This is mostly just a vent, but if anyone has suggestions I'm all ears. My kids are in 6th and 4th grade and BOTH of them absolutely despise math! Because they both hate it so much, I really feel it's my fault, or their curriculum causing the problems. They both do Saxon Math. I really like the curriculum because they get lots of review. Also, they are in Classical Conversations and I plan to have them go on through the Challenge Program, which also uses Saxon Math. I use the workbox method, so I assign their assignments to a box. I've tried assigning math as the first subject - they both cried, "Noooo, I can't do math first, I need something easier." I've tried it in the middle, but they pretty much quit school once they get to their math workbox. And if it's the last subject, well it never gets done, or they drag it out until 10:00 at night and I'm yelling at them, at my wits end. They both complain its too much work and takes too long. So, I gave them incentive. I said if you can get A's on your assignments for 4 days straight (we do math 4 days per week) then you can just do the odd problems the entire next week. This backfired on me though because now they are both afraid to do a single problem without my help because they want so bad to get A's and go down to doing the odds. I sit with them and teach the lesson and do the practice problems with them. We almost never print the practice tests, because that causes major meltdowns and truthfully, I'm just afraid and too tired to deal with it, so we skip that part. Well, I've finally had it with Saxon, thinking that's the problem. I decided I want to try Math U See. I showed them the instructor video today, and was really excited about this program and using manipulatives. I was trying to hype my kids up. About 1 minute into the sample video, they start saying, "This is boring, how much longer, just order the program." I had them take a placement test today, in place of doing their Saxon lesson (because I knew we'd have a temper tantrum if I ADDED it to their lesson!). They were both excited to skip a Saxon lesson today. But, when starting the Math U See placement, my son didn't understand that parenthesis meant multiplication. I explained to him all the different signs for multiplication and he said, "nevermind, this looks too hard. I'll stick with Saxon." My daughter immediately turned to the last page, saw she had 35 problems to do, compared to her 25 problems in Saxon and said, "this test has too many problems, I'm sticking with Saxon too." I know math is not for everyone, and for many it's boring. But I feel strongly that it needs to be learned at this level. My kids purposely shut the gates to their brains when it's time for math. I'm embarrassed to say that they both count on their fingers still, and don't know their times tables. We practice them all the time, but they purposely shut down everytime I ask a math question. I can say, "what's 2 times 2" and the knee jerk reaction is, "NOOO, I don't want to study math, can I clean my room or something instead?" I try super hard to be positive about math, but at this point I think I literally get an ulcer everytime I see their math book, and everytime I know our next subject is math. My anxiety is through the roof with math, and while I try super hard to be positive, they know I'm anxious and they talk me out of doing extra problems all the time. I really want them to spend a solid hour per day LEARNING math, but we spend about 2 to 3 hours per day tantruming over math. We've tried taking time off. We took almost the entire month of December off from Saxon math and just did online math games, but the first day back at the Saxon math, they had a fit. Ug! So sorry for the book report, but thank you for listening and I'm open for any ideas at all! I'm thinking math boot camp at this point!
Math U See! It will take the stress off of all three of you! I use it with my dd. We are up to pre-algebra now. It makes so much more sense to ME than the others. Saxon was very stressful for us. I am not a math person!!!
Teaching Textbooks did wonders for my son who hated doing math even though he was good at it. I had the Saxon books given to me, everything from grade 3 to Alg 2, all complete sets. I passed them on and struggeled to find the money for TT. I AM very mathy, love love love math and doing Saxon would have made me hate math. I was not going to torture my kid who was good at math but didn't like doing it by making him do Saxon.
What kinds of things excite your kids? Maybe there is a way to help them find the joy in math in a way that relates to their interests?
Wow, thanks! Maybe it is Saxon. All their friends at Classical Conversations use it and the parents don't seem to mind it, so I really felt this was the best program. Especially since they'll have to use it in a couple years if we stay with Classical Conversations. I just watched some demos on Teaching Textbooks. I can really see my son (and maybe my daughter) doing well with that. I had him do a quick practice lesson. It wasn't like he won a lifetime supply of ice cream or anything, but he did look a bit happy about it. LOL. I hate to say this, but I think my kids are still scarred from their public school experiences. We loved our old public school, but had lots of problems when we moved, which is why I am homeschooling. They really don't seem to enjoy learning, except for the subjects where I read to them (Bible, History). They also enjoy watching videos to learn, and they enjoy our science experiments, except when it comes time to write what you learned. I'm having a hard time engaging them to be willing participants in their schooling. So, what they love the most is when they don't have to do school work! I know I could find ways to make math more exciting by baking pies and such, but I work from home and I spend a couple hours per day teaching them, and that's about all I have to spare! The rest of the time I need them to be independent. I feel guilty saying that, but that's where we are right now. I actually feel a lot better that others had this problem with Saxon. I am going to really consider a change in math curriculum to Math U See or Teaching Textbooks. Thank you!
My kids are all very visual learners. They learn best and enjoy it best when we watch videos and play games (both board and online). Things that are invaluable to me and I would give up eating meat for a month to pay for it if that is what it took to make sure we had these resources... brainpop and brainpopjr, discovery education streaming (both available on homeschoolbuyerscoop right now) and our netflix subscription.. both streaming and disks.
Vi Hart videos may be a great tool to help them see math as something interesting. It isn't a math program, but the videos are short and you can do one here and there: https://www.khanacademy.org/math/vi-hart There are others also. If you think they would like this I can dig up some more.
We switched to Teaching Textbooks a number of years ago. Both my math-advanced and my math-slow do well with it. My math-hater liked the visuals of it, and it helped that you could change the picture in the corner to do different things as you get the problems correct. I like that they have a hint system and that you get a second shot at most of the problems if you miss the first time. I also like that you can delete a score and make a student redo a lesson if you want. For times tables, you might look at City Creek Press's Times Tables the Fun Way. They have an online version, CD version, workbook version, and flash cards. They use a mnemonic method to learn the tables [they have sample lessons for viewing on their site]. My daughter's very visual, so this program helped her a lot---- and, frankly, it's just more entertaining than plain old flashcards. LOL
We switched from Horizons to Saxon in elementary, and later from Saxon to Teaching Textbooks. Here's a trick that will save you a good deal of complaining from your kids! When we switched from Horizons to Saxon, even though I put her in the book she placed in, my daughter was fussing. "WHY do I have to do this when I already know it!!!!" So I decided to give her the first test, and she scored 100%. The next day, I gave her the second test. Again 100%. I kept this up until her scores dropped from the 90's into the 70's. That's what she didn't know, and that's the place I started her at. I've done that any time I switched. And, when I was using Saxon, I've done it at the beginning of the year, too, because Saxon was written for SCHOOL USE. That means almost the first third of the book is REVIEW, to make sure the entire class is at the same place. Homeschoolers don't need that much review, and it thrills the kids to death to think they can skip the first few chapters.
We use Saxon and it takes us about an hour a day to do the work. I like the program and it seems to fit well for dd. That being said not every program will work with every child. I personally do not like the idea of skipping chapters or problems in Saxon, the program was not designed to work like that. I can understand skipping the warm up problems because those were designed for ps teachers to have the kids work on while they were settling down but I still have dd do them.
The biggest advantage of hs'ing is that no one needs to be tied down to a curriculum. Saxon is designed for a classroom, not for homeschoolers. It can be an excellent tool, but even the writers don't intend for you to do EVERY. SINGLE. PROBLEM. Why waste your time reteaching what a child already knows? We have the flexibility not available to classroom teachers.
Saxon is designed that kids do every single problem. That is how the program works. I am not saying you cannot skip problems but then you are not using the program to it's fullest advantage. You can take any curriculum and dissect it and used pieces in any manner you want but that does not mean that the program will work as designed. Saxon is designed in a spiral approach that incorporates review as a method of reinforcement and incremental learning. By skipping chapters you can be skipping a new presentation of a previously learned concept that will be built upon in later chapters.
Oh, yeah. In the actual lesson, that's so. You really do need to do the "practice" section, because that is doing what the lesson is about. And the other part is simply review of what has been previously taught, something that is needed to keep the skills fresh in the student's mind. That constant review is one of the advantages of the Saxon program. But to actually RE-TEACH a lesson that the kids already know to me is a total waste of time, especially when it's done simply to make sure all students in the class are at the same level. If a kid can score 95-100% on the tests, that's to me a good indication that they know the material from that chapter. If a child knows their times table, I'm OK with going on with double digit mulitiplication. I'm NOT ok with a week reviewing the already-learned facts.
We use Saxon and my kids love it and 2 of my older 4 are NOT mathy (is that a word) in any way. Maybe they are weird. I have them read the lesson and then look over the warm up problems and if they feel they understand they can then do the practice problems. I only make them do the evens or the odds. For example if my dd is working on lesson 23 she does the odd numbered problems, and if she is working on lesson 24 she does the even numbered problems. They never have to do all the problems. I know that Saxon wasn't designed for this method but it is what works for us. When my kids take the tests, if they get below an 90% I make them go back through the chapters and re-do the lessons. Very rarely do they ever have to do this. I also let them play Times Attack and XtraMath whenever they want some computer time. I haven't tried TT, LoF or MUS so I can't really comment on them. Maybe if you only made them do the even problems or the odd problems?? Then you could point out they have 1/2 the work they have been doing. Just a thought.
Thank you all so much for your great advice. It's given me a lot to think about. I really like the Saxon program, but I do think it's not visual enough for my kids. I'm afraid of spending more money on another program because I get the feeling that they are permanently turned off of math, and no curriculum will work. The one disadvantage that moms have to schooling their kids is that their kids know we are the decision makers and at least mine take advantage of that and CONSTANTLY beg me to change things up. Lately they beg me to drop math, that they don't need it. I'm just so sick of the constant struggles and stress over math, a subject that I always enjoyed. Anyway, thanks again! I'll let you know what I decide and if it worked!
This sounds like what I am debating right now. My son complains about Saxon, but I don't know that switching will solve the problem. The things he complains about are things that will be with whatever I choose. He does not want to read, write, or have to solve :lol:. He asked me the other day when he will be done with having to borrow and carry. Uh, hello, now that you have been introduced to it, you will have it the rest of your school days. This thread has helped, I am starting to look around at my options.
We switched Phillip from Saxon to TT, and then we found that he was having problems specific to percents and decimals. So we had the Life of Fred book on those, and put him temporarily in that. Still had problems! I finally decided the problem was Phillip's attitude, not the program!!! Fortunately, his dad is now home during the day and has taken over his math. They finished LOF, but dh is still not happy with his knowledge of percents, so he's giving him lots of practice (worksheets) until he's more comfotable with them. Then he'll probably go back to TT.
I was having trouble with math with my older student. Could not find a curriculum that moved at the right pace. Did not need easier stuff, but slower moving. This year for 7th grade, I bought a challending 8th grade book. We are taking our time going through it. I will use it next year also. I use math-drills website and others to get printables to review concepts due to us stretching things out. We use youtube and Kahn academy for video instruction as needed. It is nice to move slower for us, we can review, and reinforce as we go.
