This is info. I found on another website. I appreciated what TT did for my ds15 and dd12 a couple of years ago, but I DO think this is wrong! I wish they'd just label it the right way! Wouldn't this be unethical? A poster responding: I think this should be displayed somewhere so parents know! Another lady says Saxon is the same way. I DO know that my dd did Saxon 76 in 4th grade, and TT Pre-Algebra in 5th and did just fine with them. Knowing she is NOT gifted in the math area, though she does well, I am not surprised by this, I just don't understand it! This means that in 4th grade she really did 5th/6th grade math, and in 5th grade did 7th grade math. I don't really care about THAT, I just don't like that they sell it as Algebra 1 & Algebra 2, and then Pre-Calculus, when it's really Algebra 1 and Algebra 2. So, if you were to buy it new, you're paying $370 for Algebra 1! Any thoughts?
I had actually heard this - not directly from the company - but from others, even here. I do still find the company very up front - letting their software be sold 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc...yet just give new authorization codes to load. I've found, also, that they hold their value very well to be able to sell on places like ebay, etc. Even on homeschoolclassifieds, folks are asking (and getting) close to new prices on used disks. THAT amazes me. Personally, I need my daughter to be finished a "full algebra" by 9th grade in order to take some local science classes that use the Apologia curricula. She just started TT 5 - but since they have only 114-120 lessons in each level, I was hopping to do TT5, TT6 and TT7 by the time she finished 6th grade (if we just keep going through the summers with math we should be able to do that). Then I'll have her do Pre-algebra and algebra 1 in 7th grade - and hopefully REDO another companies algebra in 8th grade. That might sound crazy, but she's REALLY liking the method of the TT. I have to say that the cost really doesn't bother me since they are so free about reusing. I look at it as an investment that I'll use with all three of my children and therefore, it will pay for itself AND possibly even still be resellable (depending on changes). I hope this makes sense. I do understand you're complaint, though.
I had Carl read that, as he's the "math person" in this house! I wasn't aware of that. But regardless, we're sticking with TT. It's been a great match for Rachael. As far as Apologia goes, the first book with a math prerequisite is Chemistry, and it's saying you need Algebra 1. There is none needed for Biology. I know Rachael did Algebra 1 other than TT in 7 with General Science, TT Geometry in 8 with Physical Science, TT Alg. 2 last year in 9 with Biology, and TT Pre-Cal this year with Chemistry. I will add that this year, she had a little difficulty with the first chapter of both Pre-Cal AND Chemistry. With TT, she has always just read the book. When it came time to take the first test, she didn't want to because she wasn't comfortable with the material. So I told her to go back through the whole chapter a second time, this time listening to the lectures. That's what she has been doing, and she's doing much better. My goal is for her to actually LEARN the material, not just get through the book and take a test, lol! With the Chemistry, she will be taking Chem Lab at the Co-op starting next Tuesday (the teacher wanted them to do the first chapter on their own prior to the first class), and she'll be able to ask questions then!
JACKIE!!! Thank you!!!! The woman that holds the Apolgia classes in our area starts with the 2 General Science books. (one is Physical and one is General, right??? for 7th, 8th gradish?). she rotates years...This year she's doing the Physical one for 7th & 8th Graders - so by the time my oldest is in 7th grade, she'll be doing the Physical one again (she'll do the General Science one NEXT year). Then she does Bio, Chem After that...she teaches the others, but it depends on the track the child decides to take - if the person is going to be a science major she pushes the Physics, if they are not, she goes with the Human Anatomy - and then one year is the Astronomy...can't remember where that fits...I think it's an alternate for them as well...but not sure. It's good to know about the TT. Based on the table of contents for each the 5, 6 and 7...I THINK my daughter can handle just to keep going - this year we took off almost 4 months from school - I will NOT make that mistake again from Math...Math will be a lifetime thing for us! LOL Too much lost this summer!!! For both my kids. THANK YOU though, for your insights into the Apologia - I find that so helpful!!!
Krista, I agree with all that, that's why I appreciated TT too, and would recommend it to others. The only thing I had the problem with is that they put one number on the mathbook, when it really isn't that. Even with the resale value, some people would struggle to afford it initially. If they thought they were getting Algebra 1 & 2, and were only getting Algebra 1, then it's not right, and may cause someone who doesn't continue through all of the TT program some problems! If you go all the way through TT's books, you'll get all that any other curriculum offers, as far as I have heard. I think TT sooo fits some kids, like Rachael, and SHOULD be used because it works for them! I just want them to put the true levels on their books! Here's another post I saw answering the first one:
I see what you're saying. I agree with that, that maybe on their website they should say something about that. I'm guessing they feel that if they prep for ACT and SAT's that it would satisfy what would be necessary. hmmmmm....
See, now I am very confused as to what credit Rachael should have. I THOUGHT she had Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2. And I planned on giving her one credit this year for Pre-Cal. That's what the classes were called, so I figured that's what they were. Plus, she worked a full year in all of them!
I would ask those of you who have completed the TT programs and have had your kids tested, how do they test on the program? Personally, if people have a beef with the money issue, then they have to decide to either pay their price or not. TT has decided what they think their product is worth and it is up to the parents to decide if that matches their idea of what it is worth. I can't say either way - I like the FORMAT of TT and I think the math is good enough, but there are other up and coming (similiar, but not homeschool specific) products that they (TT) should take into account. Right now they have the market cornered, but honestly I think their upper levels can use some work. Perhaps it is because they made those first, a while back, and since then they have developed the younger levels that are structured differently, people notice the differences right away as they move up the levels. At any rate, it is a good product and I think it is worth the price, even if you have to complete the entire series to be considered ready for calculus in freshman year college.
Jackie, I would give ther credit you originally felt should be given. If she completed the series, she deserves the credit. Now, if she stopped in Algebra I, then I could see hesitating on what credit to give, but honestly, just because TT breaks down the years a bit differently doesn't mean they are doing anything wrong, it just means that you have to pay more for the same material. And like I said, you have to weigh if that is worth it to you personally (though you guys are done now!) to get the same material delivered in a unique way.
I definitely feel it's worth the cost! It means she is doing her math totally independent, which is very good, as she's way beyond me. Math was never my strong area, though I did very well in Geometry. Carl is a high school math teacher, but after coming home from teaching all day, he doesn't want to do it here, too. And I sure can't blame him for that! He IS available if she has problems, but since she started TT, that is very rare. I DID tell him that she was having a bit of difficulty with the first chapter, and that he really needs to keep her aware that he IS willing to help if she's gone over it several times and is still confused.
Well, there you go! She seems to be doing fine so what other people may think about the program is mute. I agree with you too, not too many kids can work independantly in upper level math, so that alone says something for the method they use.
I have a question then - or maybe just need some advice. We are in CA and working with a public charter. Ds is in 7th and doing TT pre algebra. No worries. But next year is going to be algebra and I want him to get HS credit for it. Does that mean I should not use TT - he won't meet the requirements for HS algebra? Please let me know. And if anyone has any recommendations of what else to use after TT to get that credit, or how to use the TT program to meet all that credit, that would be so helpful! Thanks!
Why don't you ask the charter about it, Gwenny? They may have come up with this before, and perhaps they're quite comfortable with the program as it is, or can make suggestions of other curriculum to use in its place.
The money issue or whether it's a good product or not is not the real problem with me, as you can see by what I wrote earlier. The reason I brought it up is the credits earned--really they are spending 1 1/2 years on Algebra 1 and 1 1/2 years on Algebra 2, by going through 3 years of TT maths, if what they, themselves, say is true. Right? So my concern is exactly what Jackie asked: How do you give credit for going through pre-cal with TT, if it's only REALLY Algebra 2 level? And a child doing so well in math, as Rachael is, COULD be going through higher math (if she and her mom wanted to for the credit, and to have it on her transcript for college), if the material in the TT books was actually the levels they say they are! KWIM? I haven't heard anything but good about their Geometry level. But, if the Pre-Cal for TT is actually Algebra 2, then next year, would Rachael (or any other student) take Pre-Cal by another company that has "real" Pre-Cal? These are the issues I'm wondering, since I haven't thrown TT out the window of possibility for my dd to use again. I guess you'd have to see what the next programs include to know what to do next. What are you planning on Rachael doing next year, Jackie?
Carl and I have discussed that, Deena. Maybe some business math or accounting, some Trig, or statistics. Then again, does she really NEED any math beyond Pre-Cal unless she's going into a math/science/engineering field? I think we'll worry about that about 6 months from now!
I agree with Jackie (Deena), does she need more? I guess if you are uncomfortable with giving her all the credits, then go for a statistics class, or enroll her in a community college calculus course! (I bet she would do fine) And if you do that, they will test her and see if she is where she should be, and that is free. :wink: Maybe I am not with it, becasue I never took all this math in high school, I only took it in college, but I aways thought that taking algebra 2 got a kid ready to take pre-calc for freshman college and taking pre-calc in high school got them to calculus right away?
I feel like you're misunderstanding me. I'm NOT saying anyone has to have math past pre-cal. I'm looking toward the direction to head for my dd, so am sharing what I find, and asking what others are doing. "I agree with Jackie (Deena)" sounds like you are disagreeing with me.....but I haven't taken any stands, just throwing out ideas and questions. Maybe you're not, either way, I'm not trying to be disagreeable, I was just sharing this info. and wondering what others plans are....
Deena, I love teaching text so much and my girls love it too. I will shop for deals and stay with it. Unless I am lead another direction. I really don't know what way to go right now. They are going through all these tt class so fast I don't see a problem. But, that is just me.
hey just a side point here, I am finding, while going through MUS and SOS alg1,, geo, and alg2 that every brand of math is different in its set up. We are combining two currics into one this year to help the students really get it and get better understanding in thier high school maths. MY ds graduated from this school but did his maths with BJU math in another school, he tested high enough to get to the last MAth in college level. IF that helps any, he wetn through alg2 with BjU maths. I am going brain thick with maths the past two weeks as I have been the one to set the lessons up for dd and her fellow students. I am finding that what is in one text is not in the other brands texts in the same order or in the same depth, but there are other areas that are deeper, so it all pans out kwim? I think that the real test is in what they are learning. Check out scopes and sequences you can find them on most maths out there if you google it and line them up see what they actually need to know, all that sine and cosine and exponential addition and subtractiion and mutiplication helps them in sciences and then again in College courses. IF he did not get the stuff in Alg 2 he would nto be able to get the stuff in College course math either. So, while going through this thread I kept thinking of how the two I am working with cover about the same stuff but vary a bit and overlap thier own brands next level, I think that is thier ways of keeping us buying thier product after all.
