Yup, that's my son talking --- again. He's 10. We're working on adding mixed fractions. All last week, the fight wasn't doing the math... it was reducing the fractions once he got his answer (making 4/8 into 1/2). He just flat-out wouldn't do it. I'd check his paper, mark the ones that weren't reduced, go over it again with him on the white board, he'd say he understood, turn it back in an hour later... and half of them still weren't reduced (while half were -- so he DOES know how to do it.) Today, we're finding the lowest common denominator so that mixed fractions can be added. We've gone over it a dozen times. He says he understands it. Turns it in... and all he's done is multiply the denominators together (like if it's 1/6 + 3/4... he multiplies 1/6x4/4 & 3/4x6/6) Which is fine sometimes --- sometimes that DOES end up being the lowest common denominator. But SOMETIMES he ends up with denominators WAY higher than they need to be because he won't reduce the suckers down! We went back to the white board --- for the umpteenth time ---- today. I went over it with him again. He's all zoned out starring at the wall, mouth hanging open "uh-huh....uh-huh...can I just go do it now? I understand it" So I go "if you understood it, you wouldn't be having to erase it & start over. I need to know where you're confused so I can help you figure it out." "I really just don't care and I HATE doing any of this stuff!" Ugh... I swear.. this child's gonna land me in the insane asylum.
I can totally sympathize! Ours isn't just math though, its every subject and every chore. Really makes me question my reasons for homeschooling, and my ability to do so even sometimes.
<sympathy> If I were in your spot, but the time he said this, I'd have been tempted to say, "Me, too!" I think this isn't a math issue. It's a "there are things we have to do in life" issue. Boring things, tedious things, but necessary things. One year I had a fifth grade class of all boys and we (all of us) were trudging through a lesson. I finally stopped and said, "You know what guys? We have to do this. I'm as bored and tired of it as you are, but we have to do it. Can we just get it over with so we can move on?" They then got it all done in one lesson session. I can't remember what the lesson was, but I remember I learned from them that you can just get through something when you have to. So, I wish I had some words of wisdom to get that across to your DS, but I know you will get through it. 'Cause you have to. I wish that sounded more inspiring.
Oh we do that with long division!!!! UGH!!!! So I am right with you on it - 3 HOURS to do 10 problems.... it was awful..... we made it through - he "gets" it..... but I don't want to do it again - LOL
When your son was younger and you made him try that new veggie, did he chew and chew, contorting his face, prolonging the torment to his taste buds by refusing to swallow? That is an accurate description of my son. I remind him of this when he balks at doing problems that he says he knows. If he'd just prove that he knows it, we'd move on and end the academic torture! Instead, he prolongs the agony. At least, when the issue was food, he wasn't torturing me too. His mouth was full, so he couldn't complain!
If the problem is fractions, Deena told me about "The Life of Fred" series! The first book is fractions, and the next one is decimals/percentages. What makes this book different is that it's a STORY with math included. And it is SO funny!!! Faythe loved it, and she really enjoys doing the fractions now. Plus, it's rather cheap, compared to other math curriculum.
I may be willing to sell our LOF fractions book. Garrett doesn't seem to care for it, we got a regular workbook to get us ready for TT next year, I think we are done with LOF, but I want to ask him if he wants to finish it before I offer it for sale... we have only read 9 chapters of it.
My kids hate this lecture I give...: "Well either you are playing ignorant, in which case you deserve to do more work until your attitude clears up... OR you ARE ignorant of how to do it and you NEED more work.... either way, you are getting more work.... Prove it to me that you know it and it will stop. YOU are in control from here on out..." Followed by double the sighs and rolled eyes, etc.... (Because I have the TWO at the same time...) I agree with the above...... learning fractions is not the issue.. learning to do what needs to be done in a timely manner "IS" the lesson here.. and one they need to learn at home.. Consider it a learning opportunity, eh? Now as far as the answer on HOW to get them to do it... he he he If I had THAT I would be SUPER RICH!
now, for the most part ds likes math. So it isn't quite the issue at our house. BUT certain things...like long division and fractions and reducing....do produce groans. We are using Saxon. If we go over a lesson and he can get a 100% on the practice problems (about 10, pertaining to the lesson) then he can skip to the next lesson...if not (for 85% or higher we do odd problems) then he has to do the problem sets. (25 that are a review) This has motivated him to work on doing them properly. If he misses the problems, he must correct them and SHOW his work...if his score is good...then he can do as much in his head as he wants...
I have to say, I like Saxon a lot better than Math-U-See. My kids rarely moan and groan about the math anymore since Saxon is so repetitive. And they seem to get better scores on everything.
How about "I'm not gonna do it and you can't make me"?! That's what I get.....my response isn't as articulate as Jen...we don't usually get past "OH yeah?" :twisted:
Well, I am a bit toooooo "Old School" for some people's tastes.. but.... If you are a kid, YOUR JOB is to learn... You get paid with privileges and the opportunity to NOT have to do nasty (Low Paying) jobs. (Although they still have regular chores to help out the family as a whole. If you choose not to do your work (School work included). #1 You get no privileges. #2 You have to do something else to "Pay your way". (Since NOT getting a good education can amount to a low paying dirty job, I make them do the dirty work... scrubbing toilets, etc....) I can't imagine my kids yackin back at me, or daring to take several hours to do something. That would be me LETTING them take several hours to do something. Set a timer. No more than about 30 minutes for any given subject. Anything that they have a problem understanding, they circle and move on to the next one..... Announce that the job must be completed in this amount of time. If not, the books get closed and you move on to something else. (Just like in real school when classes end.) When the "Something else" (CHORE or school work RELATED) is complete... they have to go back and FINISH the original work before doing anything other than sleeping eating or bathing. (ie: HOMEWORK!!!!!!!!!!!!) And if it is tough on the family SO WHAT. It sucks to potty train them, too. But we do it because we love them and this is more than fractions that we are learning about. If I got sassed back more than the typical rollin of the eyes or deep groans and sighs, I have been known to use a bit of booty bouncin' encouragement. (Like I said, I am "Old School".) Every kid should be allowed to express their anger, but NOT too the point of complete disintegration of the power hierarchy. I can go about my day just fine with a kid yelling things at me, while they sit in a time out corner..... as long as they are in the time out corner... Or the school desk ot table, what have you........... And yes, I am stronger than they are... I can put them back in that time out corner ALL NIGHT until they emotionally break down and finally choose to stay in said corner... although because I HAVE done this, I have NEVER had to do it TWICE. And when it comes to any job, chores, seatbelts, or school work, my kids know I mean business. They have also figured out that my lectures are MUCH WORSE than a quick pop on the booty! hahahahaha! They used to call me Monster Mommy for a reason! BWAAA HAAA HAA HAAA But I am also VERY quick to praise. I even had one twin yesterday put MY foot in my mouth, and I admitted it AND he beamed AND I made a big deal out of it AND I hugged him AND we laughed about how even mommy is NOT always right AND how good it feels to "Put someone in their place". What had he done? I sat the timer for math and said, "Ok, this will take about 20 minutes, goodness knows that'll give me time to eat." Connor said he could finish in five and I said, no hurry babe, you don't have to race. He said it was no race he was THAT good. I said, yea, ok.... went back to eating... Mid byte the boy shows up with his finished paper with all problems right... And well he was right.... It was a great moment.... Now they LOVE putting me in my place...
I am pretty happy with Saxon. Ds does not need all the repetition, but we do do the problem sets every so often. (once or twice a week) I like how the problems are changed up...in other words not doing 25 of the same type of problem. (which kills me) I have tried to print out worksheets...but that has been a flop. it is just too much of one thing. I also like that I can see a pattern pretty quickly. We have some trouble with area an perimeter...remembering which is which...so I can go back to the problem sets that we haven't done and pull out some specific problems to work on. I think we will do Saxon next year and then go to teaching textbooks for pre-algebra. As far as moaning and groaning...the other thing I do is agree when they are right. Like long division. I agree, it is horrid and there are no short cuts, that is why they call it LONG division...but it is an important concept. We have to buckle down and get it. Other things like composite numbers...not so much, so then I read the lesson and state (in a loud dramatic voice)"This is silly, I have no idea what a composite number is and I am an adult who does fine in the real world. We will skip this lesson if you want!" Sometimes we go over the concept orally, and then go on. I think this helps ds feel like I am "on his side"
HEre is what I do when we get to stuff that is like this.. and dont think I am going insane cause it works with my ds! Reduce the amount of problems he has to do... do a couple of them with you writing the answers he tells you... it helps you see if he is missing a step on his own.. you be his hands so to speak? Another thing I do when its getting frustrating for him not because he does not know how to do it but becasue he does and its bugging him is skip every othe rproblem.. no it is not always nessacary to do each problem in your books! I have problems with my ds when it come to subtraction and addition he hates them, they are time consuming and there is tons of writing... thats his excuse. So I have found that when these things come up if I write down for him to skip so many of the problems, and explain that he has to do the ones he does correctly or he will have to do the rest, it really helps! That is my fav one, cause then he shows me he can do it right, and I know he learned it!
That's a coping mechanism! He does care and he's frustrated. This isn't about him trying to get over on you. Barron's has a series called Back to Basics. I forget how many in the series, but one volume does cover fractions. I got it at the library. When I went to earn my high school diploma, I had to brush up on all that stuff. These books really break it down for you.
AMEN! I am old school too! I love the part in bold girl that is totally it! Samantha hates certain things too but ya know what it is all part of it. They aren't going to like everything but that doesn't mean they get to opt out of doing it. I hate getting up early but I have to becasue I babysit. I hate cleaning toilets but I have to. I hate paying bills but I have to. I hate dealing with my inlaws but I have to. Kids and adults are always going to have things they hate but must do anyway. It is a part of life.
Jen - girl I love you! ditto ditto on your post. My dh loves to "get to the bottom of what the kids are feeling" I threaten that a lot. You can just do it (my way) or you have to TALK TO DAD ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS!! bwa ha ha My kids clamor "spank us please, just get it over with!!!! Don't make us TALK to DADDY!!!" hee hee
Yea, you know you're REALLY a parent when you kids finally admit they would rather you beat them senseless than to have to ever listen to one of your lectures again! hahahahahahaha! I remember being a kid and BEGGING for a pop or two.. ANYTHING but to have to listen to my mom's rants... hahahah!
lol I took out the old stand with your nose against the door thing the other day. It worked, he did the rest of the day with no problems!
