State police take children from parents

Discussion in 'Homeschooling in the News' started by QueenGeek, Apr 1, 2007.

  1. QueenGeek

    QueenGeek New Member

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    This article was being discussed on a Christian forum I frequent, where there are some homeschoolers. I thought you might be interested in this.

    http://www.afa.net/germanhomeschool.htm

    Note: I don't know where the AFA got their info on the reported incidents.
     
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  3. momothem

    momothem New Member

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    That is SO scary.
    I will now sit and count my blessings!!
     
  4. Hoosier Mama

    Hoosier Mama New Member

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    OH my gosh....I can't even imagine how horrible that would be. Momothem...you are right....we need to count our blessings!
     
  5. sloan127

    sloan127 Active Member

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    I read that and another article about a different family in the same situation on the HSLDA updates I get in my email. It is so sad that those children are being put through all this. Beth
     
  6. Faith

    Faith New Member

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    Blessings counted here also.

    Whatever happened to freedom of choice.
     
  7. QueenGeek

    QueenGeek New Member

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    Good question. <soapbox> I think freedom of choice disappeared when a small group of people became discontent to just do things their way and mind their own business. Instead, they want to meddle in everyone else's business. </soapbox>

    I don't homeschool, but I fully support those who do and want the right to do so if I so choose (which I well may, depending on how the first year of public high school goes... I've already broached the subject with DH, and he's fully supportive.)
     
  8. sloan127

    sloan127 Active Member

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    I didn't read the whole article from the first post but I think it is the same one I saw. In Germany homeschooling is against the law. So here is my question for all of us... would you still homeschool your children if it was against the law where you live?
     
  9. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Actually, this question came up before, I think it was over another article on the same young lady. I asked Carl, and he said YES! If he felt that was what God was calling us to do, we need to be obedient to God over the government. And I honestly believe that someday it WILL come to that in this country. The family has appealed to the European Court, and they ruled AGAINST the family, saying that the government has the right to stop "counter culotures" in their society, or some such. And that "right" is greater than the parents' rights over their children, or freedom of religion. I believe that our government will eventually adopt the "world wide" system, and that this will trump our Consitution.
     
  10. sloan127

    sloan127 Active Member

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    How scary that sounds Jackie. I honestly don't know what we would do. Because we adopted the last four and I know the county is against homeschooling foster children, ( which our four were before we adopted them ) I would be a little afraid of what would happen if the laws were changed. We would be in a tough spot and I don't think I am strong enough to risk losing my girls. I just pray it never comes to that. I know I am sounding weak here but I am just being honest. I have really thought about it since reading about the German families. Beth
     
  11. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    Beth, what I say is from a very secure position. We are NOT in that situation, and we don't know if we ever will be. It's easy to say I'd make a tough stand when I don't HAVE to. But when the rubber meets the road, I honestly can't say FOR SURE what I'd do!
     
  12. becky

    becky New Member

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    These parents knew it was illegal to homeschool, so why did they? Where did it get them? What dangers might the kids be exposed to now? I feel for the kids, but those parents made the wrong choice.
     
  13. Deena

    Deena New Member

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    I'll have to disagree on that one Becky! God said it's not going to be easy..."they will persecute you for My sake..." to do the right thing. If they felt convicted to homeschool, then it would have been more wrong for them NOT to homeschool!

    Christians have been persecuted for centuries. Why? Because they wouldn't give up their faith and therefore give the government authority over them. We are to follow the laws and rules of our land, UNLESS it goes against what God says. Then we have to take our stand. A lot of what goes on in schools, in many nations, is brain-washing stuff, much of it says government first, self second, and others and family come far down the list.

    In fact, that kind of thing happened here in America not all that long ago! We are blessed that our laws have changed now. But it was because people chose to homeschool anyway, and fight the system, because it was unjust! They got put in prison, their kids were taken away, they got drug to court over and over. If they hadn't have persevered, we may not have the freedom to homeschool that we do now!

    Okay, I'm all done. ;)
     
  14. Jackie

    Jackie Active Member

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    No, Becky, I don't feel these parents made the wrong choice. Yes, they chose to break the law. But YOU are homeschooling today because there were those who dared to break the law in this country some thirty years ago. We have the freedom to homeschool because of what they did. Becky, they are responsible to God first. THEY are the only ones able to decide if their decision was right or not, not you. There are families in Germany that are actually living in hiding in other countries because they feel they have the God-given right to raise up their children without the government telling them how to. And they live in fear that they might be expedited back to Germany. But they also feel that they need to take this stand.
     
  15. ChelC

    ChelC New Member

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    Well, here's the thought provoking question of the day for you. What is the law, in the U.S. is the law what is constitutionally correct or is it whatever the majority (or some judge) decides it to be?

    Governments have no rights. Rights come from God, not from government. Non beings like government can have no rights. Governments are instituted by people to protect their rights!

    This is where it gets fuzzy. I believe in obeying the law, but I also consider it a duty to uphold the constitutional principles our nation was founded upon. Those on the bench do not have the right to create law, but simply to interpret the constitution. When the constitution is silent, they must likewise remain silent, and details may be added in through legislation which the bench can then decide the constitutionality of. Checks and balances.....

    This is why it's sooooo scary to me that most people don't even understand the constitution, including most of the elected reps who raise their arm to the square and swear to defend it.

    Rant off. Sorry.
     
  16. becky

    becky New Member

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    To me, these parents were German. They knew the law. They broke it and lost their kids. What did they win? I don't see what they won. In fact, is it not in the Bible that we are to obey the laws of our homeland? I forget the verse, but it's in there.
     
  17. Deena

    Deena New Member

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    I mentioned that in my message Becky, Yes, obey the laws of the land, HOWEVER, if they go against God's law, you MUST choose God's law over human law!

    There's a text that Jesus said, "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars, and unto God the things that are God's. That's in Mathew 22:21.
     
  18. Emma's#1fan

    Emma's#1fan Active Member

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    Becky, are you referring to Romans 13:1-7?
    "1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."

    Now lets read Acts 5:27-29.
    Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 28"We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name," he said. "Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood."
    29Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!"

    So we are to obey the law of the land, as Deena stated.
    But when we are told to not do something that God is clearly directing us to do, then we should obey God not the law.
    For someone like me, who homeschools for Godly reasons, I would have to break the law if I was ever told not to homeschool my children. I am called to raise my child in Christ, in all things. This incudes her education.
    Patty
     
  19. becky

    becky New Member

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    Patty, I forget the verse! I'm in gel mode right now, and I did reread Deena's post and saw she already mentioned obeying the laws of the land.

    These parents lost big time. It makes me shudder to think who might have their kids. The Bible tells us to raise our children in Christ, but I don't see that as a command to homeschool. I believe there were other things these parents could have done, that could have kept them from losing their kids!What gets proved by losing your kids? I just don't see it..
     
  20. Emma's#1fan

    Emma's#1fan Active Member

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    You are correct in saying it isn't a command to homeschool. It is a command to obey God above all.
    For my family, sending Ems to a public school to be taught by godless teachers for many hours a day, is not part of God's plan. For at least 6-7 hours a day, she would be taught that many sinful behaviors are normal and she would also be taught that their is no truth and no God. She would also be taught what is contrary to our belief system. To me, this is willingly denying Christ. I am allowing my child's mind to be perverted.
    Once my pastor asked the church, if Christianity became illegal and we were told not to share the message of Christ, would we obey because of the risk of being put in jail or executed? If it meant we would be thrown in prison and our children would be raised elsewhere, would we deny Christ by our words and lifestyle? My child is God's before she is mine.
    It is a powerful question.
    Patty
     
  21. Deena

    Deena New Member

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    Pretty much everybody was homeschooled back then, so they didn't need to write about it in the Bible I guess! :)

    But there are texts that talk about raising your child in the way he should go, which, imho, means God's way. Not everyone feels the same callings as I might or you might! These parents made a decision to homeschool because they didn't want their child turned against their own family (certainly NOT Godly!), and they wanted to teach their children about God (not allowed!). In the world's eyes, you're right, these parents lost BIG time! But in God's eyes, these parents were willing to follow God no matter what! Like Abraham---God wanted Abraham to follow God, even if it meant losing his own son! You are not convicted that this is a moral or Godly issue, so it wouldn't be the same for you. But it seems that these parents thought it was their Godly, moral and righteous duty to homeschool their children, so it was imperative that they do what they felt God led them to do! I'm sure God will work something out. We, as Christians, need to remember that our reward isn't of this world, it's with God, in Heaven! It may look like we lose here, but we're winning in God's eyes, and Heaven IS our reward!
     

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