Thought this article would be an interesting thread. Read on................. http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/pare...g-louder-no-screaming-babies-allowed-2388887/
I like this quote from the comments: I think restaurants should have the right to ask families with screaming children to leave. But I think that should be reserved for consistent issues. In other words, if my child has a melt-down, but I am dealing with it, give me a minute or two to deal with it. But if my child is having a melt-down and I'm not doing a dang thing to correct the situation, I don't deserve to have my child in public.
Most places I have been you can tell when the parent is not parenting and when they are parenting by trying to quiet the child. If they are just letting their kid(s) be a noisy nuisence then I think they should be asked to leave, otherwise let the parent try to quiet their child. If I can't console my child I take them out to the car and we sit and talk. We don't go back in until they are ready and if they don't ever become ready, then when everyone else is done we all leave.
As the mother of an Autistic child, I am offended by this. I can't always control my sons volume or his meltdowns. I do my best to avoid situations that may trigger a meltdown, but sometimes they can't be avoided. Discipline does not work with him, he doesn't understand it. If we are out and it's mealtime, we need to eat somewhere. This restaurant would never get my business.
I agree with the policy. If a child is screaming non-stop, then they should leave until they can be quiet. Part of eating out at a restaurant is paying for atmosphere. If I actually pay a babysitter to give me a night out with my husband, I don't want to listen to someone's child screaming and crying the entire time I'm there. I do think there should be a time limit put on the screaming to allow a parent to calm them down, though, especially if it's a toddler/infant. I took my kids out of stores and other places all the time if they started screaming. Other people just shouldn't have to listen to it. We'd wait in the parking lot until they'd calmed down, and then we'd finish whatever needed doing. To me, that's just good manners.
I agree with the policy, honestly if a child is screaming and a parent does nothing it's ruining my ability to enjoy the meal with my children. If my child has a fit I take them out of the dining room and deal with it, if they don't calm down well then we leave. I have no problems with parents who are actually trying to deal with their child's meltdowns, but I really get frustrated when parents allow their child to run all around the restaurant screaming and carrying on.
Even my oh-so-hyperactive son was never a screaming-meemie in a restaurant! DD used to get compliments from random people who passed by our table because even as a toddler she was so well-behaved they didn't even know she was there. It totally wrecks my meal if somebody's kid(s) scream(s) all through it. I can't stand it when kids are screaming at WalMart, either - especially if it's at a time in the evening when little guys should be home in bed!!! Now, I have tucked dgs under my arm and walked out of WalMart when he just wouldn't listen and insisted on running and making a ruckus.
I agree - we don't get to go out often at all and honestly a CONSTANTLY screaming kid ruins my evening. We had this at an all you can eat place at the beach - the parents completely ignored the kid who was running around and screaming. Our dinner was over $150 for our family (see why we don't go out much?) and it was supposed to be a special treat - but someone who didn't parent really made us finish our meal sooner than we wanted and we told management and they apologized but didn't do anything. My toddler did start screaming in a restaurant another night and I picked her up and removed her from the place until she could calm down..... I didn't think that everyone else had to listen to it.
Nikki0522, my brother has autism, so I kinda know what you are talking about. We were at a walmart one time (which is hardly a restaurant, but the story would stick either way)This was several years ago, and my brother had a total and complete meltdown in the middle of the store. I mean, threw himself down, kicking, screaming, rocking, banging, flapping...the whole 9 yards. It took me forever to calm him (my parents were at the other end of the store) and while I was doing this, an associate walked up to me and told me I had to take him out b/c he was upsetting the customers. And lemme tell ya, I'm a pretty nice, docile person to talk with, even when I'm being confronted, but if you EVER mess w/ my brother or what-have-you....prepare for whiplash. lol. So he tells me that my brother is upsetting the customers, we're taking up an aisle, we need to leave if he's going to "act this way". I stood up, looked him in the eye and said, "Excuse me...My brother has AUTISM, and unless you want to escort him out yourself then you let me WORK and leave me alone!" And you know? I never did see any customers who were offended, or upset that we were there. In fact, some even offered to help. My point is: If your child has a melt down in a public restaurant, and someone asks you to take him out, tell them that he has autism and some things can't be helped. Take your time to calm him, and if that's not working then you might have to walk out for a bit. Plus, you never know WHAT'S bothering them sometimes. Lights in restaurants used to bother my brother, plus the noise or crowd if they had one, you know what I mean?? There is no law (or restaurant rule) that says ALL children will be chucked out. There has to be an exception for disabled children because they are "protected by law" (I don't have any other way to explain that. lol) See what I mean?? So really, it's not ALL children. Now, I DO get angry when eating out and a child is misbehaving/throwing things/yelling and the parent does minimal or nothing. I think something needs to be said THEN, but there needs to be one of those ,"Hey, is your child ok? Can they be a smidgen more quiet." sort of thing. We don't eat out often (and if DH and I are ALONE it's even less often) so when we do I pack things in a bag for the boys to do, and I PRAISE teh restaurants who give them a coloring sheet and some crayons! lol
Doesn't it depend on the restaurant? Expensive restaurants cater to business folk who pay in part for the ambience. A baby crying or a child shouting and creating a mess is unacceptable there. In fast food restaurants, of course, they expect noise. For the mid-range restaurants, they must use discretion: Who are their target customers? Would it offend those customers more to allow screaming to continue or not to do something to stop it? We can stand on principle and state that all restaurants must put up with noisy children, but that's just not practical. If we know our child will be noisy, or that there's a reasonable possibility that he will be, then maybe we should choose restaurants wisely.
Restaurants are private property and should be allowed to do business as they please. Debate about public places is one thing but private property is private property. I do fear that there will be backlash against children when parents are no longer allowed or at least encouraged by culture to discipline children. It does frustrate me though because it is easier to limit all children from attending a restaurant even if you have well behaved children. :/ I'm sorry but my children ought to be allowed to go places other children aren't because they behave. Like I said though, private property is private property.
Anyone notice how the article lumped in breastfeeding with the list of inappropriate behaviors? Lame! I have four kids. They are well behaved for the most part. They have good manners and do not scream or throw fits. They can be loud and very active...my dh and I watch them like hawks when we go out. I'm sick of people who have no patience with kids. Yes they do come to the grocery store with me and the usual places people go. Yes sometimes I move a bit slower with four children then I would as a single person. I am happy to scoot out of the way (or move my child) with a nice excuse me. Loud sighing is not neccesary. I feel like people have such short memories. Don't they remember having young kids - or being one? As soon as they are out of that stage it's like they expect the world to be adult only. That being said I do wonder why some people choose to bring their children into places that just really aren't set up to them. At this point (my oldest is 5) the fanciest restuarant we will go to is Friendly's. We take our kids to matinee movies that are rated G....not night movies that cost $15 and are for adults. Last summer dh and I got a sitter for our anniversary and went to a very nice and pricey seafood restuarant....it was about 8pm too. At the table next to us there was a couple with a child who was super loud and disruptive the whole time. I think he was special needs, so I sympathized, but why would they take their child to a place like that? (or any young child?) Finally they put on a DVD on their laptop in an attempt to quiet him. Why would I want spent all that money to sit next to a DVD playing a kids' movie? I was pretty ticked really.
I agree with the article. I do not want to hear a screaming child throwing a fit while I am trying to enjoy a dinner with my family. If you can not control your child in public for whatever reason then perhaps you shouldn't take the child out.
I asked my mom about this today, and she said: On one hand, it's up to the restaurant. They have the right as business owners to allow anyone they want. Most restaurants have signs that say, "We reserve the right to refuse service". Thus, they have the right to refuse service to screaming children and parents who can't handle their children appropriatly, and other things like Smoking as well. Most restaurants refuse service to smokers (or their just ban from the restaurant) and that makes them upset, just like it would upst a parent of a screaming child. Ont the other hand, Mom says, it could be misleading. She remembers when she was young (in Kansas) most restaurants had signs that read, "No Indians" or "No Blacks". Is there a difference? Is it that kind of discrimination? Personally, I don't think so. It's the restaurant right. Like Steve says, It depends on the restaurant. A business man having a business meeting isn't going to want to dodge thrown peas, or talk over the screaming 4 year old across the restaurant. HOWEVER, there may soon be rules for this business man as well. What about a loud conversation about stocks and bonds on the cellphone. It's just the same. Really all restaurants have these policies, they just aren't written down. It's called, "Common Sense". If your child is screaming, take him out. If your loud on the phone, call them back. It seems some people have forgotten this common sense (can be exchanged with common courtesy) and need to be told, and read a sign to remind them, IMO.
I think you hit the nail on the head. All restaurants should have clear guidelines about what is and is not tolerated. That way there's no room for a waiter to inflict their own bias. But beyond that, each eatery needs to decide what sort of place they want to be. Obviously McDonald's is extremely kid friendly. Being intolerant of loud children there would put the place out of business. There are plenty of other 'family friendly' locales, too. But if I go to Touche (an EXTREMELY overpriced fancy-shmancy place here in town... average entree: $75), you bet your sweet bippy that I'd expect the waiter to ask a noisy child's parents to leave. As someone else said, why would you want to take your child somewhere where they would be disruptive, anyhow? Oh, and as to smoking in restaurants: Some of us are blessed to live in a city that is smoke free. Meaning nearly all restaurants are legally forbidden from allowing smoking. (the exceptions are for eateries where at least a certain percentage of their income is from alcohol sales... in other words, bars)
I agree too! It IS common sense. I think people tend to assume a little too much when they read things like this too. It's not meant to take offense, it's simply asking people to be considerate and not allowing your children to run a muck...as some people do allow their children to without disciplining them! I had to kind of chuckle of this... It's one more line in the sand(box) by adults who believe tolerance of cranky, crying, noisy (or quiet-breastfeeding) kids has a definite limit when they are around on a plane, in a restaurant, in a bar. A BAR??? Really, do that many people take their children to bars where they had to mention it??? Egads! We live in hicktown Wisconsin, and I don't even see people around here with kids in bars, unless it's part of a restaurant. I think it's common sense to not take your kid to a bar, period...but that's just me. Seems odd to me I guess.
I actually went to a restaurant where they had a sign "NO CELL PHONES (unless it's your babysitter)" on the wall.... I thought that was great! I have decided the world has lost common courtesy somewhere in the last 20 or so years. If you want a place for your kids to run and play while you eat - Chuck E Cheese.... see they made a restaurant for that! We were at the beach when we went to the seafood buffet - so loud was expected.... just not the running and screaming and "pretend blowing stuff up" in the aisle. At $25+ per person (dang kids are all "adult" menu kids now - except the 3 year old) don't make me have to dodge running screaming kids to get my food please.
I think you gals got the right idea. It's about where you are eating! For example here we have a restaurant that caters to senior citizens almost entirely, but we like to eat there because they have the best PIE in town. We try to go after 7 when most have already had their supper, but still I've had some people roll their eyes when they see the hostess seat me and my children near them. On the flip side of that at the very same restaurant I had an elderly couple come over to my table while I was eating with my boys (the baby was only about 5 months old) and the lady said she just wanted to tell me what a pleasure it was to eat in a room with my children and that she was sorry for assuming that my boys would be noisy and rude, she also thanked me for raising such mannerly children. I say that not to toot my own horn, but to show that perhaps the reasoning for this rule is that there is such a lack of common courtsey that most people expect that any child in public will act out...kinda like when we were in school and one person could ruin recess for the whole class by acting inapropriately. Now if I take my child anywhere that an indoor playground is offered I expect to have loud children around me and kids to be running about, however if I go somewhere (my anniversary supper at melting pot comes to mind) where the bill for the two of us will exceed the amount I would spend on a family supper at Applebees for example, then I expect to be in a nice quiet restaurant where I can enjoy myself. I was quite irritated at the screaming infant that sat behind us for more than half of our meal making it so that DH and I couldn't carry on a conversation! Oh and as for smoking, where we live there is no smoking permitted in any enclosed public place or within 30 feet of the entrance to said public place, even bars. So we don't have that problem, however many establishments are getting around that rule by putting outdoor seating on the side of the building, since a covered patio isn't enclosed.
You reminded me of what happens today when we visit a restaurant as a family (when we're all together, which is rare, there are nine of us, including our SIL, and the youngest is 12). As adults and teens, we make more noise than many families with young children! Our sons, in particular, are real jokers when they get together, and our table becomes a hive of laughter and increasingly loud voices. I've not thought before now about whether we're causing a distraction - but it does point out that adults can cause more noise than young children.
Being the daughter of an over-the -road truck driver, I have had the opportunity to eat at quite a few greasy spoons and ptomaine taverns in my lifetime. As most of you might know, in most truck stops there is a section reserved for professional truck drivers. If my dad took us out to eat as a family and we went to a truck stop (which was most of the time ) we eat in the family section. During those times the drivers' section could be pretty loud and rowdy. On the few occasions that dad took me out alone, we would sit in the drivers' section. Dad always got a big kick out of watching those "boys" try to behave themselves! I was too young to know how ornery dad was being, but I did know if I didn't behave I was gonna get it when I got home. And since those times out with dad were few and far between, I didn't want to spoil it for the next time!! Marty
