We are currently having a a disagreement over using fingers to count. DH says it's a hard habit to break and I shouldn't use that method, I say how else is a 5 yr old suppose to add/subtract? We use beads on occassion Are there other more effective methods?
Mine began with fingers as well. Soon, I switched to flash cards (home made index cards with numerals written on them) to help with number recognition. This was the only way I could think of to help them recognize which digits go with which number word. Plus, I was clueless about how to introduce the concept of zero. The flash cards worked. At first, I only did them in order. They "counted" out loud while I showed them the cards. (I used three different colors to make the cards. My kids are visual learners.) Soon, they could tell me the names of the digits out of order. About the same time, they were able to count objects and STOP when there were no more objects. (As opposed to counting three objects over and over until they reached 10. :lol: ) Anyway. I think fingers as an introduction is fine, and we chose to move to digit recognition as soon as I figured out how to do so. HTH....
DS is really good in math. He's heading into 2nd grade in the next month. He's just not memorizing like DH would like. But he's just 5½, so I said give it time, as we do more he'll do it less. He doesn't think so because when he used to teach he had high schoolers using their fingers.
Personally, I do not have a problem with a 5 year old using fingers to count. At five, their brain is still developing and the important thing is that they grasp the concept of the math problem. As your child grows older, you can teach how to do it in his/her head. I do not see any difference in counting with fingers or anything else. But I agree with your husband; by the time students are in high school, it would be nice if they can do it without fingers. But you want to know something? I still use my fingers from time to time. I do not know if this is good or bad as long as I can get the answer. Math is not, has not been, and most likely never will be my strong point. Handsome on the other hand is a human calculator. He is quick as a whip. I am in awe when I see him correcting Emma's math without a calculator or answer key. He is a concrete tilt-up foreman/superintendent and all he does all day is math. Anyways, I am getting off the original point! Sorry! :? I honestly do not have any great ideas.:angel: I'll sit back and see if anybody does. Perhaps I can learn to stop using my fingers by reading this thread.
I wonder if your DH isn't forgetting what math was like for him before he was good at it. Kids as young as your son need good concrete resources to relate the abstract idea of numbers to and fingers are a perfect manipulative because they're base five or ten, are portable and easy to manipulate. (from here) What he observed in his students is not something sound he can use to draw to draw conclusions about finger-counting in younger children. Babies most often need to crawl before they walk. It would be illogical to assume that because a few teenagers are crawling on the floor therefore that crawling is a bad habit that babies must not develop.
Rightstart encourages you to have your child show on there hands the amount and show with objects the amount, but not really to count with your fingers. It is more to help show value. The program discourages counting, they say it slows you down and doesn't teach a child value. Did that make sense? Or did I just ramble away on something that did not make a lick of sense?LOL
I don't have a problem with counting, but it IS faster to do without. So after a while, you might want to go to giving timed tests and work on "speed". HOWEVER...if your husband really doesn't want him using his fingers, you need to be submissive to that.
This is great!! I don't think counting in itself is bad. As far as quantities go, a person needs to be able to recognize that this is one more than that... which is counting. My middle son, with whom I started using the flash cards as soon as he could count from 1 to 10 on his fingers, will be 5 in May. He can point to items, one at a time, counting them. My youngest is 3 and is beginning to do the same thing. (He had to work on it a little longer - he's the one that would count the same 3 objects repeatedly until he reached 10. We stopped that by counting TOGETHER and me saying, "See? There's 3! Just 3, no more. 3. 1, 2, 3. There's 3!" It took a couple days, maybe a week.) BUT, I'll say this: If your son is 5 and doing 2nd grade work... don't forget that HE'S ONLY 5! Yes, he may can handle the material, but he will go about it differently than a 7 or 8 year old would. It's a maturity thing, not an intelligence thing. Are you using a math curriculum? If so, what, or what do you plan to start? (Just gives an idea of the approach you prefer to use is all. If you say, "none" then I'll know to answer with a more 'unschooling' type answer, and if you say 'Saxon' I'll know we're talking drills. :lol: ) Seriously. If you let him suck on his fingers at 3 months, let him count them at 5 years. :lol:
I also agree with this. It's just about when, I think. I think counting at 5 is fine. If my husband was adamently opposed to counting on fingers, though, I'd probably find some beans or something to count. (That, and occasionally chat with my husband about what it is we're doing, how we're accomplishing this or that, and why that might be a little easier if occasionally fingers were allowed. :lol: ) But that's a Christian marriage thing and not everyone cares. Plus, my dh is one of the great ones that if I explain why I think this or that, he pretty much trusts my judgemet. I don't have this issue, and I forget. Thanks for the reminder, Jackie!
Thanks ladies. I keep telling him, he is only 5 and will grow out of it. He grasps the concepts and does very well in his work. But i think the memorization thing along with some of his sensory issues will probably take a bit longer than his concept development. Dh trusts me in what I'm doing, it just bugs him and would 'prefer' I find a way for him to do it in his head. I'm not sure that's possible for him at this age. Dh is a math whiz and does math that's above my head. It seems to be a natural thing for him. DS seems to take to it very well/easily but I think only time will tell on how fast he can memorize. He has his good days where he can whip up an answer in no time and his off days where it takes him a bit to get the answer. I think dawninns is right in DH forgetting what it's like to start out. He's just thinking of the high schoolers and college students still using their fingers. I told him, I don't think anyone worked with them to move past that and onto memorization. I think I just have to keep re-enforcing that we are working on moving past that. He's just gotten faster at addition but is still a little slow at subtraction of double digits. DaLynn - Dh is great in that if we discuss stuff and I present my side/reasoning he trusts it. But this is one thing I know really bugs him and would like to find a solution to it if I can. The only solution might be time though. Right now we just finished up this one. We are working independently on money (he just passed his test with 100%), fractions and clocks with a few supplemental books. The core math book left some of the gaps I wanted to fill before moving on. By May we will be starting on Horizons which I think will cover and fit ds a lot better.
Sounds to me like you're doing great! (*Realizing I sound like I know everything!* Sorry!!! I'm just a "must research to find all information" type of person! LOL) I think you're right - it's just about kiddos having someone to work with them from one stage to the next, and for right now that might be a bit beyond him. Moving from fingers to manipulatives of some sort - blocks, counting bears... or beans. Maybe some calendar math would help move away from fingers? Horizons looks like a good choice IMHO, moving from what you've shown me and basing it on this one thread. LOL It may not conceptually be what he needs, but you can breeze through the concepts as quickly as he can grasp the techniques and do some hands-on things to occupy those fingers. Anyway. Sounds like you've sort of worked it out in your brain through talking here, :lol: and maybe just needed a little confidence/agreement? Looks to me like you're on a path that will work for you guys!
I think we are doing ok, he's very motivated and gets upset if we don't "do school" at least 5 days a week. I think counting on his fingers and using beads is just a stepping stone. I think DH fears the kids won't move on to the next step but I have faith we'll get there. Shoot any advice on curriculum is always welcome, I'm changing things up quite a bit this next year, so we'll see how things go.
I know he will move on because he is homeschooled. You hit the nail on the head in your last post about the high school students not being taught to do math in their head. I am not bashing public school but this is a normal thing that is passed because the teachers must move on. I honestly do not remember being taught how to figure in my head.
I think that if these experienced and intelligent ladies have no problem with it than it must be ok. Personally, I discouraged all use of finger counting. Why? I was NEVER allowed to use my fingers or a calulator. lol. The most my dad would allow was me writing slashes on a piece of paper. LOL. My dad is a whiz in math, so I guess I thought he knew what he was talking about. LOL. So, I just taught my kids with manipulatives and how to count in their heads. It was easy for them so I never revisited the counting with fingers issue. I am sure your son will get out of the habit. My godson, couldn't add 2+2 without a number line. Used to drive me insane. lol. However, now he is smart as a whip and doesn't rely on number lines to do his math. Well, he is far beyond a number line being useful in his math...but he no longer needs one. So, I suppose eventually that habit will be broken.
Thanks ladies. I think the horizons uses slashes so maybe that will be our step towards moving past fingers. It's difficult sometimes. We travel for appts & stuff alot some weeks so we take our work with us, kinda hard to take th abacus or bag of beads with us.
I can say from my experience with my eldest...in K and 1st she did a lot of finger counting...especially for adding/subtracting. She's now in third grade and does all of her math in her head - including regrouping! It irritates me b/c I like to see 'the work' when she has to regroup! LOL Finger counting did not seem to hurt her. My son is using Math U See, and I think they frown on finger counting too - but he's pulling more and more away and doing mental math. Which...lets' face it...when we do mental math we're imagining the number of objects, right???? LOL Anyway...I don't think it hurts at all!
When I was 5, my dad taught me how to add and subtract using dots made with my pencil. He would also point out to me that 2 had two points that I could put dots on, 3 had three points and 4 had four. (If it doesn't make sense, look at the 3 and how there are three parts sticking out on it. That's what I mean by points on a number) But anyways, that has always stuck with me until now even. I use fingers, dots, points on numbers and whatever gets the job done! It doesn't hinder my speed in any way at all and I don't think it's a bad habit. I mean, how else are you supposed to count if you haven't memorized every subtraction/addition problem ever?
Welcome, Steshka! I had a middle school math teacher explain this to me when I was in college. He believed like you, that it didn't matter as long as it "got the job done". He says that fingers work; so does dots, only dots are faster. But to MEMORIZE is even quicker. He found that the dots encouraged the kids, because they felt like "babies" using their fingers. The dots could be used "without anyone being aware they were doing it". Eventually he found that most of them will then move on to memorizing.
Ugh. The inevitable "dots" conversation. I was also taught this, and it DOES now hinder me. My 9yo can do subtraction faster than I, because I'm stuck counting dots and he just has facts memorized. And, you don't need to memorize every fact ever - just 0-9. I extremely urge anyone to stay away from dots. Dots haunt me. :lol:
So you need to work on memorizing them! Make it a game with your kids! THEY can take a timed test, and Mommy will take one, too!
