I'd prefer my 2yo to be quoting Meatloaf than Lady Gaga. There's a lot of cuss words in Australia that actually double as terms of endearment. I won't type them here in the interest of keeping the forum clean, but you know that word used years ago to describe a child born illegitimately that didn't know it's father? Well if you call someone a complete and utter one of those, generally you're referring to a very close friend, but your worst enemy you would describe as just a bit of one of those!
Well, it's all in the context, isn't it? :love: It's a funny story about parenting, so of course I wouldn't tell it to my ten year olds. Not only are we instructed to not discuss our own lives and experiences, but it simply wouldn't be relevant. And we've got more than enough on our plates with the curriculum. Our topics tend to be along the lines of "Why do girls get the HPV shot at school and not boys?", and "How old do you have to be to get married?", and the most recent question from a boy - "What is rape?" But I do think our program has helped to create a culture of open communication in our church - we talk freely about anything and everything, and yes, there are disagreements, but just like on this board, we try to resolve them in the spirit of love.
:lol: Actually, I was just thinking that one of the first things any child here learns is that English swearing is mostly scatological or sexual, while the French frequently use words for the various items of the church, such as "Chalice", "Tabernacle" and "the Host". But then Trudeau is famous for his one-fingered salute. And another of our prime ministers - Jean Chretien - has claimed he once made the Queen laugh by uttering a swear word during a ceremony. And then there's the "Secret Mulroney Tapes!" Boy, could he turn the air blue. :shock: But I love this quote from the producer of a documentary on Prime Minister Mulroney, about his cursing, "He uses it to punctuate certain sentences here and there. I do that. . . . It's just sort of normal talk."
I have been reading through this lively thread and it is interesting. I write rather formally because I was taught, and I believed, that the use of proper English is the trademark of a highly educated person (and I wanted to appear, at least, highly educated although my education lacked quite a bit). I remember that I used "ain't" often as a child, but later purposely broke the habit because of the aforementioned reason. "Ain't" is not used in our speech in my family, so hopefully, my daughter will not pick it up. While I might enjoy a book with the word "ain't" in a Twain book, I also consider the source. Twain had a strange relationship with language, particularly in its written form. Here are some of his quotes clearly indicating his aversion to spelling: http://www.twainquotes.com/Spelling.html I appreciate Twain's literary works, but I also would not see anything he wrote as a standard worth being modeled in this regard. On the other hand, I, personally, would not dump a spelling curriculum for having "ain't" in it, if that was the only thing that bothered me about it. I would simply skip over it.
Meg: We just have different ideas. In the end, that doesn't matter. I think having a place for kids to hear topics like you mentioned from a biblical perspective can be valuable....depending on how it's taught. You have a good heart...I'm sure you strive to serve them well. Lindina: I agree with the saying words in the mirror thing. lol Ya know, words loose their power or have power depending on what you are talking about. For instance, if I called my kid "stupid" every day...you would all have a problem with that. You mean, after saying it 100 times, it doesn't loose power over my kid? Or do you think it has great power? What about saying wonderful kind things? Words have the power to hold one in bondage or free them. Words have the power to inspire love or hate. We should never doubt the power of words. Seeking: I agree with you on the Twain thing. I was surprised it was mentioned at all. Often literature reflects a time period or culture or even the author's mentality. That doesn't always make it proper. So, I suppose we should ask if only proper speech should be in a spelling curriculum. Well, I would either skip over it as a spelling word but tell my kids about it. However, my kids never say "ain't". That's not to say they do not use other words I'm not proud of...like stupid. UGH. Or my daughter how called my son an idiot. I almost wished she said, "ain't". Oh well...she isn't using that word anymore.
I've never heard that about French, using terms from church. Meg, I think it's totally funny that the adults I've encountered who have moved here from a different country and are learning American by immersion (on the street, interacting with the society at large), the first thing they pick up is the swear words! Then they get into a social situation where a politer term is definitely needed, and all they have is this swear word, and they know they shouldn't say it, but it's all they have! Well, not just here, but to any adult moving to any other country, without benefit of language lessons to get started with. I also think it would be totally odd to live in a country where the worst thing you can call somebody is "dog" or "pig" or if something stronger is needed, "pig-dog". How about our own vice-prez, speaking to the prez the day he signed the health care bill - "This is a big ........ deal!" within inches of live mics, and apparently expecting it was a "private conversation"!
That's exactly the reason we talk about words for body parts with our Sex Ed kids! They frequently only know the slang - not the polite phrases. And sometimes we'll get a kid who thinks the medical term is the dirty word, and that the curse word is the acceptable one! At ten they're often very unclear on the difference, and you've got to get it all straightened out before you can even begin to talk to them about sex.
I think the point we were trying to make is that a swear word, of itself, is just a word. For it to have power it needs context, tone and intent. Calling some one a swear word is generally considered poor taste and offensive. (There are some instances where inappropriate words are used as terms of endearments between people who generally have a close enough relationship for it to be endearing/comical rather than offensive or abusive.) Within the context of the thread, there was an objection about calling a person a dunce. The word was used in a negative manner. This person then wondered why Dunce was pounced on and not the words in the Meatloaf quote. My reasoning would be that the Meatloaf quote, whilst containing words considered more profane than Dunce, they weren't used in a negative connotation like Dunce was. Words have power yes, but only when we prescribe an intention, tone and context to them, otherwise, they are just words. (NB: I am not meaning to make anybody feel bad for the way in which they use/used their words. I was just illustrating a point.)
I get your point, Belle...makes sense. Meg: your post about using real terms for body parts...makes sense and I agree. If the child is learning incorrectly, then an open discussion in safe environment is merited.
I think this whole debate is sad for two reasons. First, it is NEVER EVER okay to use God's name in vain. It is the ultimate 'negative connotation'! I could be wrong, but isn't that one of the Commandments-don't use His name in vain?? All the Christians on this board-the ladies I have known for years to be Christians- why are you all okay with this?? I'm all for inclusiveness, but there are some things that just should not be okay. To try and justify it by saying I was being negative with the word dunce is almost ridiculous. Second, the lady that wrote Spelling Power doesn't give a rat's butt that I called her a dunce for putting ain't in her curriculum! I'm a nobody, a peon, and my opinon doesn't mean beans to this lady. She will continue to earn her living despite my discontent with her choice. i'm actually sorry I started this thread, because it took a wild turn I wasn't expecting.
First, it is NEVER EVER okay to use God's name in vain. It is the ultimate 'negative connotation'! I could be wrong, but isn't that one of the Commandments-don't use His name in vain?? All the Christians on this board-the ladies I have known for years to be Christians- why are you all okay with this?? I definitely am not okay with that.
Firstly, This topic is fabulous. There's no need to get upset just because we don't all agree with you that ain't ain't a word. Secondly, I repeat, it's about context. No one is saying using the Lords name in vain is okay. And I wasn't pouncing on YOU. Up until now I haven't even given my opinion on the name calling, I was only offering an explanation for the imbalance you perceived between the use of the word dunce and the use of the word God in a song quote. Whether the woman you called a dunce cares or not isn't the issue either. It was the way in which you used the word and the way Meg used hers. She wasn't calling anybody a name, she wasn't actually using the Lords name in vain herself, she was simply telling a story. You weren't. You were calling a woman a name over a word you objected (quite emphatically) to in a spelling program that you as the parent have control over giving. You don't have to teach the word. But the word itself has merit. FTR I wouldn't have taught it either, but I'm not about to take it personally that it exists in a list and call the curriculum writer a dunce for doing so, I would simply omit it at my own discretion. I happen to like the word Dunce. Had Meg actually taken the Lords name in vain it would have been a different story. Contextually, intentionally and tonally, she did no such thing. And if you want to talk about being a good Christian woman, how is calling someone names because you disagree with them Christian like?
The kids and I were over my mother's house today, chatting, when the topic of spelling came up. Since it seemed relevant, I told her about this debate. She replied, "Why I used 'ain't' in an e-mail just the other day. It's spelled A-apostrophe-I-N-T." "Um, mom, it's not. It's A-I-N-apostrophe-T. It's an old contraction of 'am not' dating back to the 1700's." "Oh," she said. "Well, in that case it could also be a contraction of 'ain', which was also a word back then... except that would put the apostrophe even further along in the word. Hmm... I'm sure I spelled it right! I'll have to check my Funk & Wagnall's." The hilarious thing about this whole conversation is that my mother is a world-renowned scholar, writer of many books now used as texts in university, a recognized expert in her field (humanities), and has two masters and a doctorate under her belt. She's the most over-educated person I know. And yet, she can't spell "ain't". Too bad it wasn't in her elementary school spelling curriculum, eh?
*snicker* I had to giggle at Funk & Wagnall's. My mother was forever telling us kids to go look it up in our Funk & Wagnall's. When we were little, we thought she was swearing at us, until we later realised that the dictionary in the study without a cover was a Funk & Wagnall's dictionary!!
I've been trying, for the most part, to stay out of the debate portion of this thread. But this really bites my butt. Are you honestly saying that it's ok to call someone a name if it doens't affect them monetarily or if they don't know about it or if they just don't care?! So is it ok to call your child a moron behind closed doors because they don't know about it? Is it ok to call your pastor an idiot because he'll continue preaching no matter if you think he's an idiot or not? Is it ok to call your grocery clerk a jerk because it doesn't affect her paycheck?
