I agree not everyone should go. But if you don't go you should be sending a substitute. Prayer is always needed.
Yes. There are many African missionaries in Britain too. Even in this area, though, there are Biblical principles we overlook. The role of evangelism is meant for the local church, not outsiders. When there is no local church, there is a need for outsiders, but why do we send missionaries to countries with hundreds of local churches? Often, those outsiders get in the way, undermine local activities, and unwittingly violate local culture. While visiting Asia, I learned how the church in one country had to go underground because a Western team decided to go on a 'missions' trip there. It caused all kinds of havoc. Instead, according to the NT pattern, we should establish links between our churches. Where possible (and it may not be possible), giving should be from church leaders to church leaders. Anyway, that's another topic.
There-in lies the rub, doesn't it? Because if American Christians spend all of their resources evangelizing the rest of the world, there WON'T be opportunities for unsaved Americans to hear the gospel. (Not to mention that the Bible clearly tells us that Creation itself preaches the gospel message. Therefore that 76 year old man dying across the world may not have heard the name of Jesus, but he's been introduced to the Father.... Not that it's an excuse for not doing missions work, but we are often so caught up in what we are/aren't doing that we forget what the Bible says God can do with our without our help.)
Just a note about what is excessive: - I agree with Seeking about there being nothing wrong with making money. Our society is based on this, and it leads to the greatest well-being of society in general. It's how we put that wealth to use that's the issue, and that depends on the situation. If we earn more, we can contribute more. The temptation, though, is that when we earn more, we feel we have the right to keep more. This is a difficult temptation to overcome. - It may be quite OK for a person with the resources to spend $30,000, say, on a vehicle, because it is used in turn to help others. Others may reason that $30,000 now means less money spent maintaining a vehicle over 10 years. But can the same be achieved with half that budget? Is part of the purchase a luxury? That's when it becomes difficult, because that amount could have helped literally hundreds of needy believers at home and overseas. Some things, such as the $300,000 vehicle, are nothing but extravagance. The $30,000 vehicle may or may not be; it depends on the circumstances and intent. - It's probably fair to say that almost all of us err on the side of unnecessary spending. There is so much that we could be doing if we took the Bible's statement about 'equality' seriously (and I understand that not everyone agrees on the interpretation of 'equality'). Even $5 can save a child's life. In everyday terms, what does $5 mean to us? Do we think of it as a life-saver? - We are wasting a wonderful opportunity to show the world just how much our Lord means to us. The disparity between rich and poor is an opportunity for us to give sacrificially, and voluntarily, and hence establish bonds of love among believers. While we shouldn't give to be seen to give (which is pride), the 'church' in general would be seen to be following the Lord's command. To those viewing from the outside: What (or who) is it that motivates people to sacrifice in such a way? They could afford all kinds of niceties, so why do they not take advantage of their wealth for personal gain? - Our giving should be unconditional, just as the love of God is unconditional. This is not always possible because, if we give to support a child, then the condition is that the child is supported. The general principle is, though, that local church leaders know local needs and are the best people to distribute funds. This is how it worked in the time of Acts. Yes, I mentioned some groups that help people directly (heifer.com and the like), but, as I wrote then, I wouldn't want to undermine the Bible's pattern for giving.
And yet he can be saved...through Jesus, but then I am in the Dallas Willard camp on that one--and this is where we are going to go way off topic! Dallas Willard stated: I am not going to stand in the way of anyone whom God wants to save. I am not going to say “he can’t save them.” I am happy for God to save anyone he wants in any way he can. It is possible for someone who does not know Jesus to be saved. But anyone who is going to be saved is going to be saved by Jesus: “There is no other name given under heaven by which men can be saved." A part of me cannot accept that God let so many millions died without any chance to be saved just because the Message had not yet spread that far. In Hebrews it is discussed how men of the OT found favor with God before Jesus, I don't think that part changed personally, but even they were saved through Jesus. Perhaps eternity is not time without end but a realm outside of our timeline, in which the present, past, and future are all in the same moment from our limited point of view. If so, the sacrifice Jesus made has always been, but it happened at a specific time in our perspective. This stuff will mess with your head....
In the end, we believe in a merciful God. If he saved people in ways currently unknown to us, we'll end up rejoicing. Isn't it a matter of trust? I'm convinced that it's exactly that - and the most recent theories of science point to it - but I'm not going there for now!
Again, God does not let anyone die without "hearing" of Him. The scriptures clearly state that Creation itself preaches of the Lord, so that no man has an excuse not to be saved. Missions is icing on the Message Cake, really.
Look, it has never been my position that we all turn Amish. I have no problem with getting a job and earning money...even lots of money. I also don't think anyone here suggested that having a job was excessive. I think this whole line of conversation started with the statement that we all have excess to some degree. Sure there were radical suggestions on how to cut back...which I still don't see how that conflicts with spreading the gospel..or was Paul a millionaire? You see my point. God will do the prospering and the providing. You sometimes have no idea when or where those things come. If you have never experienced something coming out of no where... I am sorry. I have been blessed to see things come out of thin air...in a manner of speaking. Once...when my dh was promoted, his paychecks were not getting directly deposited in our account. We are not the type of family who can live a month without pay. We were down to our last dime. I TOLD NO ONE...because this was a temporary situation. I may have mentioned it online...out of frustration..but I told no one who knows me personally. We knew the pay in full would come...so this was just a glitch and not a crisis. Well...out or no where, I get a call from a local store to say that I had two gift certificates for $25 each from some unnamed source. Whoever did this would have to have known my full name and a phone number. So, out of thin air God provided.
Yes, those did appear but through the context of giving. She gave all she had to the man of God. God provided for Elijah through a person.
God always uses people...it is our honor and our way to worship the Lord. Embassy...you have a true heart for lost souls and a love for the Lord. I am so sorry if this thread seems like we are all being combative with you. I know what it's like to feel like the only one holding a position or a line of thinking. I know the ladies here are just having a discussion and a causal debate...but even knowing that being the one with a different point of view still feels like you are being singled out. I hope that is not case with you. Not accusing you of being sensitive...just making sure since it feels like everyone is responding at the same rate of speed. lol.
I disagree. Creation reveals God, yes. But it does not preach the Gospel. Acts 17 " 29"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. 30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead." Romans 10 as well " "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." 14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
But that wasn't out of thin air. They came from unnamed sources. The unnamed sources were people. We don't always know where money or providence comes, but it does come through people. God uses people to provide.
Agree. The people who have not heard, miss out on the blessing of having the reassurance and to give this reassurance to others in this life, but if God wants to save that person who has not known Jesus to accept Him in the way we are told it must be done...hey, He is God. I am totally cool with whatever He chooses to do!
But it wouldn't be God who let it happen. It would be the church. Kubla Khan wanted 100 missionaries to be send to his lands to teach him and his people about Christianity. The pope sent 2 that backed out before they even arrived. This wasn't God's fault.
