Ugh. Really tired of parents who actually egg their kids on to MISBEHAVE. Then again, we are those really Mean Parents who make our kids wait until we've gotten up before they start opening Christmas presents, expect them to open them in a manner that shows some amount of appreciation for THAT gift (instead of MORE MORE MORE!!!), make them thank people for birthday presents AND read cards, and don't let them stand too close to people in the grocery store (even if those people assure Mean Mom that it's quite all right, really). If my kids have less daily experience waiting patiently in line, keeping their voices moderate, or not running than the ps kids do, what does it say when MY *less socialized* kids manage to do all those things better without having to be reminded (although I still do in special situations)? Does this only happen here in the North? It seems like when I was a child kids were expected to have better manners in social and public situations.
My theory is that most other adults 1., believe that this is okay behavior for kids, (even if they deny this fact), and 2., hold a deep seated belief that children cannot behave pleasantly in social situations unless they've somehow been psychologically warped. Weird - I remember once school I taught at held a chapel service. On Sundays, the kids were all over during the service. On Wednesdays, they were as good as pie. Their parents accepted it. The teachers (and nuns!) didn't. I NEVER saw a voiced raised at a child in that school. The behavior was simply not accepted. More and more, I understand why other people don't like their own kids.
yep. I understand too. When certain parents say things like, "I could never stay home and homeschool my kids. I'd go crazy." I think, yep. If I had your kids I'd go crazy too.
I saw examples of this last night trick or treating. Some kids in our very large group of T-r-Ters were running from house to house with no regard to traffic or little kids. When some of the parents tried to get some control, one parent was heard saying, "Yeah, right, it's Halloween, the kids are bound to go crazy. You can't expect them to slow down when there is candy involved". excuse me? I DO expect good behavior regardless of the situation. My children are not mindless animals, they are expected to make good choices. I could not believe this parent wanted to suspend the rules for a night just because it was a special occasion!
They live up to what's expected of them. If you don't expect them to be able to behave, they won't. We went camping recently, and the whole group of us went to church together. My friend's 4yo and 6yo sat the ENTIRE SERVICE with the adults, without anything to color, etc., and they behaved wonderfully. They knew what was expected of them, and the lived up to it. (I also mentioned to them in Mom's pressence afterward what well-behaved children they were; figured reinforcement from someone other than a parent is always helpful, lol!)
In my church, that's the rule, not the exception. From the day children are born, they're in the regular assembly. We have break-out classes, of course, but during the actual worship service, there are no children's areas or babysitters or anything like that. Yes, 1-2 year olds can be expected to throw tantrums when they're tired or hungry and will need to be taken outside for a few minutes, but by the time they're 3, we don't have any issues with behavior. I think the real problem is that parents think their kids will pick up good behaviors at school when they're "old enough to understand" :roll:, and teachers expect the same of parents at home. It's like a game of he said, she said! No one is ever the authority, so the children become the authority. :| When I was a kid, I knew good & well that if I got in trouble at school, I'd get double at home! Schools still paddled first and asked questions later in those days, so if I got 3 licks at school, I knew I'd get 6 licks at home! ... I never got any licks, by the way. :angel:
I still remember a teacher when I was subbing. It was a middle school. The guy came into the Staff Lounge, grinning from ear to ear. He had had a talk with Dad about the son's behavior. Dad said straight out, "You have my permission to spank him." "I'm sorry, but our school has a no-spanking policy." "Then you can tell my son that when he gets home, I WILL be spanking him. He'll get three whacks for me, and an additional three whacks for you." The sad thing is that, today, if a parent were to tell a teacher that, there'd be a good chance the teachers would call Children's Services and report him for child abuse.
Absolutely!!! We were waiting 2 hours at the DMV the other day (me, and the two boys). My boys were very, very well behaved, but at one point, the little guy was being a typical 3 year old, crawling around on the floor, accidentally kicking the elderly lady next to us, etc. I said "what are you doing?", to which he replied in a typical 3 year old volume, "I'm getting back in my chair and sitting right so you won't spank me!" Everyone in the room died laughing, so I joked it off like "Yeah, that's a good idea. Why don't you do that." :lol: I just KNEW someone was going to pitch a fit, but no one did.
First, let me say that IN NO WAY are my children allowed to act like monster's in public! I am pro-spanking, and if a situation warrants it, we will be going to a private area to take care of matters! That being said, I think a lot of times when other adults say, "That's okay." when a child has just acted out, they are talking to the parent in a way that is essentially saying, "Been there, done that, I know that there are times when kids just act out." Personally I have had a child misbehave in public, I have gotten various looks from people, from the "That's okay" to the "You horrible parent, you." Personally, I prefer the adults who are more kind. Actually, one of the first times that we took our children to the church we have been at for 2 years, it was during a service where there was no childcare available (not something we had been used to) and our kids were a little noisy. One of the older ladies mentioned that she was not bothered at all by the noise and in fact she was so happy to hear children's voices (there weren't a whole lot of kids at that point). It made a situation that was really uncomfortable into one that was slightly more bearable.
Apparently I am only one here who has children that don't behave all the time. Or even most of the time. We almost constantly have to get onto our oldest for his volume control when we're out, esp when we are sitting/eating somewhere. As he talks he gets louder and louder. I have not had either in a church service so I have no idea how that would be.
Pecan, the point is you are STILL TRAINING your children. You're reminding him to control his volumn, not just allowing him to go wild. I'm fine with parents doing what they have to do. I wish more would. (BTW, my "little angel" spent over an hour at the kitchen table on Saturday, his chair turned toward the wall because he was mad about having to re-do some schoolwork and was refusing to do it. Finally his dad said "ENOUGH! If you don't get busy, I'll take off my belt and spank you!!!" I can't remember the last time we had to spank ANY of our children, so this really got his attention and he finally did it. But he was being VERY stubborn and rebellious!)
Exactly. It isn't that I think children automatically behave in all situations. They don't! Kids misbehaving don't even bother me when their parents are clearly addressing the situation. My issue is when the parents are ACTIVELY turning their kids into little heathens. We had an experience very similar to Leissa's. We were out trick or treating, my kids were practically mowed down by a seething running mass of kids and parents, and the parents were saying, hurry up! Run! don't be second! in this playful tone like that was half the fun. If my kids had been littler, it would have been a dangerous situation. When my ds was in Karate in 1st grade, there was a little boy there who's father used to yell directions to him over the wall. One particular incident I remember, the boy was running and his father yelled that he was being beaten by Kaitlin (one of the only 2 girls in the class) so run faster!!! This particular child was ALSO the worst bully in my ds's k-3 ps career, and it's hard not to think the father was facilitating that.
This is one thing that I've noticed that in general Homeschooled children do better at. My boys are 7 and 8 and are very active, yet I can put them in a room full of young babies/toddlers and they will play gently and not knock the babies over and they share beautifully. They can also play well with children older than they are as well, and they honestly don't care about age! I find that because PS children spend so much of their time segregated by age, it creates a subconscious preference in the children. Most of the time when I PS children at the local park we don't go because they will not watch out for my 2 year old boy, and he gets knocked over and pushed around! Being separated by age really has no benefit that I can see, because children need to learn to get along with people of all ages.
I think that's very true. I know Phillip is absolutely AWESOME when around younger children...very gentle and patient. Around his older siblings, well, that's a different story, lol!!! And I've also found that this is generally true with hs'ed kids.
When dgs was 4 (he's 6 now), we'd gone to a restaurant for dinner, and he was misbehaving. I warned him twice that if he didn't straighten up, Grandma was going to take him into the restroom and spank him. He didn't, and I did, advising him the whole time (hand on clothed bottom) that I was NOT going to be spoken to like that again, nor was he going to behave like that again! This older lady was washing her hands, and when she turned around, I just knew I was going to hear it about spanking. But instead, she said how nice it was to see a grandma being a grandma - hadn't seen it in a long time, she said. (He has not acted that way again at a restaurant with me!) When dd was little, she had to be in daycare because I was single again and trying to make a living for us. Her day ended up in the play-yard, where she'd just learned to do a flip over the monkeybar... which I had applauded every day that week. But this was a Friday, and I had to get my paycheck to the bank! So I watched once, then insisted in my best karate-instructor voice, "Come, NOW!" Her teacher smiled and said, "It's SO nice to hear a mama who sounds like a mama!" She said she was so tired of those wheedly-voiced moms who pleaded with the kids to please do what they're asked... DD is now 39, so it's been a looooooong time!
