Need advice dealing with a wiggler and a grumper...

Yesterday was not a very good day here in our homeschool.

I have 2 boys, 11 and 7 (6th and 2nd grades). I am also 8 months pregnant, and I'm sure the hormones factor in to my ability to cope with some of their antics.

The main trouble I'm having is with the 7 y.o. I wonder if he was in school, if he'd be labeled ADHD (though he wasn't when he was in school for pre-K). He is constantly shifting around in his seat, dropping his pencil (I mean, like dropping his pencil between every math problem!), and his focus is SO brief. Example: yesterday we were working on money problems, adding change. It was in his math workbook, but we also used real change as manipulatives. I am sitting there with him as he works. He had to figure out how much money T.J. had vs. how much Zoe had. But instead of counting the change, he's wanting to discuss what T.J. might possibly stand for, and why is Zoe pronounced "zo-E" when usually the "E" that tells the vowel to say its name is silent? You don't say "rop-EEE" when you read the word rope, do you, Mom?

Then if I'm NOT sitting right there with him, he starts doodling in the margins of his paper, making little cartoon drawings and then he is so excited about telling me the story behind them, that getting him back to work usually means I'm harsher than I'd like for my kids to remember their mom/teacher being.

If I only had a dollar for every time I tell that child, "Ok, but let's focus on your work now." ARRRGGGHH!

Anyway he had 20 problems to complete yesterday. He did fine with the first 17 or so. (They were broken up in groups of five that explained the matter from different angles, i.e. basic coin counting, then matching equivalent amounts, etc.) But then at the end, it's like his brain just shut down and he just wouldn't do what he'd been doing so far.

This happens often. He starts making mistakes that I KNOW he knows how to do, because he just showed me 17 times and 3 different ways that he knows how to do it! So yesterday, I talked to him about giving me his best work even when he's tired, encouraged him that we're almost done, etc. And he insists that it IS his best work and ends up in tears and it's just all so frustrating!

So after I chilled out a little last night, I was thinking that maybe he needs more "wiggle room", more play breaks during the day. But then I wonder, is it wrong to cater to him like that? Then that brings in the 11 y.o., who (rightly) is expected to work more independently, and does. But if he sees his brother getting all these breaks to run around the house, etc. then I get the whole "you're so unfair" comments...even though I remind him that what's expected of a 2nd and 6th grader are vastly different.

I'm also having a hard time trying to organize our day so that they're least likely to need my help at the same exact time. How do you guys with more than two juggle that???

Thanks for listening...and for any advice that might help us.

 

What if you switched the schedule around? Maybe let him run around and play outside for 15 or 20 min then come in and do some work, then repeat until all work is done. It might take a bit longer but it could get out the wiggles and giggles.

Also what if while he is running around and playing you could ask him questions about the work he is doing. While he is playing on the swings ask him how much is seven quarters?, How much is seven dimes plus four quarters?,etc.

He would be learning but also working out some of that energy he has so much of. GL

 

Your question "Is it wrong to cater to him like that?" made me think - well isn't that sort of part of why some of us homeschool? I "cater" to my son, who has Aspergers so he can learn in an environment that fits his needs - something public school just couldn't accomplish.

I let him type because handwriting is a problem for him - is that catering? I don't make him do every single problem in a workbook - if he gets the concept - we stop - is that catering?

Does you son have to do 20 problems in one sitting? Could he do 5? or 10? go run around or whatever and then later do the other 10? Why do boys generally not do as well in ps as girls - part of it is most girls can sit still, be quiet, pay attention- all things that are rewarded in ps - while boys need to move (something that is discouraged or results in punishment in ps).

The thing about the doodling characters and him wanting to tell you about the story behind them- maybe he needs a less "schooly" outlet - why not let him draw and have him dictate a story to you or if he can write it himself- that's school! OR if there is a lesson you want him to do tell him that after we do math we will work on your cartoon story?

Just my .02

Jane

 

I don't have any good advice for you. This coming year will be the first time I am officially trying to school two kids and I worry about how to ballance that. It has been hard enough to deal with the preschooler. But I did want to let you know that your discription of your 7 year old sounds EXACTLY like the way my just turned 8 year old 2nd grader acts most days. I too struggle with trying to meet his needs versus training him to deal with some things without always getting the easy way out. Good luck!

 

okay, first of all-- ignore what they say, they would say that to a teacher in the othe rschools too!

Second, give the boys a break, in other words let them wiggle annd grumble, just remind them that "the more they whine the more time' they spend on work.. my ds also 11 had to learn that the morehe whines the more work he ends up doing.. I actually started adding on extra pages for whining one week.. he got the idea!
That and I would send him on ahouse work chore then make him come back to work.. this actually helped him want to do the work!

7 yr old boys do not want to work they want to play, normally!
Make sure your time increments match the attention span for the age.. at 7 I think its like 30-45 mins max. so create math time that is shorter than the 11 yr olds would be, which should be 1 hour. max
Give them bonuses for getting the work done with out problems, complaints or tears. do they have game stations of some sort? Do they like to go bike riding? give these as during school activities for doing a good job for so many days, make it short amount of days at first then stretch it out as they begin getting the idea that they can do it!

 

I'd try do every other problem instead of all 20. I noticed you said that you knew he could do the problems because he'd just shown you 17 times, 3 different ways that he could. Well, isn't that really the only reason for doing the problems to begin with? To show you he can? If he's shown you he can do it, then drop it.

I do that with my wiggle worm 6 year old son and his math. He's exceptionally bright with math. I just don't see the point in having him do 10 word problems that are all basically the exact same thing. He's shown me he gets it, so I'd rather we just move on rather than deal with a power struggle over a few additional problems.

I know a few elementary teachers who let their boys stand up in class. They've just learned that boys need to move more than girls typically do. So, they let them stand at their desks.

A good thing, too, might be to invest in a dry erase board. Let your son get up, go to the board, and do some of the problems there. Let him use his art more in history/reading. Make as much as you can during the day into a hands-on activity. That might help those times when he needs to sit and focus a little more palatable for him in the long run.

 

okay after reading some of the othe rposts, I wanted to add, my ds though not add or any other diagnosed name, was the wiggly boy who wanted to play, I found ways to get into math with him ( our most difficult subject then) and he counted , multiplied and subtracted etc with M and Ms, and cherrios on string, ( they love this! they count it then eat it!) We used out side school as options sometimes, and ran laps between classes some days but he is settling down well now that he is almost 12!
He has his days but he knows the difference between being over tired and can't sit still because of it, and being disobedient , at this age and so I deal with it accordingly.

There are a lot of things that people use for Add kids techniques that I tried to keep my son who loves to run, and plans to be an archetecual engineer for Lego some day. Using Legos is great for math too btw!
In fact one of the bonuses we used was earning legos!

Just relax with them a bit though, because boys will be boys, this does not mean let them take advantage but give them room to grow up. kwim?

 

My 6 year old boy is the same way. We don't stay on one subject through its entirety. He does some of the math, maybe a third, then we switch to phonics and do a third of it, then go back to math. Sometimes we just switch when it becomes apparent he is getting bored.

Also, we take snack breaks or just take the dog for a walk in the back yard and get some fresh air breaks when he starts to get frustrated. lol I like the dog walking one.

As far as the getting distracted by other things in the lesson, look at it this way, he is thinking outside the box which is not a bad thing. Some kids don't even notice the small things like the E in Zoe or wonder what TJ stands for. Use that to your advantage. Explain the E in Zoe. Let him come up with different names that TJ could stand for. Let his creativity run for a little and then bring him back on topic.

The doodling is no big deal use it to your advantage. My son did it too so I bought some art stuff and we have craft time AFTER all of his work is done.

You may think you are "catering" to him but you aren't.

 

Have you visited www.headsupnow.com ? She is a homeschooler of three, two of which are ADD and/or ADHD. She has all kinds of neat ideas for "wigglers". One thing is a weighted beanbag you put on the lap while they work. It's really too heavy to "play" with, and if they try to wiggle too much, the weight helps to remind them. She also has kids sit and do their writing on a exercise ball, which gives them just a little wiggle. (I asked her how she managed to keep her child off the ball, and not on the floor. I could see Faythe.... She got a big grin on her face and said, "The first two weeks, I sat behind her...." And opened her arms wide to indicate actually HOLDING her in place, lol!

 

What about a swivel chair instead of a regular one. Most little kids and adults like to swivel back and fourth when they are fidgety. That way they can swing back and fourth and waste some of that energy. Just a suggestion.

When I was in elementry I was in the regular class because our school district thought the gifted kids should be in the remedial classes to encourage the bad kids to do better. So my teacher would let me do different work like I did all the math problems that had 3's in them with a green colored pencil, all the math problems with 6's in them in red color pencil. Then used regular colored pencil for the others. When I was done I was allowed to doodle for the rest of "math time". Maybe try a different approach.

 

I just had another thought I forgot to add in my earlier post - my son was 9 when we first started homeschooling - he has Aspergers so his brain is wired a little differently and after trial and error I figured out that he HAS to move in order to process certain things. When I gave him a spelling test (verbal) he wanted to walk around while we did it - he told me he can think better that way. He also used to do math in the basement by himself and I could hear him pacing around while he did it. He got his work done while he was pacing. He's now 12 but still on a daily basis he goes down to our basement to pace - he said he likes it and lets him think more clearly than just sitting.

 

Great website...I love the weights.


I'm glad you asked this...I often wonder if my son is more wiggly than others his age.... He is a high energy child, and it always seems 100 times worse when we're around others, though I'm not sure if that's just me....we are always around older kids, so he's the only 1 that can't sit still. I wish I had his energy & excitement, so I try not to break his spirit myself, or take him around others that attempt to. This was our main reason for homeschooling....he has an undeniable desire to learn everything about everything.....we feared sending him to school would break his spirit, thus making learning a chore and not a fun and exciting thing to do. So I guess what I'm saying is in reference to what was said above..... catering is fine, that's the right you have by being a homeschooler. The homeschool police aren't going to arrest you for teaching your son in the manner that suits him best. I understand not wanting him to think he's getting his way, but if you choose to cater without doing it mid-lesson, I don't think it'll turn into a "battle" he'll think he's won. I'd just adjust each day, and learn what's going to work best for the next. That's what I plan to do anyway, talk to me in a month lol

Thanks to everyone with the great advice, this thread is filled with ideas that help me as well.

 

No advise...just sympathy. I'm dealing with my own just-turned 8 grumper. In fact, he is currently banished to his room where is to be sitting on his bed not touching a toy. We do have good days, but it seems that the days and maybe weeks after a break (and we just had about a month break with camp, visitors, etc), he's bear. Let me know if you stumble on anything that works.

 

You might post Philippians 2:14: Do all things without complaining (grumbling, whining, fussing, sighing, rolling eyes) or disputing (arguing). That, btw, is the Mom's Amplified Version, lol!!! When they started in, I would ask, "What does your verse say? Are you arguing?" "No, BUT...." "Are you arguing?" "No, but...." "Are you arguing?" It wasn't long before they realized that ANY TIME they said the word BUT I considered it an argument! As far as fussing, my children were permitted to fuss all they wanted to...IN THEIR ROOM where I didn't have to listen to it!

 

Oh my gosh, do you have MY 7 year old son??? You described my son to a "T" even down to the doodles in the margin and making up stories about them. One thing I did was move his chair away from the table. He does better if he stands up. Sometimes he has to lay down to solve a problem, then he comes back and writes the answer in. He does better when he get's breaks between subject. We do Math, then go have a snack, then do phonics, then I work with little sis, then we do handwriting etc. etc. I do give him concessions because that's part of why we homeschool. I want to fit the school to him, rather than him to the school, as long as he is learning. He really hated handwriting last year, so I didn't push him. I modified assignments so he wrote only a little bit, and we did the rest orally. This year he is already doing much better with handwriting (we've only had two days of school so far). I'm sure he will catch up eventually!

Do you also have difficulty getting him to sit down to eat? We have to remind him "bottom in chair" all the time. If we have a picnic on the living room floor, he is eating while doing head stands and sommersaults!

 

Thanks to all of you for the excellent suggestions! Today went well...I gave him a few extra breaks and cut back a little on the math.

I also decided not to freak out if he wanted to stand while he worked, which he DID! :lol: It was actually kind of funny to see how emphatically he answered "YES!" when I asked if he'd rather stand than sit while he did his work. Poor kiddo...I wish I'd known or thought about that sooner.

I also learned today that he reads better if he's not trying to hold the book at the same time. I wonder if that's another of those things peculiar to wiggly boys? It's like it's too much to concentrate on reading aloud AND hold the book still at the same time. If I hold it for him, he's able to just read.

I knew boys were different critters, but it's amusing how much they teach me that every single day. :lol:

Thanks again for the input...I am sure it helped more than just me!

 

my ds likes to lay down with the book on whatever surface he is on when he is reading or sit with it on his lap or table not in his hands, so hmm, maybe?

 

You can try one of those cook book stands they fit books perfectly or a music stand so he doesn't have to hold the book and can stand and wiggle while reading it.

Glad today was better for you.

 

That's my 8-year old to a T! I'm pretty sure some of it is just the age.

I have found that giving her fewer problems is better in math. I used to give her a whole page and then she'd just get upset. If I give her a page with 8 problems on it, then a little while later give her a page with 8 more problems on it that seems to not overwhelm her so much and we're doing the SAME NUMBER of math problems, just broken up a little bit.

My 8YO likes to change the subject when she doesn't understand something. She'll suddenly look around and say 'what's that?' and point to something else. Or talk about something off subject. So that's my cue to say "what don't you understand?" and there is ALWAYS something on that page that she didn't quite understand whether it's a word she doesn't know or a confusing direction. Jiggly or wiggly, it ALWAYS means there's something they didn't get.

With frustration we'll take a quick break. I used to give her play breaks but then she'd get interested in playing and not want to come back and work. So I started giving her "art breaks" where she's allowed to color or play with clay or do something artistic. Or we do "gym breaks" where she'll do 20 jumping jacks or run around the yard. That way we're breaking up the seatwork but she's not off playing. It has helped a lot!

 

Faythe would work well with "reading breaks", too. She'd have a melt down, and if I could send her to her room to read and listen to music, she could regroup and return.