Just one other point, it you don't mind... Why is it that, for matters of theology, we trust those who are experts in the subject - but for science, we reject those who are experts in the subject? As you know, I have a PhD in physics, but I still, after many years, am forced to bite my tongue in church as qualified scientists are ridiculed and layman views are lauded. In no other subject does this happen. OK, it's off my chest!
For what it's worth, my Pastor's PHD in biology (and time spent in the classroom and labs) is what led him to a Divinely-created young-Earth belief. However, I agree with your point 100%. And again state, emphatically, that being young-Earth makes you no more or less of a literal Biblical interpreter than those who are old-Earth.
That is an interesting point. I have thought about the wine thing also. I think they drank wine, but not to get drunk. In fact, I know there is a Bible verse about wine being good for digestion or something similar. I am not trying to defend drinking or anything (I don't drink), but I think we are often guilty of choosing what to take literally and what to follow and what to disregard as NOT pertaining to us, etc.
Steve, I understand your point to a certain extent, but there is nothing to show that God didn't just defy the laws He himself made while creating the earth. I have heard that with the young earth theory that it would be impossible for light from certain stars to be evident from earth even now since they are so far away. While that may be scientifically true, that doesn't mean that God didn't make it work a different way when He created the earth and everything else in space. I am just saying He can do things any way He wants. So expert or not, the evidence may not disprove things that it seems to disprove.
You temptress! How can I now sit on my hands and avoid a debate as requested? Arrgh. OK - just one point, that often is overlooked: It is NOT true that our God can do anything. Indeed, there are many things he simply CANNOT do. If this is a topic worthy of discussion elsewhere, I'm open to it. It's a crucial point in this whole...um...deb...no...discussion. Back to sitting on my hands.
HOLY COW, STEVE!!!!!!!!!!! I cannot believe you did this well in your reply. The moment I read that PP I thought, "Oh no. Here we go. Just hand Steve one of his rant points on a silver platter, would ya?" :lol:
I will have to let it go. I forgot not to debate and in respect for the OP, I will also restrain myself for this thread. On the other hand, there are some things that I really don't worry about too much and this in one of them. I do think about it when a debate/discussion comes up but... I also think the evolution debate is an argument in religious and secular circles that needs to be put to rest. For goodness sakes, why do we even have to consider which is right for science books. There is a lot more to biology than evolution/creation. I don't think very many fields that specialize in science even need to bother with it. Of course there are some that do "need" to know it if possible, I guess. Who knows?
What I find interesting is that some who believe and preach young earth theology, will take pop shots at the other miracles in the Bible. For example when a young earth preacher will show off and explain away parting of the "Red" sea as actually the parting of the "Sea of Reeds", or that a wind could have bounced from a bank and a bernouli or other phisics effect took place moving the water. The Bible is a book of poetry, history, mysticism, parable, genealogy, apocrypha, and allegory. I find no evidence it is a science book for the sake of science. I will offer a poor illustration then attempt to describe what I believe on this matter. I imagine a painting of a pitcher of water being poor out, in this picture the water is halfway to hitting the ground. I think that God could have created the universe then planted the 6 day earth into it. I believe he could have created the entire universe in progress, in 6 days,complete with carbon isotopes in place at old earth levels, and light in progress from stars to earth. LOL It really does not matter to me, simply because I believe that God is the creator of the universe and all that is in it. I was a natural science major. If nothing else I learned alot about how awesome our God really is. All of the details of biology, chemistry and physics indicate an unimaginable number of permutations of chance that would have to be believed if one were to reject that God is Creator. Regarding the probability aspect of believe I will take the 50/50 bet and keep it simple. There are so many ways that God could have pulled off placing the earth within his creation, that it seems silly to argue about it, especially I believe He came up with the genetic code, quantum physics, the nervous system, gravity, matter<>energy, and a list that could go on eternally. On a tangential topic, I find it interesting that so many in science find it their job to disprove Christianity and campaign against it. I chuckle to myself believing full well that they will never find the end of the universe, and they will never find the smallest subatomic particle. I find it ironic that the more they look the larger the apparatus needed. Even though I know they are not built for the purpose of challenging God, (not entirely ) I think of them as Quantum towers of Babel. I become frustrated when freinds watch a snippet on Ophrah or Oz about some herb helping with this that of the other, then thinking they are an expert of that topic. They will insist in conversations with their MD that he prescribe said herb for their malady. They, apparently, have no understanding on the bio-chemical pathways that are involved in their symptoms, and how many different medical conditions may have the same symptoms etc etc etc. They have presented to the physician....WHY!? If they think he had the answers, they why are they telling him what to prescribe. IF they know the answer to their problem why did they not have faith in that answer and try a bottle of said herbal supplement. (Call me insane but sometimes I Soooooo! feel the need to swat people I know with a Doc Martin DVD case.) Anyway, I do not want pray, worship, or fellowship with God, armed with such an infinitely small amount of information yet insisting He created the earth this or that way. His ways are not our ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts.
There is a perfectly logical reason why they do that: All a post-modern man needs to do to discredit the whole of Christianity, the entire Bible itself, is to prove the Earth was not created in 6 days. Why? Because die-hard young-Earth Christians have handed them that argument on a silver platter. When we assert that the ONLY possible interpretation of the Bible is that God created the Earth in 6 days, then to prove otherwise throws out the credibility of the entire Bible. Also because Christians have created an equally hostile environment toward science. We wage war in our churches against science; why? Are we afraid of what the experts will find? If our God is God and our understanding of Scripture sound, then the scientists will never be able to disprove anything found within its pages.
You are spot on. As a litmus test, it also turns many people away from our churches - which is desperately sad. Your observation holds true for other claims often quoted in Christian cultural circles. For example, it's asserted by many that homosexuality is a behavioral issue and not a genetic one. I am 100 percent certain that it will be proved to be genetic. Once again, we're setting ourselves up as uneducated, closed-minded, and it undermines the claims we make that really are important. Hands...chair...sit on them.
