24 Hour Schools? Teachers Union Argues for it.

Angela, it scares the h**ll out of me too, that is why I am getting my pink jet fired up and cleaned up and getting my name out there. I can't do any worst then what we have now.

 

Hey guys.
Sorry this took so long, but me and technology... well...

Anyway,,..
Here is the video on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8Uoz0ee0Ys
Pay attention to what the "Democratic Stragist" Says to justify the reasons behind this...
They are the reasons that bother me.

It is based on those reasons that they will try to get more control later.

This just sets a dangerous precedent. And since our country is a country of law, and our laws are based on president (Many judges take into consideration what other judges have done in similar situations) then this IS a big deal, For me at least, when we consider who we choose to vote for.

Notice I did not mention candidates... I am not here to stump for either side. I am wanting people to be more active in their government. It is after all what we make of it, eh?

This goes to the local and state levels as well.

Anyway, you know me...
I post information.
Do with it what you will.

 

Count me in the scared crowd. Stuff like this really scares me, Obama REALLY scares me. I just hope and pray he dont win this election.

 

I'm fairly new here and going out on a limb but I have never been one to keep silent when I feel strongly about something.

Saying that politicians and policies that you don't agree with are "scary" is an alarmist reaction that continues to keep people at odds instead of celebrating everyone's right to make their own choice based on what is right for them as individuals. In this country we have the right to choose and when we can't choose we have the right to fight for our rights to get a choice. I choose to homeschool ds, however dd goes to ps. I have friends and family who are choosing a variety of schooling options for a variety of reasons. I don't think these schools in the OP are meant to be mandatory but an option for people. When we rally against people making choices we don't agree with we ultimately limit our own choices, so while I would never want this type of education for my dc I can see why it might be necessary in some areas where kids are being neglected and are basically raising themselves.

On a side note: I also think it is demeaning to the 6 million who lost their lives when people compare every government choice they don't agree with to Nazi Germany.

 

Welcome, Elphaba! Am glad you feel comfortable to jump in and state your opinion, especially when you're not sure how well received it is! I hope you will always feel welcome to disagree around here!

I don't think that ALL policies we (I) don't agree with are "scary". It's more the idea that they are the authority, and are in control. What may not NOW be mandatory could very well be one day. I am all for people making choices, even those I don't agree with. My concerns is that it will become like Germany NOW, where not having a government education is considered almost an abuse.

Nor do I consider it demeaning to those who lost their lives. The lesson to be learned is that we must be diligent against governmental abuses. This starts in small ways, perhaps with rules so simle as requiring bike helmets on children under 18 (for their safety) or laws against smoking (for public health). Both on the surface are very nice, friendly kind of things. But both also take away our right to make our own decisions. It's the principle of government taking on more than it has the right to take on. Slowly, it takes on more and more until we have given all our rights away.

 

(Welcome elphaba!!!)

Before I give my diatribe, I want to mention that I was raised on welfare by a single mother. But we hated it and did NOT want the government to tell us what to do. (He who pays the bills makes the rules, eh?)

Jackie, I have to agree with what you said.... No reason for full on ALARM, of course.... but....just like the little line in the sand....
Crossing this line is no big deal and anyone who protests, seems a bit over reactive...

If anyone saw the movie Demolition Man, with Sandra Bullock and . . . . . well, that's irrelevant . .. the point is, in the movie, anything deemed bad for you including salt, was illegal. Sometimes I feel we are headed that way.

For example..
People can freely choose to congregate in a bar. They also can freely choose to work in said bar. But the Government thinks that even though at every point of entry to said establishment is completely voluntary... somehow they must mandate that no one smokes.... Because it is BAD for you.

Over time, this legally could be a precedent for them not allowing us to eat greasy fries.... OH Wait! They have already done that. Restaurants Prepare for Big Switch: No Trans Fat

Now, take that precedent, and apply it to children.... each is a line in the sand between personal responsibility and government take over...

Why is the the job of schools to feed children?
The free and reduced lunch programs... of wich I once was a part of.. but only because it WAS THERE.... my mother readily handed me over to the state welfare office when she could not feed me, and fought to get me back, by getting a job and getting me back.....
Why are these parents who do not send their children to school with a bag lunch NOT arrested for child neglect?

But everyone rolls over like a dog and says, "Well they are helping kids."....
Uhm, WHERE are their parents?

The argiment the Democratic Stratigist gives in the posted video, bothers me, because if his arguments are sound.. then eventually, it could be argued that children should NOT come home, except on weekends, lest we family (Read: Unwashed Masses) undo all the teaching that has been done durring the week.

That is what my issue was. And I think it is great for discussion for sure.

Love to debate! Stick around, elphaba! We do not have to agree to be friends!

 

I dont mean to be offensive but I am at odds with Obama and what he stands for. I dont agree with it, probably never will and really hope he dont get elected because I think he will do a lot of damage to this country. As far as limiting peoples rights to choose, I think big government and government control (like Obama preaches) does a lot more to limit peoples right to choose than me fearing them doing it.

But what would I know? I am just a rural person, one of the unwashed masses. To quote Obama "they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." And you wonder why he scares me?

 

Hey, Jen! I use to be a House Mother at the Ohio School for the Deaf. Some of our kids lived in town, and came to school each day. Others came from out of town. Most of these only went home every OTHER weekend. There were two kinds of parents involved. Hearing parents (speaking generalizations here!) often felt frustrated that they couldn't communicate with their children, and felt their kids were "better off" at OSD. Deaf parents often grew up at a state residential school, so for them it was a way of life. I want to stress that the majority of parents honestly thought they were doing what was best for their children. Some were glad to dump the kid on someone else, but I think they were the exception.

 

I am so glad that this a place where we can agree to disagree! :love:

I agree that it SHOULD be a parents job to take care of their children but the sad truth is that some don't. I live in an extremely impoverished community and many people here are on welfare but they still have ultimate control of their kids. I do not believe (nor do most school administrators, teachers, or board members that I know) that it is a schools responsibility to raise a child. But I also know that some of the kids at the ps in my community are not eating when they are not in school and the school nurse is the closest they come to a doctor. Sometimes this is due to neglect, sometimes it is people doing the best they can.

As for why more parents are not held accountable for this, in my area its a matter of logistics. My friend who works for DFS has asked me where I suggest we take these children we believe are neglected; they barely have placements for kids who are in physical danger. I would also point out that wealthy people have been sending their kids to boarding schools, hiring nannies, and generally allowing others to raise their kids for a long time. I don't agree with them, I believe they are doing untold damage to their kids but I don't think they should be locked up for it. You want the right to choose if your child wears a helmet, eats trans fat, or if you can smoke in public. Everyone on these boards wants the right to educate their children as they see fit. I don't think an alternative education choice is a detriment to that right. I think that by accepting and honoring the choices offered to others we make it easier for us to keep our rights. I don't see making the offer of these schools as a line in the sand.

p.s. I have an Obama '08 bumper sticker and I think many of his ideas do not "sound bite" well so I always make sure to read things in their entirety and try to find out the true meaning behind these comments. I think the "clinging to religion and guns" was taken out of context and truly he was trying to help a group of very liberal minded people understand an opposing viewpoint... but that is just MHO on the topic... I DO NOT want to argue presidental debate with anyone as I get enough of that with my b-i-l who is career military. :lol:

 

Well, I agree that we have choice in schooling now.
But with my examples of the smoking ban and the transfat ban, I am trying to show that our government is on a slippery slop towards mandating that the government is the best nanny for children.
Granted, we may be a while off from such an extream, but....
A person from just 60 years ago would not recognize this country with all of the radical things that are now normal.

Does that makes sense?

Someone here could probably word it better than i

 

I think you worded your viewpoint very well and I absolutely do understand where you are coming from. I really see the transfat ban as more of a regulation of big business who was lying to the public by telling them that they were giving them something healthier than saturated fat in their mass produced productss. As for the smoking ban... it is an entirely different matter all together when your choice can give me cancer, that is no more of a personal choice than drinking behind the wheel, when you endanger other your don't get to make a choice. I have never understood why smokers rights hits such a nerve but no one is questioning the government's right to ban other drugs such as marijuana and heroin.

I absolutely understand and agree that we need to diligent about our rights being usurped by the government which is why I have actively protested the Patriot Act (talk about Orwellian vocabulary!). I don't give the government a free ride in what they mandate, however what they offer as a service to the poor and to those who can't defend themselves (ie: kids) is another matter. For example my state has a really great insurance program for kids, some free, some at discounted prices. No one has to use this insurance, but those who can't afford have the option. I see this alternative school in the same light. I have never been a big fan of the slippery slope argument; I prefer to look at the facts before me on a given topic as it arises.

I think in the end that we all agree that there is a line; we just don't necessarily agree about where the line is. I also wholeheartedly support anyone's right to fight for what they believe in and if you believe this is wrong then you should speak up to your congressman and have your voice be heard; thats what is so great about this country. I just wanted to offer another viewpoint on the matter.

 

I don't have a problem with programs that help the poor. But I believe it is not the GOVERNMENT'S job to do that. I understand about low-income people and their needs; the church I attend is in the inner-city. We have services on Saturday night, rather than Sunday morning, followed by a free dinner. People come smelling like campfire from the homeless camps. One mom with three children ages 5,4, and 3 just got a home, after six months in a shelter. I also know what is is to have children in school with serious physical needs. But I believe it's the responsibility of the PEOPLE, not government, to meet those needs. People helping people empowers; government helping people causes dependence. Why? People helping people can make judgement calls as to what they really NEED. Sometimes a person needs a helping hand, sometimes a swift kick in the rear. Can't do that when you're tied up in governmental regulations! Plus the government helping actually STOPS people from doing it. They tend to have this false sense that Uncle Sam is taking care of it. And how is it paid for? I really resent my money supporting programs that are unconstitutional to begin with, useless, abused.

I better stop before I get on a tirade! Don't know
WHO I'm going to vote for, but I KNOW I'll be voting NObama!!!

 

Jackie I could not agree with you more that it really should not be the government's responsibility to provide those social type programs. Looking back the New Deal was probably one of the worst things for this country. The problem with not having the government provide those services now is that in many places there is no sense of community. It is unfortunate that even in many Churches they just look to themselves and not to the community around them. People have lost the sense that it is up to them to help instead people just say lets get another government program going. I think we need to have more programs and outreaches from Churches or community groups who do not ask the government for funding.

The other thing is the breakdown of the family. People do not look at the family as the central unit any more. When the grandparents or mom and dad get old just put them in a home and come visit once in awhile. I am not saying that nursing homes or retirement homes are bad places and not necessary. Sometimes people have no children or are too ill to be cared for at home but many times these facilities are used because the kids can not be bothered and this is there way of "taking care" of their parents. It used to be that if the grandparents could not take care of themselves or had financial issues they would be welcomed into the home now it is just a burden. How many families out there are willing to take in their sibilings and there families if they loose their home or are suddenly unemployed? This was common in the depression. Not as much any more.

The idea that government is our caretaker is one of the reasons that dh and I have chosen to homeschool. We do not want dd to learn that the government will take care of her, she needs to do that or she knows that her family will be willing to help in an emergency. She also knows that family takes care of family. It is what we model for her.

 

I'm going to try very hard not to say too much about this....

When I was growing up, I remember my mother taking me out of school for special occasions. Sometimes she'd plan a surprise trip to the big shopping places in Ohio or something. Once she even called me out of school mid-day to arrive with bags packed and enough money to get us to and from the Libery Bell.

Those were golden moments when I was growing up. I learned a lot and always felt like my mother cared a lot about spending time with me and not just shipping me off to school. She usually timed them for moments where she felt I needed a break. They were not frequent nor did they ever interfere with my education. They were a part of my education.

Fast forward to two years ago. We hosted an exchange student from Germany. She absolutely couldn't wrap her mind around the fact that I could take her out of school to take the driver's test (our testing center is only open during school hours, so it was the only option). We planned it for a day when she had PE as her last class of the day and only took her out 30 minutes early. The whole time she just kept going on and on about how you practically have to be dying before her German schools would have let her go home. And mom and dad had no say whatsoever in it.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is what I fear.

Sure it's easy to say, "that will never happen here". But how can you be so sure? Already we're being told that it's none of our business if our daughters get BC as school. In some states, Missouri included, we're told that it's none of our business if the school transports our daughters over state lines to obtain an abortion.

The courst have repeatedly backed up the schools absolute rule in our daughters' reproductive health.

And really, aren't there sleeping habits far more basic of a need than birth control?

I also read rules from countless school districts that punish kids for what they do when they are not in school. Some are reasonable, others cross that line.

With a new mandatory preschool program underway in my city, I don't see an alarmist among us.

What I do see is a future where en loco parentis is a 24 hour right.

 

I can see that we have to agree to disagree. I still think individual policies are more important than looking at the slippery slope. The government is already taking care of its citizens in many ways that I'm sure most would deem acceptable. We have police and military programs without becoming a police state. We have had roads paved without the government telling us where we can and can't go. We have public libraries without the government telling us what we can and can't read. We have rating systems without the government telling us what we can and can't watch. I see these as ways in which the government "promotes the general welfare". As I stated before, if you feel that this is where the line is then you should, by all means, be active in stopping this school from becoming a reality. I however don't think this is the line. Homeschooling parents may not be able to comprehend the pressures of schools for kids to perform at a certain level. It is pressure from the parents of some kids in public schools that are pushing schools be held accountable. I think this is an example of how schools are responding to this pressure. Germany is not America, never has been. Yes, we do need to be vigilant that we don't give our rights away but public education has never been mandatory, we have come a long way in homeschool law. Universal preschool is being offered as an option. Most people are not aware but even kindergarten is still optional in most states, including Missouri. I just think if we really want a free society we have to leave open the options for people to choose things that we may not agree with. I think it is more frightening to think of options being denied to people because it is a slippery slope than of more being offered.

That's it for me, I'm out of this discussion because all sides have valid reasons for our opinions and we could go back and forth on this for days and never change anyone's mind. Thanks so much for the stimulating conversation and the food for thought!

 

Its almost that bad here already. Over the years, my OS who graduated from ps has had health problems from time to time where he misses days of school. He has asthma and when he gets a "cold" he gets sick, REALLY sick. He also has severe eczema which flairs up bad at times and it even has covered his whole face.

Well the school says he can only miss X amount of days and will treat you like a criminal if they miss more than that. What was I supposed to do? Send him to school when he cant breathe? Its OK if the school sends him home that day, but how dare I think I should keep him home.

Over the years I have went 15 rounds with that school over stupid stuff like that. I mean if the parents judgement about their own kids health isnt good enough then I think they overstep the rights of the parent.

I have even had one idiot school nurse try to tell me my son had some sort of infection when his eczema flaired up. My doctor thought she was nuts, and even asked me for her name. He told me I was doing everything right with his treatment. I have been treating his eczema for years, but the nurse thought she "knew" better than I did on how to care for my child.

Now imagine a school where they get some low paid quack doctor incharge of your kids health care via some goverment controled 24 hour a day school. I think I would move to Mexico before I would let the goverment take over care of my kids.

 

Uhm..
Most of us are former public schoolers who now homeschool our children. We do not live in a vacuum.

We are unable to comprehend the pressures of schools?
Really?

Are you really a homeschooler, because that point of view... to assume we cannot comprehend what public school is like, is a symptom of those who are ignorant of homeschooling from a personal experience standpoint.

Just a strange comment to make.

 

Nice story!
I am reminded of a story my pastor shared with us not to long ago. As a child he grew up back East. His grandparents raised him. His grandpa would drive him to the bus stop every morning and almost every morning they would drive away together, after the bus took off. He missed most of the school year. They would go fishing and to farmers markets. My pastor said that this wouldn't fly today. His grandparents probably would be arrested for neglect. But at the ripe age of 70, as he puts it, he is positive there was nothing the public school could have taught him that he didn't learn with his grandpa. That was one of the best years of his childhood. He made memories and learned more than the public school could have taught him. He learned a lot about living and people that year. He ended up having to repeat the grade and his grandma jumped out of her socks when she found out.LOL But he wouldn't change it for the world!
Thanks for sharing!

 

Em's doctor is so glad we homeschool for this very reason. She is asthmatic and gets very sick a few times a year. I am told to keep her home at least two or three weeks until her lungs heal while the doctor writes out a letter to the school. I always remind her that we homeschool. She smiles and says good because she knows that some schools give parents of asthmatics a hard time. She receives many calls from parents wanting her to write another letter to the school stating the child needs to be home until the lungs heal.

 

My son has gotten so bad that we have had to take him to the ER and they had to give him several breathing treatments, over several hours, just to get him to where he could go home for the night.

Then to have to get up the next day and fight the school (and for the next week) because he still isnt doing well and them treating us like we are trying to "pull something."

I am so glad he has now graduated. He hated that school so badly for the way they treated us. I felt like telling him to brush the dust off his feet during graduation. I wish I had known about HSing when he was little, it would have saved us so much greif.