Not really homeschool news, but another reason to homeschool

http://www.educationnews.org/ednews_today/100159.html

As long as it's not Christian, I guess they think it's OK. I'm glad a mother's instincts convinced her to go along on this trip as a chaperone.

 

I'm curious as to why the headline states that this is a terrorist mosque. There was nothing in the body of the article that said anything about terrorism.

Anyhow, I have mixed feelings about this. I mean, on one hand, the school has no right to prevent the students from praying if they want to. On the other,... well... there really is no other. ha!

 

Did you watch the video? There are terrorist ties to the place. I'm mixed as well. Part of me says this was "just" another field trip to learn about another culture and their beliefs. The other part of me says that these children were following instructions because they didn't know any better and didn't want to be embarrassed. I'd be upset if my son participated in a Muslim prayer and I wasn't informed that he'd be in that setting. I dunno... mixed feelings.

 

The video explained that the guy who founded the mosque is in prison for 26 years for Al Qaida actions, and the owners/biggest contributors' connections with terrorism.

Even Jewish kids participated? How must their parents feel? I know how I'd feel if my kids were asked to participate! And how I'd feel if they did...

 

I am shocked that the school would take a field trip to any religious site in the first place. Religion is so taboo in public schools. But to take them to a mosque, feed them the religion, and ask them to participate really bothers me. It's one thing to teach tollerance, but I think this went to far.

 

Ooops. Usually (at least with our local news) the article is quite literally just a transcript of the video when they are both there. So I assumed....

K. Makes sense, now.

 

I really don't have a problem with them visiting a religious site, IF they were permitted to visit other religious sites as well. To me, it's a cultural thing. It's OK to study a culture, and religion is part of that culture. However, to pick a mosque with ties to terrorism is not acceptable. And having the children pray is also unacceptable. I would rather have it explained that this is what they believe, this is what they are doing and WHY. No judgement as to the right or wrong of it, but no taking part with them (since most of the children wouldn't believe that way to begin with).

 

I agree that there are valid reasons to visit a variety of religious sites. In our studies this year, we plan to take the boys to a Jewish service. I think schools who think outside the box like this are good.

I agree that this particular mosque was a bad idea. Very bad idea.

However, on the issue of prayer, if you disallow the children from joining in if it is their choice (on their initiation) that they do so, well, that's bad. First of all, no school official should have the right to tell the children that they can't pray. Period. Second, well, I guess that's it, really. NO SCHOOL OFFICIAL should be able to have ANY say, whatsoever, in ANY situation, about if a child can or can't pray. That's a bad, bad precedent.

 

Unacceptable for sure. Why would the teachers sit idly by and allow a child known to be Jewish to participate in prayers in a religion that claims Jews wanted to kill their prophets. Why did that mother not shout from the rooftops that it was got to stop! More over it goes to prove that religion as lacking in their own judgement allowing minors to participate in a prayer that isn't of their own religion without their parents consent.
As to the school not stating that this would be taking place it happens all the time that the school forms aren't as defined as they should be. Another reason we can all be thankful we homeschool our young and impressionable kids.

 

When I was a kid, we had to have signed permission slips. Each one stated where we were going, and why. If it wasn't signed, you didn't go.

 

My problem is, if this had been a Catholic Church or a Baptist service, this field trip NEVER would have happened. We seem to have a slanted view of what "separate of church and state" mean in education - it seems to apply only to separation of CHRISTIAN churches from the state - other religions are OK... This stuff bugs me because I am so tired of MY religion being demonized in deference to alleged tolerance to other religions that are NOT tolerant. It is either all or nothing people -- you can't have your cake and eat it too . . .

 

Because teachers CAN NOT legally stop a child from praying, no matter the circumstances. I don't know the laws in Canada, but in the US teachers are strictly forbidden from interfering in situations like this. If they had the right to forbid prayer on a field trip (even in this context), then they'd also have the right to forbid prayer in the cafeteria before a meal. And that is simply a no no (not that some teachers haven't done it, but then they are breaking the law and parents have legal recourse).

Now, as to the leaders of the prayer, I agree that it was stupid of them to let the kids participate. But, not knowing the intricacies of Islam, it's possible that it made sense to them in some way. I know that if a Jewish child was willing to participate in a Christian prayer, my pastor certainly wouldn't discourage it.

 

I certainly understand your frustration. I feel the same way a lot.

 

The last part you address here is the core issue - obviously your pastor wouldn't discourage it, because he is hoping for a conversion. Since the schools took the children to the site, allowed them to participate in this prayer, it does seem like they are encouraging an attempt at conversion to Islam, EVEN if it's not their intent. The school essentially condoned an attempt at conversion.

I think ALL children should learn about different cultures and religions, but I am not going to encourage my children to pray to it. I think that is where the divergence really comes into play. IMHO.

 

The problem isn't that he prayed, it's that he was allowed to pray in a situation where people have ideals that put down his current religion. I don't think that would be the case in your church as it is Christian. We don't condemn Jewish people for their beliefs.
Regardless I am not sure if prayer in this situation would be allowed in Canada. I think maybe the teachers aren't allowed to interfer but they sure could have made the parents aware of the outcome of the trip.
Yes permission slips are signed. But often they don't clearly state all of what is involved. For example. I got one when my kids were in JK. Would you like your child to participate in the safe kids lessons. We will have atomically correct dolls and be talking about using correct language for body parts. Uh well I wasn't sure if that was necessary with a group of four years olds..but ok. But when I learned later that it was telling them a whole lot of facts that kids didn't need to hear I wasn't too impressed with the schools ability to get the message across in their permission slip. That kind of thing happens a lot. Will you allow your child to go across the street to see a play put on by 'abc play group.' Well what is the play about and how is being presented?
School should be held accountable in some way. And further parents should NOT sign up to things if they aren't fully aware of the outcomes.

 

According to what I heard on Fox News this morning, IF I UNDERSTOOD IT CORRECTLY this class was studying several different cultures/religions, and had visited a Catholic church, I think maybe a Protestant one, and a Jewish synagogue, possibly another I can't remember. (I think there were five altogether - definitely Catholic and Jewish were mentioned specifically.) But I'm guessing that they could have visited a mosque without visiting this specific one with terrorist ties, and I'm guessing they could have visited at some other time of day than noon prayer time!

ETA: found this on Fox website:
The trip was part of a social studies course, "Enduring Beliefs in the World Today," and also included trips to a synagogue, a gospel musical performance, and a meeting with Hindu religious leaders, Wong told the Globe.

 

That is something I would have been OK with. BUT I think that as teachers, it might have been stated that we were going as OBSERVERS ONLY. And as such, it would be appropriate to tell them the should not be praying AT THIS TIME. If they felt they wanted to pray, they could do so quietly "in their heart". And that would be across the board at ALL the churches.

 

I'm with you on that, Jackie. When I was a kid, we took a field trip to New Orleans, including the big cathedral. We were told that girls must cover their heads when inside. We were told to be quiet, in case there were people inside praying. We were told we were there to observe the architecture/art (which as visitors to any old cathedral know, was quite impressive!). A lot of the kids in my class were Catholic, so only the architecture was impressive in the sense of being unfamiliar to them. We were NOT there during a worship service. I can't remember now, but it's possible that some of the Catholic kids did genuflect and cross themselves, but nothing at all in an organized fashion, just individuals.

 

I agree with you Jackie -- it is problematic because it was not limited to observation.

 

They were talking about it on the radio today. According to this story, someone from the mosque was doing the tour (which is t be expected). But this person was saying that Allah is the only god, etc. While I don't have a problem with this person presenting Moslem beliefs (which is why the kids were there in the first place!), they should have said, "As Moslems, we believe that.... This is how it is similar/different from Christianity/Judism." I would say the same thing if the children were taken to a Christian church. While it would be OK for the pastor to say "We believe that Jeus is the son of God and the ONLY way to heaven", I would not have been comfortable for him to say that to a school group WITHOUT the "We believe...." first.