refer to my wife, you can be sure that person would not be welcome in our home. Plus, my children would not be allowed to meet with them until the matter was resolved. Choice of language and attitude after being chided says a lot about a person. Apologizing takes a lot more guts, and demonstrates a lot more maturity, than throwing toys out of the pram.
It's incredibly difficult to control who your teenager chooses to see and spend time with. I have a family member who was very strictly watched and never allowed alone with any boys, ever. Never mind curfews, she would be grounded for being even 10 minutes late getting home from school - in fact, she wasn't allowed to go to her own graduation because she stayed behind at school for 20 minutes on the last day to say goodbye to her teachers! Her parents were *incredibly* strict, even by 1950's standards. But this same woman - despite her parents vigilance and her own complete lack of knowledge about sex - still managed to accidentally lose her virginity at 17, in the woods behind her house, in the dark. It wasn't a good experience for her, especially since she had no idea what was going on until it was too late to do anything about it. I've told both my children that I want better for them. First times should be special, and planned, and with someone who's not going to hurt you.
As the mom of three teenagers, we have rather strict rules about boyfriends/girlfriends. First and foremost, when we moved into our house three years ago, we set the rule in place that no one of the opposite sex is allowed into one of our children's bedrooms unless it is a sibling. We do allow our dd and her bf into our son's room to play PS2 or the like, as long as our ds is in there, too. However, they are very rarely (and I do mean VERY rarely) up there. For the most part they are downstairs with us either watching TV, sitting on the patio, on the front porch in the swing, etc. Also, we wouldn't allow our children to go on a date until they turned 16. Before our our dd went on her first date, we talked with both him and her and were very open and frank with them both. He'd been coming to church for a while at that time and would usually come over on Sunday afternoon and hang out. We got to know him pretty well before their actual first date. They are both really good kids who love the Lord with their whole hearts, however, they're still red-blooded Americans...and temptation will always be there. We were able to talk with them about some do's and don'ts when it comes to dating, such as,"Have a plan in place and if you must divert from that plan, let us know what's going on; Don't have any time that you don't know what to do next...this will most certainly lead places that you shouldn't go." I do look at it this way, if they're at MY house, at least I know where they are and what they're doing. I wouldn't leave them alone for more than five minutes at the most, given the situation you've described.
No matter what is said I stand firmly behind the way I parent my child and my advice to the OP was based on that and nothing more. The majority of us here do not know each other personally so let's not start judging what the other would do. I am not some rigid frigid mom who never gives an inch but I am strict. I am strict because my parents were not and I was allowed to run around and do whatever whenever. My dd and I have a very open relationship and I thank God that she feels that she can talk to me about anything. I also thank God that because of the way I have parented her thus far she has loads of self respect and confidence, something at her age I did not have and I have been able to instill values and morals in her. I would never at her age allow her to spend time alone with a boy and there will be nothing but group dates in daylight while supervised by a responsible adult for a long time. She knows this, respects it and even approves of it herself. Once again I gave advice based on my parenting style and what I would do. I am well aware that there are kids who rebel and parents who are overly protective. Nobody else has to agree or parent the way I do. But it works for me.
This is exactly the way I feel and do things. My dd is not 16 yet and has not been nor will she be allowed on an actual date until that time.
Er... sorry if I made you feel judged. I was responding with a general warning about the practicality of thinking you can ever have total control of a teenager - or anyone over the age of nine, to be honest. So if things are working for you, great! Your response just reminded me of my relative's story, and I thought it was worth sharing. People sometimes go to extremes in their parenting (like I suppose your parents did) and I think it's important to find a balance. Probably the most important thing, no matter what rules you ultimately do or don't have, is keeping the lines of communication open, and not just talking to your kids, but listening to them, as well.
We're doing the courtship route. Our children will not date, at least not as long as they are at home. If they go off to college or when they move out, obviously we can't control that, nor should we try to. But anyone who talked disrespectfully like that would not be permitted in my home until there was an apology and a change of attitude! And I would hope that my children would not wish to be around someone so disrepectful. However, I also agree that you set them up by allowing them to have this "alone time". Obviously, they are not ready for that!
Yea.....what Jackie said. We also do courtship. There is no dating. By going the courtship route our children know what is expected of them and they aren't placed in situations that could lead them to inappropriate behavior. As for the disrespectful talk being directed at the Mom. I agree, the girl would not be welcome back in our home until there was an apology. Disrespect of any form is not tolerated in our home. Period.
Don't think we are going to allow boyfriends/girlfriends until they are actually old enough to date. And by dating, I mean well-planned, supervised group outings till they are at least 17 years old. There really is no point to having a boyfriend before that point. Since I have 3 girls ahead of my boy, the only thing I think it will lead to is DRAMA! By the way, have you and your husband sat him down and spelled out appropriate behavior? For instance, holding a girl's hand is ok. Making out is not? And the reasons for drawing those lines? It would make me really nervous that they had this happen RIGHT IN YOUR HOUSE. I would wonder what they would get into on a real date. This needs to be talked through with your son.
While I do think it depends on the child - some are way more mature than others, so setting a specific age seems rather arbitrary - I must say that I'm against allowing a child to create a close emotional attachment, only to learn how to break it later and pursue another. In effect, this is training a child how to break up from a future spouse.
I'm not sure dating and/or emotional attachments is in itself a cause of marital breakups. My husband dated many girls, was given complete freedom to run his own social life, and had his heart broken repeatedly. We lived together for two years before we married, because he wanted to be sure he wouldn't get burned again. And yet, our marriage is very solid - and getting better with every passing year! 15 years, and I'm looking forward to many more. My mother wasn't allowed to date, made the mistake of living with a man she'd met in University (her first taste of freedom), and when this was discovered was railroaded into marrying him that same weekend. Their marriage didn't even last 3 years, he ran off with her - former! - best friend, and she was left raising me by herself. My grandmother wasn't allowed to date, but somehow everyone (including her) thought she was pregnant, so she had to get married to the only boy she'd ever spent any time with. Except that meant her new husband couldn't go to college and there was massive resentment all around. Especially as she wasn't pregnant, after all. It was a miserable, wretched marriage, even if it didn't result in divorce. (He died.) My great-grandmother wasn't allowed to date, either. She married a "suitable" boy, chosen by her parents. Then her husband ran off and abandoned her, and she scandalized the town by insisting on a legal divorce. When I compare this to my mother-in-law and my father-in-law... My MIL ran away from home as a young teenager and took shelter in an ex-boyfriend's house. Eventually she got a job and supported herself. My FIL was older and had several previous relationships before meeting her. They lived together as an unmarried couple for years before finally eloping... Their relationship, up until my FIL died a few years ago, was rock solid. They were devoted to each other, and my MIL says she'll never have another man in her life. THESE are the people I want to pattern my married life after, not my own family. As far as I can tell, my own family is just one long series of cautionary tales.
For sure, I was generalizing, so thanks for pointing that out with real examples. Having said that, we have tried to encourage our children to take relationships seriously on the assumption they will last. We don't want them going into a situation with the presumption that it's just a temporary thing - because, observing some of our extended family, that can become a habit. Still, as you rightly point out, so many other things are important: character, background, faith, circumstances, and so on. As parents, we can become overly protective even as we view others as not being protective enough. We're all different and, as parents, we must do what we believe is right for our own. That might not be what outside observers expect, but so be it.
You're so right about the importance of taking relationships seriously! This is why our church views Sex Ed as so much more than just sex, and why we start teaching it in Grade 1. It's about interpersonal relationships, where we fit in society, how we view ourselves and others. Teaching children to treat other people with empathy, consideration and respect is a process that ideally starts the day they are born, and then flows naturally into their behavior with the opposite sex. I don't think any relationship - from work to friendship to marriage - should EVER be viewed as temporary. Relationships are too important to treat as disposable, even if they change over time.
I think the calling you a name would be the end all for me. That girl is not someone I would let my child around... ever. And no, you can't control who he sees at school, but you can make it clear that if he sees her outside of school, he will not be allowed out of your sight. No, you don't trust him. Because laying with a girl who gave him a hickey makes him untrustworthy.
