Our oldest, in public school, took to not doing his school work and writing things on his papers like "this is busywork" and such, refusing to do his work. We live in the south where even the public schools have the right to spank (the parents have to consent though I think). Finally, after spending way too much time in the assistant principals office, and ds being completely indifferent to everything, we resorted to spanking. It was not the first time. DS did shape up after that. I hate to resort to spanking, but we had to in the past a few times. The first time he was ever spanked, we were in public and he kept running really fast all over the place and I could not even restrain him and a security guard tried to help me and between the 2 of us, we could not really keep him restrained, so the officer told us he needed a spanking bad. I did not listen to him at first, but after a little girl (cancer patient) was terrorized by my son, I did give DS his first spanking ever. he has been spanked few times in his life. It generally has to be pretty drastic. OK...so...of the other children, of all of them put together, there has been maybe 2 spankings. We have never had the issues with the other children we had with oldest ds. But lately, we have been having lots of issues with DD, which I posted about. Everything is done in slow-motion. She is one of 4 children so for me to stand next to her the entire day trying to force her through the motions of functioning is pretty hard. DH is pointing out that if DD were ds and doing this stuff off at school, she would have gotten a spanking by now. He might be right. Up until recently, I have thought it was not so bad, but now I am wondering. It is 10:38am now and she is just now getting in the shower. Sometime around noon, she will mosey in to the kitchen ahd get something to eat. That will take until at least 1 in the afternoon, or later, to which she will complain too tired or something else, so she cannot do school work. She will likely start her school work, but literally, we are down to ONLY doing math as she cannot complete anything. By the end of the day, it is unlikely she will have completed much of anything and she will have gotten out of chores under the excuse that she needs to do her schoolwork. Yesterday, I was assigning her older brother chores, because I thought DD was finally doing her schoolwork. I saw her at the dining room table diligently reading a book and writing on paper. So after about an hour of this, I walk over to the dining room to get something and realize, she was reading a book about a game she wants to play!! She had not touched her math!!! I was soo mad!!!! So I grabbed the book away and told her to do her math NOW. Then she started to work when dh needed her help outside and I wanted her to go as she never just gets up and moves and gets exercise. So she says she cannot help him as she has math to do. I tell her to go anyway. She goes out and mosey's back in within 5 minutes and makes herself something to eat. I asked her what she was doing and she declared she was hungry and had to eat sometime. Uhhhh...no!! I did let her finish eating and then sent her outside to finish, but now I wish I had not let her get away with that. If she were that hungry, she would have been hungry enough to eat before she was sent outside to do a chore. At that point, I had to leave to run errands. DH says it is time to sit her down and tell her if this continues, she will be spanked. To lay out what is expected of her (again) and tell her finish it NOW or she will be spanked. Any crying, whining, tantrums, door slamming, or otherwise, and she will be spanked. I am starting to think he is right. This is ridiculous.
I have to agree with your dh it's time to lay the law down. I think she walking all over you and getting away it and loving it. How old is she? You need to tell her this time school starts, and you must have shower and breakfast done, this what I want done in school everyday and until then you can't do nothing else. Oh don't forget the chores.
Today, I gave her a schedule and told her that if she does not follow it, her dad will deal with her, which will likely mean a spanking. I told her lunch is from 12:00pm-12:30pm. After that and before that, no eating, just sit at the table and work. I told her afternoon snack and break will be at 3:30-4. If she is done with her schoolwork, she may leave her spot then. If not, she will continue to do her schoolwork at 4pm, but I will move her to her dad's office at that point in the day. I also told her no screaming at me, no running out of the room slamming doors, and no crumpling or ripping up papers. The physical behaviors like slamming doors and screaming and ruining papers generally only happens when she has PMS. But the other stuff, like barely moving and just not doing her schoolwork is a constant. She seems to get it and is in there working for now. I will tell her at noon that she can get up and eat then but has to sit back down at 12:30.
Just me but a spanking doesn't seem related to unfinished schoolwork, not a natural consequence of it that a kid could easily relate to their behaviour. Instead I'd do something like what you already mentioned. A schedule that's very clear and an attitude that schoolwork trumps everything else and if it's not done, there's no time for other stuff.
But what do you do when you have taken everything away, and she sneaks it, like she got caught doing yesterday? I have had to take books now and lock them up, literally. When I am locking up books that everyone in the family wanted to read, just to keep her from them, at what point is she alone the one who is punished?
I agree that spanking doesn't relate to the unfinished schoolwork, but I consider the issue NOT to be the work but a rebellious attitude. And I feel that spanking is a very acceptable punishment for that. I think they've tried all kinds of "natural consequences", and it hasn't helped. Drastic behavior requires drastic punishment. She has been told upfront what is expected, and what the consequences are. If SHE CHOOSES to not finish her work, then SHE IS CHOOSING the punishment.
I agree with this. I think natural consequences make sense in the case of unfinished schoolwork, and ought to be tried first, but if she is trying to override those consequences by sneaking around, she needs something more drastic.
My dd can procrastinate with the best of them. There have been days where she'd start on Math in the morning, and come bedtime, she still hadn't finished 1 lesson. Like your dd, she's had everything taken away, with no results. The first thing I did was set up certain times for things. School starts at the same time everyday. If she hasn't eaten breakfast & taken a shower by that time, she waits until lunch to eat & doesn't get a shower that day. She has half an hour for lunch & half an hour for dinner. When the half hour is up, any food left on her plate is taken away & she doesn't finish. She is allowed a snack in the morning & one in the afternoon (only if she finished the previous meal), but if she's still doing schoolwork, she has to work while she eats. If I catch her not working while she has her snack, the snack gets taken away. Showers are only 10 minutes long. I time them & open the bathroom door to tell her time is up. She then has 30 seconds to finish up & turn off the water or I'll turn it off for her (even if she hasn't finished rinsing off). After lunch or dinner, I have her do her chores before getting back to schoolwork. I give her a set amount of time to get each chore done. If it's not done in that time, there are consequences. Then, it's back to schoolwork, unless she's finished for the day. There have been times when I've made her stay up until she finished the day's work. If bedtime came & she wasn't done, she didn't go to bed. Once or twice, she's had to work until around midnight. She doesn't get to sleep in the next day, either. We rarely have to go to that extreme, anymore. One day of having to stay up working until midnight usually gets her moving faster for a while. I'm not saying not to spank her. If that's what it takes to get through to her, then do it. I'm just letting you know some of the things we've tried with our dd, maybe some of them will work with your dd. We've had to spank her for it too. As someone else said, the issue is her attitude & refusal to work. Sometimes, spanking is the only thing that gets through to kids that they need to change their attitude. Unfortunately, natural consequences or the removal of privliges doesn't always work. At those times, you do what you have to do. Good luck with this. I hope you can get through to her that this behavior is not acceptable.
I was really sharing what has worked for me. My daughter had similar issues and what worked was building a routine for her. Keep in mind that it didn't work right away though but after a few weeks of expecting the same thing daily things got much better. My style is more to work on everything before they can be sneaky or lazy, sleep, food, routine, whatever. Not that I don't punish just that my suggestions will tend to have that bias to them because that's what generally works well for me. Feel free to ignore my suggestions if they don't apply.
I have to agree on this. For us our oldest son has Autism and it is not advisible to use spanking as discipline. What works for us is having a set schedule. Our oldest DS knows each day what we are going to work on. Granted, sometimes he does not want to work on some subjects. I break up the day in segments because through trial and error, we found that he needs breaks between some assigments. We have found best times that DS #1 stays focused and seems to work more independently (which is during DS #2's naptime). If our oldest has bad behavior, we take away priviledges that he has such as computer playtime or if he was acting up while playing with a specific toy, that toy is removed and locked up until he earns that privledge again by doing something like cleaning his room, helping do the laundry with Mom (sorting and folding laundry), etc. We have a time out chair that is used for bad behavior too. Sometimes one of the boys have lost out on trips to the store with Dad or special treats such as trips to the Dollar Tree with me. When they start to lose out on trips out or use of their favorite toys they shape up.
I didn't see an age for your DD, but I saw this: I'm still back and forth on the spanking issue, but that is mainly personal - my mom was borderline abusive, so for me it's a no-go area because I don't want to lose control - but I've always thought that a child old enough to have PMS is out of the spanking range. Simply because a child that old - or rather, a preteen or teen - should be better able to understand consequences, etc. There should be better ways to teach them, if for no other reason than because if you don't have it figured out, you're going to have a real problem once they get bigger than you (unless, of course, they are petrified, which I don't get your kids are). And once they are out of your sight, which they are more likely to be. I don't have any preteen/teen solutions - I like to joke that I always know exactly how to handle teens because my oldest is only 7, but once she is 13 I won't have a clue - so someone else will have to chime in on that, if there are any others who agree. As I said, I don't have an inherant issue with spanking, but I do think it should be phased out by a certain age. Just my 2c. SG
For the most part, I would agree with scottieg. However. This behaviour seems extreme. I think you said in another post dd was 12. We spank for open defiance (most useful at 2yrs) and danger. (also a 2 yo thing) But there is a 3rd catagory. It is GP for General Principle. If you have a bad attitude and have been getting in bits of trouble for an extended period. (a week or whatever) then you get a GP. It is anounced as such and often one is left to stew a bit. (such as "go to your room, I will be in, in a few minutes for your GP") It is two very significant swats with something other than my delicate hand. (a hairbrush or wooden spoon) It is rarely used...I have found, especially with the preteen crowd that the humiliation of the GP is worth almost as much as the pain. Unless we start marrying them off as soon as they start to bleed...I don't see menstruation as a free pass for bad behavior. One caveat: for a girl past 10 it must be mother who does the spanking and for a boy, the father. (unless of course they are not available.) But it might be putting your dh in a bad position if said child has a fertile imagination in addition to a bad attitude.
I have two dd's who are PMSers. While they are growing into women, I feel I am still responsible for them and if they need a reality check and that includes an old fashioned spanking than so be it. I am not going to put up with bad attitudes and them thinking it's o.k to behave that way. I will not tolerate bad behavior from any child.
Agreed. I don't think they should have a free pass. I just think that a teen's brain is wired differently from a 5 yo's. <shrug> Maybe that's just me. I guess (thinking this through) I think that by the time a child is a teen we should be influencing them more from a distance than up close. That we should be using more logical - or natural - consequences than spanking. That they should not be motivated by fear but from respect and personal responsibility. I know for a fact that spanking a teen does not automatically translate into respect. Again, my oldest is only 7, BUT my brother and sister-in-law are both 18. My bro went off to college this year, and my mom kept trying to spank him. He was about a foot taller and laughed at her, and he still has the lousy attitude she was trying to correct. My SIL went through a period where she realized that she could do what she want, as long as she didn't get caught (except she kept getting caught, LOL), and so did my husband, her bro. My sister was deathly afraid of my mom, who spanked (slightly different situation, as I said), so she ran off and got pregnant at 16 and moved out. No more spankings. I won't talk about me, LOL. But as I said, I've seen how spanking doesn't work on teens, so I have little respect for it as a tool for older kids. To each their own. SG
I am not comfy with spanking myself. But what I did do is set down times she has to sit at the table in the dining room and do her work and what times she can break to eat and that is it. Until her work is done, she will do nothing but this. Sad, but true. So far, day 2, it is working.
I'd take away everything- toys, books, games, anything she enjoys. She must them earn them back by complying with school work. If she still doesn't comply- start throwing things away or donate them. You'll have to get over losing the money they cost if you want to get the point across. I've done this.
Defiance calls for swift action, I remember every significant spanking I rec'd, both were swift and both for for absolute defiance! I was in the 6th grade when one of them occured!
I have to agree with Becky. I am a pro-spanking parent, but it really depends on the age too. I do believe there is such a thing as too old for one. JMO. Seems like you are being walked all over. You need to take the control back. They need a schedule, you need to be their parent and their teacher. Just like any other teacher, you have to guide and sit with them and teach them, not expect them to 'just do it' on their own. Do you make it fun for them? Sit with them to keep them focused? Keep on top of them! Good luck.
Good! Honestly it didn't really sound like a defiance issue or anything like that but more a lack of direction and routine. It's a lot of work to keep it up and to be constantly steering her and helping her keep focused but in my experience it works extremely well once a child knows exactly what to expect in a day. You'll probably have bad days but as long as you have that routine and sit down time you can go back to it should get better in the long run.
