Hey ladies! Hubby and I have been at our current church home for about 7 years now. He is a deacon and is in charge of several areas. I'm a Sunday school teacher, in charge of the Sunday night program and several other small things. Problem is, the church is slowly dying. We are the only family our age that come on a regular basis. There are 2-3 other families around our age that come hit and miss. Our girls are the only consistent ones in their class. Most of the time the 1 yr old is the only one in her class and the 3 yr old only has one other student. We are VERY VERY discouraged with the church and feel like our spiritual needs are not being met and haven't been for a long time. We also worry about our children and their lack of friends. On top of that, there is a small group of about 4-5 families that do ALL of the work. We don't have enough teachers for the sunday school classes and several classes just aren't taught due to lack of teachers/students. Also, the few kids we have, most of them are BRATS! They do not listen to authority figures- even their parents. It just makes everything even more discouraging. Hubby and I have gone around and around on what to do. We aren't at peace with leaving- with us involved with so much it won't be easy and then we worry about what would happen to the congregation if we leave. Who would take our work? We aren't sure if this is a case of "the grass is greener" and if we go somewhere else then we find out that it is just the same. We aren't sure if it is something internally within our family we need to change- an attitude maybe? Or if an external change would help. We are not a peace with staying. We feel like something is missing- again- is this internal and something we need to change within ourselves and our family or is an external change needed. I hope this all makes sense. It has been gong on for about 3 years and we keep getting more and more discouraged. Several core families have moved in the last 3 years due to job transfers and we are the ones picking up their jobs. No one new is moving in that is willing to work. Before all the moves, the church was ok but at least it was moving in a positive direction. Lately, it seems to be in a negative direction. What are your thoughts? Also, what do you feel the purpose of the church is and the reason for attending church? Do churches go through phases like this? Hubby and I are both military brats and have never been with a church home more then a couple years. Please share!
WOw, that's a tough one in your situation. For me, church is about growing your relationship with Christ and fellowship with others. My relationship in Christ would not be as strong as it is today had we not found the church we belong to now. I also believe God wants us to learn more about his Word, and church fosters that learning. Our relationship grows through his taechings. I believe everyone has different needs from of a church as well. Some people need a strong children's ministry, whereas others don't. Your needs may not be someone else's needs. Other people have left our church because we do not meet their needs, and other people have joined because we do meet their needs. In your situation, I would make a list of what needs you have and then consider if those needs are being met at your church or not. I think it's very important to belong to a church that meets your needs and that you are satisfied with, or else you are selling your relationship with God short, IMO. I know change is hard, especially when you have become comfortable, but I also believe God facilitates change for reasons. God will provide, either way...whether it be a better church for you, or different people to take your place if you decide to leave. Or perhaps he will bring along more people to your church to grow it more. Whatever the case, change takes time. Hugs to you, and pray very hard about this. God will move you in the right direction if you ask him to.:love:
Oh, I hear you about the Sunday School!!! I'm the Children's Ministry person. My two younger ones are the only two that you can count on EVERY week; there is another young lady who also comes, but her parents are split up. Her dad and step-mom are great people and are there EVERY week, but sometimes her mom is a pain about "making" her go with them. So she's not always there. Add to that my middle child will be moving OUT of Sunday School next fall; I currently have her sit out once a month to listen to the sermon. (I believe children need to be "trained" to listen to a pastor!) I don't know whether or not you need to leave. That's a decision you can only make after lots of prayer. But I would suggest finding an AWANAS group or something of the sort for your kids. Also, do you have friends from another church? I know women who will attend a small group with a different church, because they're not growing in the church they are attending. I was able to do that about two years ago, and it really made a difference for me! And my friend also invited me on a Ladies Retreat with her church this past spring! It was SO nice!!! Our church went through a very difficult time about a year ago; we are now pulling out of it. Our church has about doubled in the number of people on Saturday night (we don't meet on Sunday mornings...long story!), but many of these are "street" people. (Our church is seen as a missions church in the Inner City.) It's a challenge to encourage these folk to do any more than show up at services! As you say, a few people doing most of the work!
Very hard. I am going through a similar thing with my church. I am not by any means getting what I need spiritualy but dh is happy there. So I do a lot of Bible study on my own. My only advice is to continue to pray about it and go where you feel God leads you.
Jen- I like your idea of the lists of needs. I'll have to talk to hubby about that one! Jackie- How do you fight the burn out? I feel like we are totally burned out and not getting renewed. I'm sure it is common for a lot of the worker bees! Monkey- Thank you. We have been praying and praying and praying and still feel so unsure of what to do!
Getting "in touch" with a group of women helped me with the burnout. My old church went through a difficult time, one it never pulled out of. But the homeschoolers there still "network" together to some extent. They are really a support for me, as is the ladies here. They were the ones who encouraged me to attend a small group, and invited me to the Ladies' Retreat. Our church always has a dinner on Saturday evenings after the service. I think many of the street people come and sit through the service just to get dinner. (The doors are closed at some point, and if you don't attend the service, you don't get dinner!) Anyway, other churches volunteer to come in to prepare and serve the meal. Well, the church I attended the retreat with came. I knew almost EVERYONE. Their kids came to Sunday School. My oldest was the teen helper that week. the "regular" teacher told the kids to "Say your name nice and loud so Rachael can hear and write it down...." Rachael just laughed, and told the teacher the names of all the kids, because she already knew each one of the kids, lol! When we first started there, it was hard on me. I felt that no one understood where I was coming from or anything. A friend told me that I was "in the Wilderness", and how long I spent in the wilderness would in a way be up to me. It would depend on how stubborn I was to learn what it was God wanted to teach me there. A rather hard word, but there was a lot of truth in it. I was thankful for her saying it to me!
The church is supposed to be a place where the body of believers come together to for discipleship and fellowship. Unfortunately, a lot of churches have taken to promoting themselves as places of 'safe fun' for everyone. It's been sad to see churches become so focused on making people feel good about themselves; it's led to congregations that are flaky and unwilling to serve because it amounts to 'work'-- -and that's not fun. My DH and I are also doing quite a load of work at our church. We've noticed a lot of parents don't seem to mind using the children's ministry, but few seem willing to serve in it or come regularly. We simply weren't getting the discipleship we needed. We'd both come from backgrounds heavy in apologetics, and the fluffy studies the church was promoting wasn't doing it for us. So, after talking extensively with our pastor, my DH ended up forming a discipleship committee and started a discipleship study on Sunday evenings. We've had an intensive course on the Old Testament led by a seminary professor and just finished an apologetics course on relativism that came from Stand to Reason [str.org]. That site also has a free online set of courses through their Ambassador Curriculum. We'll be viewing Lee Stroebel's The Case for Christ in early January. Our church isn't big by any means, and the groups that come to the discipleship meetings vary in size [we're talking 6-8 people up to 25 or so], but the discipleship group has been a great thing for us. Serving is an important part of being a Christian---I'd honestly say the key thing. But, all Christians need to see continued spiritual growth, and a church that is unwilling to encourage that is going to shrivel up eventually.
Church is for equipping of the saints. We are to learn how to live our lives to be pleasing to the Lord and encourage one another to do right and to go win people to Jesus. The word is revival and your church can have it! Sunday is the day to be revived for the weeks work in the field...Either being revived by listening to sermons or to be revived by giving of yoursef for the work.
I believe that the purpose of a church is to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, aid the sick, and minister to people about the love of God and Christ. I also think that in modern times, churches have a strong role in the community for fellowship and reaching out hands to those in need. I don't go to a church, for a few reasons. First of all, I haven't found a church in quite a long time that holds the same values and particular religious beliefs as myself. A lot of the ones I have been to seem to hold vanity and superiority more highly than God. I know that this is not the case everywhere, and that it's more of an issue concerning what's available to me. Also, when I didn't find a church that I liked, it allowed me to seek on my own, which for myself personally, has been more enjoyable. It would be great to find somewhere to go where I could fellowship with people more like myself, and I believe that if that is what I am to do, God will put it on my heart. I do hope that you find a resolution for your problem. It must be a very difficult position to be in! I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
I absolutely agree with Dawn. As for whether or not you should change churches, I agree with everyone else who's said this should begin with much prayer. My church went through a major slump a few years ago, it was a very hard time and we are just in the last year or so seeing things heading in the right direction again. In our case the the Word was not being preached in the fullness we had grown to need. I think someone else mentioned this, but after eating meat you will not be satisfied with milk. That pastor left and our original one came back, it took awhile to get everyone pulling in the same direction but now we are in an awesome revival. Lisa
There's different connotations to the word CHURCH. Yes, I agree with Flower that the purpose of the CHURCH (universal) is to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc. I feel that the primary purpose of the CHURCH (local or any individual congregation) is to equipe believers. It's goal should NOT be becoming "seeker friendly" in its service, or spending 90% of its time on evangelism. It should be disciipling, training, and equiping BELIEVERS to go out and do that. The sermons need to be geared primarily to Believers. When the local congregations do that, then the members will be out feeding the hungry, etc.
I go to a small church. My kids and the pastor's kids are the only consistent kids in Sunday school. All or most of the other kids are outreach van kids. Meaning, their parents never come and they are ill behaved a lot of the time. However, through love and consisitent work even the most ill behaved kids are acting pretty good. There are only two families at my church with kids even close to my kids' ages. There are several couples around my dh's and my age though. wEll, they are probably 10 years younger to 10 years older. All of use seem to be in different seasons of your lives so that sometimes makes fellowship difficult. However, I LOVE the people at my church very much. They are truly my family. However, things were not always this rosey. Our church went through a split a few years ago. It seemed no one was left. My kids lost all their friends from chruch. I lost friends from church. It was rough. However, my dh and I knew that it was not our time to leave and we had to stay and see this through. Eventually, the Lord allowed our church to merge with another and now we are doing well. We are still small and their are still not alot of kids but there is a sweet spirit at the church. Besides, that this is where God wants us. There are times I feel like the grass is greener at a bigger church but we stay because God wants us to. Church is about where God wants you to be not where you want you to be. I say pray about where God wants you. Right now you are confused and making a decision from that place will not lead you to where God wants you. God may want you at that church. God may not. Pray with your dh and allow God to make this decision. Allow me to share some scripture with you on a study done on the importance of church. You see I disagree with taking a list of your expectations and comparing it to a church. My mother had tried this many times and it never works. I have tried it and it never works. That is unless your list is not of flesh but of what God considers a church to be. I know the most popular way to choose a church is by the kid's ministries but I feel that is a mistake. Acts 2:41-47, explains the function of the local church. 1. The teaching of the Word of God. 2. Fellowship with other believers. 3. Prayer 4. The observance of the two ordinances of the church: baptism and the Lord's supper. 5. To be a testimony of God's grace and power. 6. For mutual assistance and ministry. 7. To reach out inot the community. 8. To glorify and praise God...the most important. How does one find a local chruch: 1. PRAY about it! James 1:5 2. Observe the qualities of a particular church and compare them with the biblical requirements of a proper church. a. is there evidence of soul winning? Matthew 7:20, Acts 2:47 b. Do they believe and teach the Bible as the Word of God and the infallible guide for life? Titus 1:9 c. Is there memebership encouraged to read and study the Bible as much as the leadership? Acts 17: 10-12 d. Do they minister to the spiritual needs of people? Acts 6:1 e. Do they send out and support missionaries? Acts 13:1-3 You need to understand the biblical requirements of a church before deciding on leaving or finding a new church. I encourage you to read the verses and pray about this BEFORE making any decisions. You never know what God wants for you. Your family could be the family to build up the church. Or it could be your family's time to go. Find out what God wants and follow him. Sorry for such a long post. I just feel that my opinion is meaningless without the context of scripture in an area so important to our lives. :love:
I would love to stop going to church altogether and instead get either alone of with another close family do indepth Bible studies. Every church I have ever been to eventually gets all caught up in the business aspect of things. The one I am at now doesn't preach salvation like I believe they should. I think sometimes pastors don't want to offend anyone so they take the easy way out and don't preach biblical truths. Sermons get watered down and people don't come to know Jesus as they should or could. I have seriously thought of pickin gup some Bible study materials and dh and I and th ekids having our own study and worship time right in our living room.
I understand what you are saying Tiffany. Well...from what you said. My church is very hard preaching and no holds barred on salvation. It isn't brimstone and fire...but truth all the way. However, we are supposed to be part of a local church. Our work of the Lord is to be done through our church. I think that maybe you should seek a church that supports biblical truths. Just a thought. I have often wanted to have my own little church service. lol. However, I think one will end up isolated and discouraged in the end. JMO.
I agree with Ava, this is a situation where I would look for a different church. If the whole Bible isn't being preached then in my opinion it's not really church.... it's a social club. Lisa
Oh ladies I want to go to a different church. It is my husband who doesn't want to change churches. I'd be gone in a heartbeat if he would give the okay.
Ava- How did you guys know you were to stay? Hubby and I have been praying on it and asking God for His will in this matter. We just aren't clear what His will is. We are not at peace with leaving but at the same time we are not at peace with staying. Does that make sense?
Absolutely it makes sense. So my advice would be to wait. I think God will make it clear when it's time to go. Keep in mind that the Children of Israel didn't move in the wilderness until the Cloud moved BEFORE them. So wait for the cloud to move. Which doesn't mean you can't continue praying about it! Tiffany, I would say that you need to be patient with where you are. Yes, I know that's difficult! Keep praying about how frustrated you are there, that God would either bring you out of that church, or He would change your heart toward it. Then you let God tell your husband when it's time to go. (Yes, I know! Guys can be lazy about such things!!!)
Ava, you pretty much hit the nail on the head, IMO. When I said that the church's purpose should be to feed the hungry, etc.. there are a few ways it can be read.. but I speak in my own twiggybumbisms much of the time. I am hungry.. not for food but seeking Truth. I am naked.. not without clothes, rather volunerable to a cold world. I absolutely agree with Jackie as well that a church should spend a lot of time strengthening it's members in the Word. I just feel that if you are already there, you can recognize someone else's need for the Word who may not end up in a pew. I was raised by a former missionary, and was raised that helping others is of the utmost importance, and that's probably why I have my opinion. And lastly, while I believe fellowship with others of your beliefs is a very special blessing, and very important, I cannot seek fellowship with God when I am surrounded by hypocrites. And, as a reminder from my first post, I am speaking from my personal experiences only... not about church in general. As a matter of fact, I was in love with the church I grew up in. It was small, and the people were absolutely wonderful, very strong in the Word and not high fashion, etc. They were very supportive, and were always there for me. That church, unfortunately, wasn't able to support its pastor and congregation. The physical location moved, and many new followers joined, but I eventually left the area. I have not found anything to compare since, and God has not put it on my heart to join any other since. I hope one day he does.
