Help! My 15 yo dd HATES math!!! She did terrible in math in PS and since HS she has improved some but her multiplication skills are still far behind. We worked on fractions, decimals, and percentages last year and I tried to just move into pre-algebra because, according to the "school experts" she should already be doing algebra. I guess I've been trying to keep up with the "school Joneses" instead of listening and paying attention to where my daughter is in math. I homeschooled my ds for two years before graduating him early and he failed rudimentary college algebra (a "C" at our local community college constituted failing) and had to repeat it twice, although the second time he didn't do any better that the first time. The common denominator in both of my children is me so it appears I must point the finger of blame on myself. Math has never been my strong suit and my students are no better than me; sometimes they have even been worse! :cry: Any advice you can give me would be GREATLY appreciated. Thank you!
If she really hates math then I would highly recommend Teaching Textbooks but also try some of the "Life of Fred" books as a supplement. They are not "schooly" type books and present math in a unique, different way that may appeal to her.
I agree with Sommer, get Teaching Textbook they are wonderful, worth the money and they do work well.
Does your daughter seem to fair better at geometry than at the algebraic portions? Does she seem to favor highly visual media [e.g. computer, TV, books with lots of pictures]? Does she enjoy puzzles or building things or artistic endeavors [art, music]? If so, she may be a visual spatial learner. Here's a link where you can find out more info on this kind of learner: http://www.visualspatial.org/ My DD is horrible with math. At 7, she still doesn't grasp the concept of simply adding '1' to something. However, she flies through the geometry sections of her math workbooks. I don't even usually have to explain any of it to her.
First of all I would tell you to stop beating yourself up and don't panic. It's not too late. All kids learn differently and at different paces. I think it's important that you take the time now to make sure your dd has the basics down. Does she know her multiplication facts? Math builds upon principals and if you don't know those basic principals (add,subtract,multiply,and divide), it sets you up to fail at higher levels of math. IMO...Your dd really needs to know how to do these before moving on to algebra. Have you tested her to see where she's at in math? There are a lot of online sources for doing this. Perhaps you could try some online math games or computer games that reinforces multiplication skills. There's a lot of Internet games out there that are free that can help in this area. Maybe a change in textbooks would help. The Teaching Textbooks others mentioned here are wonderful books. Pricey, but well worth the money. I would also like to mention a book that I keep in my "teacher" library. It's basically my "Math Bible" Math On Call - A Mathematics Handbook This is a wonderful go-to book that is great for math methods and terms. It is especially helpful if math is not your forte. (((((((HUGS))))))) LR
We use the math on call, there are actually a few of them on the other math subjects. I think we even have one for algebra, but I can't remember. Nor can I find them since I'm still unpacking from our move.
If it were me, I'd get a tutor if I could afford it. Be your girl's advocate! My Jeannie was tested back in March and scored 50 points behind other kids in our state's standardized testing. I decided to start all over, doing very basic practice in addition to our regular work. I'm talking drills adding 1,2, and 3 to a number. I did these each day till she could do maybe 15 problems in 2 minutes. I used our Hooked on Math books, copying pages to use as drills. Don't be afraid to use manipulatives if you have to. She might be 15, but already she's 15, kwim? I'd be beside myself trying to catch her up, cause I'm like you, math isn't my thing. For multiplication practice, try Timez Attack. It's free. By her being 15, you might need to go the tutor route just to not insult her with youngish ideas. My dd is 8, so these things work with her.
Becky, a tutor is a great idea! So are manipulatives and mental math. I still throw these in w/ my dc on occasion. LR
Does your DD actually need algebra for college admittance? I ask because I'm not American & in my country my child doesn't need math to graduate & go to uni. We have hit this same wall. She is a visual/spatial learner & all her strengths are in the arts ~ particularly music. She is a highly gifted musician. With our umbrella school we have agreed to backtrack over her basic math skills for this year & next & then move her into *financial* math stuff ~ the sort of math she will need in everyday situations. She will graduate with a math subject but bypass the stuff that was driving both of us insane. If you do actually need algebra in the States I'd go with a tutor.
This is a homeschooling nightmare to have spent years hs's your children and not have them up to a basic level on a cornerstone subject like math. I am really interested to know how this happened so I don't make similar mistakes. #1 I hope you don't mind me asking but what kind of a schedule did you have? #2 How long was math taught per day? #3 What math curriculum did you use? ((Help! My 15 yo dd HATES math!!! She did terrible in math in PS and since HS she has improved some but her multiplication skills are still far behind.)) If multiplication skills are not up to par then any higher math will be like hitting your students head against a brick wall. Algebra, fractions, percentages, etc... use multiplication heavily. I recommend that you get her basic math skills up to par. ((We worked on fractions, decimals, and percentages last year and I tried to just move into pre-algebra because, according to the "school experts" she should already be doing algebra. I guess I've been trying to keep up with the "school Joneses" instead of listening and paying attention to where my daughter is in math. I homeschooled my ds for two years before graduating him early and he failed rudimentary college algebra (a "C" at our local community college constituted failing) and had to repeat it twice, although the second time he didn't do any better that the first time. The common denominator in both of my children is me so it appears I must point the finger of blame on myself. Math has never been my strong suit and my students are no better than me; sometimes they have even been worse! Any advice you can give me would be GREATLY appreciated. Thank you!)) #4 When you graduated your son early what level of math was he at i.e. algebra 1, algebra 2, etc...? In the math curriculum that you used did your son do well on the tests? #5 "rudimentary college algebra" What level of algebra is this? Intro to algebra or algebra 1? A "c" is a passing grade at my local college but in reality if you get a "c" you didn't really understand or learn enough to move on in a course like math as it is accumulative. If you get a c grade you didn't understand about 30% of the class which is a recipe for disaster in math when u get promoted to a higher level. I am assuming that the problem's that your children are experiencing are curriculum and study habit related. I recommend 2 hours of math study per day for a normal schedule and for someone in math distress I would recommend no less. 6 days per week with math study being the first subject of the morning. I would recommend getting started into a quality math curriculum that has a proven track record. I recommend Saxon curriculum. Summer sales are on and new home school packs are at used book prices. Personally I don't care for the dvd and computer solutions ( for math) as they seem to be somewhat of a babysitter and very high cost solutions. There really is no good substitute for a book, a piece of paper and a pencil. I don't think things should be candy coated. Your daughter is in trouble with a core class but she still has the time with proper discipline and the rights materials she can come through this with a quality education at the end of the high school tunnel.
Hm, I have tutored in elementary math and algebra. I think that two hours of math study per day would to stunt just about anyone in math with the possible exception of that child, who already really--I do mean REALLY--loves it. I was one of those children, but two hours a day...? I will tell you a secret from a tutoring standpoint. It is not going to be curriculum that does it. Any one math curriculum can work, particularly at that age. The problem lies elsewhere. What can turn a child on in math is enthusiasm. If you love math, your child may not like it, but cannot help but get caught up in your own enthusiasm for it. If you don't have that enthusiasm, then finding help outside like a tutor or a class may be the best thing you can do. My own daughter had a problem getting subtraction and I tried various methods, then we had an unscheduled break in homeschooling (sick family member needing help) and I really took a look at how I had been structuring our homeschool, particularly in math. I probably was showing my frustration with my daughter more than I would ever have done with a child I was tutoring and why? Because she did not share my love for math. Why did she not share it? Now that was the question that led back to me and my attitude while she learning it. The combination of me changing my attitude and her going through some kind of mental growth spurt in the year has changed this whole thing. I have found a common factor in homeschooling mothers with some exceptions, of course. Most of them do not like math even though they see the need to teach it to their children. I am not trying to criticize anyone, just sharing my observations that the children who tend to struggle the most with math are often being taught by a parent who has no love for math either. And I agree with CelticRose, unless your child is on a career path requiring higher math, a basic understanding of algebra and geometry is about all he will need to get by in the world. Business math or accounting is far more important to know for most people and I think it should be a required math course in public schools. So, what if the child can do algebra, but doesn't know how to do a budget? Just some thoughts....
"Just Getting By" ++++++++ "a basic understanding of algebra and geometry is about all he will need to get by in the world." Herein lies the difference in our approach. I want a student to have the best possible chance for success. I doubt that any parent that has taken the time and spent treasure to homeschool wants their children to just get by. This is a defeatest attitude that is very dangerous to a child's mind. You are really saying to the child you are too dumb for this so u can just barely make it. let's stop teaching you because you just can't learn math. I would be very careful about letting a student know that they are being taught to just get by. The idea of just teaching a student to just get by is to teach them to be mediocre. If you want your child to just get by why would you home school? Just send them to public school and you have just about assured your child that their education has set them up "to just get by." I just disagree whole heartedly with the idea of teaching "to just get by." Take hs algebra and hs geometry as an example. These subjects have been around thousands of years. Are the students of today not able to learn subjects that were sucessfully taught thousands of years ago? I say no to this question. So what has changed if students are struggling in this area? I believe the parents are not scheduling the student enough time focused on math for the subject to be learned to level that the information is retained permanently. "So, what if the child can do algebra, but doesn't know how to do a budget?" A budget is basic math. Everyone that I have ever known that needed a budget had the math skills. There problems were more mental i.e. really didn't care if they over spent and put the bills on the credit card. You either are a responsible person with your finances or you are not. People that are careful with their money usually have more money and the people that are wasteful usually have dozens of credit cards and financial problems. Michael Jackson was a wasteful spender. He made hundreds of millions of dollars. He has had financial problems because of his over spending. The state of california shut him down for not paying workman comp at one point. Doesn't matter how much money you make it's your attitude that makes the difference when it comes to finances. Yes the above are my opinions based on my experience. I am not trying to criticize anyone and I find debating this math subject valuable and worth discussing. I hope you get this straightened out for your child's sake. Please keep us informed about how you handled this problem.
I just wanted to take a minute to encourage and lift you up. I prayed that God will give you wisdom and discernment as you work through math with your daughter. The ladies here have given you some great advice. When I first brought my oldest home from public school, (we started 4th grade homeschooling), she didn't have her multiplication or division math facts down. We started off using Abeka Math and after a week of using it, I realized she couldn't move on. We took 2-3 weeks doing nothing in math but math facts. She didn't like me holding up flash cards (which I still did on occassion), but I found some online (I was going to list them and forgot that I'm not allowed yet. If you PM me, I can send you some websites.) We did this daily for about a half hour each day. In about 2 weeks she was ready to pick up the textbook and go. (I was afraid she would get behind in our "text", but she finished the book without any problems that year. I'm so glad we stopped and worked on those facts and that's the beauty of homeschooling, we can stop when we need to so they don't get left behind.) I was told at a homeschool conference this weekend (in a high school seminar) that algebra is sooo important. If necessary, take 2 years to get through it. If they don't have a solid foundation in Algebra 1, they'll struggle in the rest of the higher maths. I'm a math nerd, so I think that helped. (ex: When I introduced fractions, I said, "Oh, this is so cool...look at this." My husband looked at me like I was crazy and walked off , but I do think an enthusiastic attitude can help, but just making the time to sit with them and work through something until they get it makes a difference. Sometimes someone different explaining it helps. I have explained some things over and over and we hit a wall, Dad walks in and tells her the same thing, but she gets it. Maybe an older homeschool student (a neighbor, someone at church, or an older sibling) could help with the tutoring. I've heard great things about the Teaching Textbooks. There are some great curriculums out there that have a DVD teacher for them to view before each lesson (Math U See, The Teaching Company) See if there are any homeschoolers in your area that have something like this you could borrow to see if it will work for her. I know that you are going to get through this little rough patch with no problem. Be encouraged and don't be afraid to ask people around you for help. I'll be praying for you! Let us know how she's doing. You can hit those math facts now and I'll bet she'll be ready to go by the end of August! Be encouraged, Patty
If you have Netflix, The Teaching Company's Basic Math series is available through them. I think there area few disks from the set they are missing but they have most of them. They also have "Standard Devient" disks that are good too. I hadn't thought to reccomend virtual flashcards.. but there are some out there that are great! I forget just which ones we used, but we did play with some of them and had fun!
MrEinstein, I respectfully disagree with much of what you have written--not all--but I am not going to go point for point, I will only say it seems to me that it lacks flexibility while having high expectations. From my point of view, your post seems to have more elements of being an advertisement for the Robinson Curriculum than a mere suggestion. I also very strongly disagree that Saxon is a self teaching curriculum--it was a curriculum originally written for schools where there is not the one-on-one teaching approach and so it may be meant to be that way to some extent, but I have known too many children who don't learn math while using Saxon. There simply is no "one fits all" approach in math. I believe math is a very important subject, but it is NOT necessary for every child to know algebra. I agree that the logic practiced through solving algebraic applications is highly beneficial skill, but it can be developed in other ways. If one needs higher math for college acceptance, it obviously should be learned, otherwise just knowing basic math is quite sufficient for most. Honestly, how many of us use algebra, geometry, or calculus since we have been out of school, unless it is part of our job or we are teaching it to our children? The point you made about the falling test scores in math is a public school expectation and should be a concern in that environment. However, that is not even a consideration to me when I am homeschooling my own child. All I am concerned about is helping my child be challenged while working towards her greatest potential. In my opinion, even a fifteen year old does not have to spend two hours a day on math to catch up. Catch up to what? A standard that some children will not meet regardless of how many hours a day they do math work. There is no way that a child who hates math is going to learn it by prolonging what he/she sees as torture. There needs to be some kind of pleasure that child can association with just doing math work itself.
((((((MrEinstein, I respectfully disagree with much of what you have written--not all--but I am not going to go point for point, I will only say it seems to me that it lacks flexibility while having high expectations.))))))))) Hi seekingmylord. Of course my post is full of my opinions and born from my experiences and not meant to belittle any other ideas.. When it comes to the math curriculum and a young person who is far behind it does seem to imply that some serious study of math is necessary if the goal is to get her up to a level with her peers or beyond is the short remaining time. Obviously it is necessary to move her back to a level where she totally understands math and then move on from that point. If she is at a level she understands then she should gain confidence in her math abilities. Then she should be able to progress rather rapidly with a good schedule of study. Getting her math level up to her peers will be a great accomplishment and if she does that she should be proud of herself. Math isn't all puppies and cotton candy but if properly understood it can be very gratifieing. I am not sure how flexible one has to be with a subject like math. A book, a pencil, apiece of paper and a quiet area of study is all that is required. Use a computer, software and games that talk if you want and I doubt that the test scores will be above the book and pencil method. If I was a betting man I would bet that higher average test scores are attained by the historical method than the new computer method. Heck alot of Archimedes best work was done drawn in sand and studied. (((((((((From my point of view, your post seems to have more elements of being an advertisement for the Robinson Curriculum than a mere suggestion. I also very strongly disagree that Saxon is a self teaching curriculum--it was a curriculum originally written for schools where there is not the one-on-one teaching approach and so it may be meant to be that way to some extent, but I have known too many children who don't learn math while using Saxon. There simply is no "one fits all" approach in math.))))))) The text book explains all of the math theory and gives examples and then practice problems of the information to be learned. So yes everything needed for successful self study is in the book. The Robinson Curriculum is really a modern example about the classis way americans used to study as children. Take Abraham Lincoln as an example. He was home schooled in the Robinson method. which is get the highest quality books and spend some time studying them and great results can be attained. Presidents of the USA have been made using the RC method. Of course back then it was just the way people studied now it's rare for log cabin home studies, so that type of study can be called Robinson method or some might say classical method. Use any name you want. Yes Saxon books were sold to public schools. But many thousands of homeschoolers are using saxon books and basically self teaching. Many who use saxon texts have had spectacular results. In this particular instance the reinforcement method is just what the doctor ordered for a student that is struggling imho. The evidence is overwhelming that saxon can be sucessfully self taught or used in homeschools. Disagree if you want but the facts speak for themselves. If you are not learning math while studying a saxon math book (or any other quality math curriculum) the problem is elsewhere. ((((I believe math is a very important subject, but it is NOT necessary for every child to know algebra. ))))) Algebra is the level above basic math. Algebra usually starts in 8th grade. If many students don't need algebra then schools can quit teaching math in 7th grade by that logic. If math is important then it should be studied seriously. Which kids don't need a high quality math education? The kids without math smarts will survive. McDonalds needs lots of help. The kids with math smarts will be in engineering school. Or the kids that don't have much education usually get the lowpaying jobs from the rich ones. ((((((In my opinion, even a fifteen year old does not have to spend two hours a day on math to catch up. Catch up to what? A standard that some children will not meet regardless of how many hours a day they do math work. There is no way that a child who hates math is going to learn it by prolonging what he/she sees as torture. There needs to be some kind of pleasure that child can association with just doing math work itself.))))))))) I disagree with just about everything in this last paragraph. I want my children to have the best education possible or else why homeschool. If I wanted my children to be average or worse I would just send them to the government schools. Saxon has a "9" book curriculum that most students finish with by the time they are 14 to 16 yrs. of age. The last book is calculus. When my children get done with calculus they will have the highest education that I can provide in math. My goal is met in this area. Subscribe to lower standards and more expensive curriculum if you want to. I choose another way. On the subject of the college not using a c as a passing grade, in the placement test I believe that is correct. 85% or better score is used for placement tests. For the purposes of math a c is not a passing grade for daily assignments. That means up to 30% of the lesson is not understood. If a student is not getting a's on daily homework then they are not understanding enough of the curriculum. The students should be trying to be as mistake free as possible. I will use saxon as an example as it is well known and I am familiar with it. There are 30 math problems to accomplish each lesson (alg. 1). If the information is understood a student should be relatively mistake free for 30 questions. If 30 (one lesson) or 60 (2 lessons) questions a day is too much for an american highschool student to accomplish then I think our standards are far too low. Yep all of the above is my opinion. Have high standards and use top notch curriculum and your results will be high. Have low standards and use low quality curriculum and little study time and the results will be lower.
